LincolnKennedy

I think Kroger has a lease on the UP property until 2027, so it will be pretty tough to break. The best way to get a streetcar to reconnect through Vine will be to 1) show Kroger how much traffic it would generate by pointing to the success of Phase 1, and 2) working with Kroger to come up with a more urban-friendly grocery store model. It's been done in NYC, DC and Atlanta (by Kroger in ATL). There's no reason it can't work here. They probably get a lot of value out of the UP location because it always seems packed and it still looks like crap. I think that without a doubt, an extention from DeSales Corner past O'Bryonville to Edwards and Madison, thence through HP Square, down Linwood to MtL Square, down Delta to Columbia Square is the preferred eastern route for the Streetcar. You connect four historic business districts (stretching that definition a bit for Columbia Square, but still) and TWO potential ROW's (Oasis on Eastern and Wasson on Madison & Edwards) that are just begging for light rail in the future.

^Wow, those Short Vine redevelopments on the 2600 block don't have any qualms about tearing down entire blocks to build something that already exists in the general vicinity. It's almost like they'd prefer to simply move UC to a cornfield in Liberty Township. Let's hope that development never happens.

Oh yeah, we'll I pissed on the Bayeux Tapestry. Beat that.

^Or if some apartment fire ends up closing down both Eastern Avenue and Columbia Parkway at the same time, which I remember happening last year. Since the fire was north of Findlay St., and the route is yet to be determined, and there's a good chance that the route will connect Elm/Race with uptown via Findlay, in the alternate universe where the streetcar was built and operation before this fire there is a good chance it wouldn't have made a difference. Also, it rains donuts in this reality.

Whoops. This report: http://www.hamiltoncountyohio.gov/hcrpc/partner/gcep/pdf/PROJECT_REPORT_GCEP_Phase_1_071214.pdf

^Too much has been made of the benefits of overlapping services. This report details a lot of good things that can be done, but the reality is that a lot of people live where they do so they don't have to pay as much for public programs that they can opt out of. What's more important is that in Washington, bureaucratic policy changes are made so that money goes to places were it is actually needed and that regulation isn't so tight as to disallow local flexibility when things are implemented. Locally it is key that the City of Cincinnati become again the economic driver of the region. City/County consolidation will happen when the City is wealthy and willing to take in the crappy parts of the County rather than expecting the more populous County to combine with what they might believe to be a cesspool of a City. The Streetcar is a major tool toward this turnover.

^This is really good news, especially the bureaucratic change. Oftentimes it is these changes that seem so minute that actually have the biggest effect. Definitely. It's amusing to me that people constantly say how expensive it is to build a subway tunnel nowadays, that it is a dealbreaker. As if it wasn't expensive to destroy entire neighborhoods, a huge bridge, shore up an entire hillside, and cut a massive grade throughout the entire county to build I-75. As if we aren't still paying for it.

What, are they going to Northern Kentucky?

Don't make too much of COAST. Their pet issues during the past two cycles (prop rep in 2008 & Issue 9 in 2009) have been roundly rejected. Their only real box-office triumph was the rejection of Pepper's jail tax (which I'm using for lack of a better term) in 2007. That's what really started the COAST/NAACP coalition. The identification of an politician and their subsequent electoral success has little to do with the issues they espouse. In 2007, Qualls and Cranley came in 1st & 2nd, with, in all likelihood, a great deal of similar voters support. Yet they would certainly differ regarding the Streetcar, and other prominent issues. In my opinion, the MetroMoves plan wasn't that great. It was largely the I-71 corridor plan with a bunch of other possible commuter lines drawn on to give a sense of that it was comprehensive. My understanding was that they went with I-71 first because that's where the growth was heading at the time (it might still be), even though, I suspect most people's experience is that I-75 is more crowded and subject to more delays (I could be wrong about this). I think it's hard for the average voter to understand why a purported regional rail plan wouldn't actually end up taking you to the airport. The fact of the matter is that it is still relatively easy to commute around this metro by car, and I suspect that played a part in it's defeat as well. If we actually believe that the voters were convinced by the merits of the arguments against Issue 9, which I believe they were (and there were polls that showed a majority of voters were against the streetcar, but a majority were also against Issue 9, which suggests that voters were able to understand the argument that CfP was making), then I think we can be a little generous and assume that there were legitimate reasons why people voted against MetroMoves, the fact that the local funding match was through a sales tax was probably reason number one. It's a pretty regressive way to help fund public transit. In my opinion, the loss of MetroMoves had some beneficial consequences. It moved the impetus of governing in the region from the County (which is now basically a constant exercise in triage) back to the City. The Streetcar is front and center, and it can be the basis for future rail transit that emphasizes density and the economic areas outlined in the GO Cincinnati plan. As Jake said in an earlier post, I'd rather have 10,000 new residents in the City than 30,000 new residents in West Chester.

Hilarious.

^Both Jake and Rando make good points. I hope to add one as well. It seems to me that the big problem with Metro is that the County refuses to fund it. And the point of the Streetcar is to build up population in the City. The casino money pays out to the City, and the City is competing in an honest manner for the federal funds. I don't see any reason for the City to subsidize the County's unwillingness to pay for a necessary good that is essential to the economy of Hamilton County suburbs. Granted, this probably hurts poorer folks in the City, but they are County residents too, after all. Buses have a different purpose from the Streetcar, Metro is a wreck- therefore, they should be kept separate.

^COAST's program is largely incoherent. I'm pretty sure Cincinnati's overall tax burden is less than that in Columbus or Cleveland. So we should be seeing investment moving from those cities to Cincinnati, right? Unfortunately things are not that simple. It would be preferable for any Casino revenues to be tasked directly to economic development or the Streetcar (they should also move parking meter receipts from the police budget to the Streetcar Authority also, regardless of what they do with the Casino money).

I agree with this, although I don't think big venues like stadiums have all that big of an economic impact on their immediate surroundings. I think that the primary benefit that the City hopes to receive is the promised annual payout from the Casino (I think it was something to the tune of $20 million), which can be used for any number of things. Any other revenue that accrues is cake icing. Not that crappy tasteless white icing but good, cream-based icing.

I know they won't do it, but there should be a real effort to remove highway access from Taft/McMillan after they put the MLK interchange in. King already looks like they dropped Beechmont in the middle of town, but Taft & McMillan still have their integrity. Better to have the streetcar running down a road where someone wasn't just going 60 mph before he got on it.

I always assumed they made there liqueurs there (such as DeKuyper, etc.) rather than Bourbon.

I think this conversion would be a bad idea. This is a terrible place for a hotel- Lytle Park should remain residential. Aside from messing with the character of the area, it also doesn't really do very much for the potential hotel patrons, either. It may be close to P&G (which is the ostensible client of the hotel) but it isn't particularly close to the heart of downtown activity. In addition, we've got a great hotel that isn't even being used (the Terrace on 6th and Vine.) Obviously one can't do much if W&S buys the building outright and pays for the renovations, but I just hope the City doesn't give them any money for this. Hell, if they want to build a Hotel close to P&G they shoud buy that parking lot at the corner of 5th & Broadway and build it there.

Unless all riders live directly along the streetcar route, the argument is moot... at one point or another someone is going to have to carry groceries more than one block, otherwise the streetcar isn't nearly the successful development tool we champion it as. Three blocks should hardly discourage someone from taking the streetcar, that from a guy who walks/ carries groceries to Hyde Park Kroger and back a mile each way. ^Your point is completely valid, and will be the manner in which the streetcar will in fact be used. But that actually strikes me as validating Jeff's point. You want to make the thing as user friendly as possible, and that means taking into account the way people will conceive of it, and that inevitably means that folks will assume that they can get on it to go uptown the same place they got off it to go downtown. Walking is an integral part of the success of this plan, as higher property values will be the closer one is to the thing. Make it as simple to understand as possible.

^Exactly. I've seen one of those guys polishing the brass doorknobs of a building on 8th Street multiple times. I'm impressed with what they do. They are providing far more value downtown than some cop on a horse.

A garage is certainly better than lots. I just hope (because I have no idea) that once we get the streetcar established that there is some plan to slowly take some of those lots offline and build on them. That's all I'm concerned about.

^What I'm curious about is how, according to the article, the CSO acquired a $3.8 million deficit, because the had been the best funded local arts organization (by far) for some time now. If that means that they were 3.8 million shy of expenditures for this year alone, then Paavo must have a hell of a contract and they must not have made squat off their endowment this year.

That's sweet, though I wish that they would reconsider the parking garage.

Cool. I wish I could add more to this thread. Who knew North Bend was incorporated so late? Really gives you a sense of the time frame by which the needs of the communities expanded after 1840, and then the state government takes over most of those functions after WWII.

While I am all for historical preservation, those buildings would be better off somewhere else. Avec le temps.

300 and 304 Main (the first two buildings) are owned by North American Properties. The other ones are, from what I can tell, owned by the Convergys Corporation, who also seems to own the Atrium buildings.

^The building east of Broadway that they are tearing down for P&G. You are looking at the Gilbert Avenue exit ramp off 71.