LincolnKennedy

Not to take away from the urinal discussion, but my sources finally came in and here is my list: Cincinnati: Mr. Pitifuls Main City Bar Cooper's Murphy's O'Bryon's The Brick Yard, Hap's Animations Habits Muz's Zip's Mount Lookout Tavern Million's the Stand Stanley's Allyn's East End Cafe the Precinct Arthur's Mulligan's the Pub at Rookwood Mariemont Inn bar the Bramble Patch Hyde Park Bar & Grill Gameday the Machine Room Club 4192 the In Between Head First Spy Club Federal Reserve Pigall's Palm Court the Albee Havana Martini Club Palomino's Cadillac Ranch Plaza 600 Nicholson's Bay Horse Cafe Jeff Ruby's (downtown) Jeff Ruby's (Belterra) Madonna's McFadden's the Blue Wisp Arnold's Lava Bar Cincinnati Courtyard Cafe the Lab Rhino's Barrelhouse Alchemize Japp's Jefferson Hall Kaldi's Neon's Milton's the Mad Frog Top Cats Christies Inn the Wood Uncle Woody's Fries Arlin's Big Red's Holy Grail Bogart's the Greenwich (on Gilbert), Andy's Crowley's Longworths Alive One Blind Lemon Mt. Adams Bar and Grill Guido's Lounge the Wine Cellar the Pavillion City View Tavern Northside Tavern the Comet the Ritz Yellow House Wine Bar (Main Strasse) Cock & Bull Zola's the Village Pub Jack Quinn's the Waterfront Willie's in Covington Bar Humbug York St. Cafe Claddagh Club in Newport Levee Fish Market in Newport Levee Hooter's Newport Hofbrauhaus On Broadway the Dubliner the Gaslight Grill Lebo's Main Street Bar (Newtown) Annies Sneaky Pete's Washington, D.C.: Mr. Smith's the Raven Garretts the Brickskeller the Childe Harold Saloun Rhino's the Guards Chadwicks Paper Moon the Four Courts the Four Provinces Third Edition the Tombs 1789 bar in Leavey Lounge on Georgetown's campus (I don't think it has a name) Martin's Tavern Nathan's Clyde's J.P.'s the Irish Times Hawk & Dove Bukom Ghana Cafe Lautrec Pharmacy the Lion's Den bar at Mayflower Hotel, bar on Mr. Henry's Red Lion Rock Bottom Brewery in Bethesda City Tavern (Sign of the Indian King) Cafe Asia DragonFly Rhodeside Grill Joes Goodguys Barcelona: Kon-Tiki Bosc de les Fades Sagardi El Dique Bar Binyol Trade Winds Flan O'Briens Oveja Negra Chicago: Fado Sauce Mickey's Tin Lizzie Cactus John Barleycorn's Brother Joey's Cubby Bear Goose Island Justin's Goodbar Mother Hubbards Cans Timmy O'Tooles Ravens 10 Pin the Beaumont Jake Melnick's Sheffield's Beer Garden Ann Arbor: Ann Arbor Brewing Company Conor O'Neill's Touchdown Cafe Ricks Ashley's Scorekeeper's Blue Wolverine The Brown Jug Atlanta: Clermont Lounge Manuel's Gibney's McCray's Highland Pub Eddie's Attic Brickstore Six Feet Under Cheetah Dark Horse Neighbors Hand & Hand Pura Vita Sala the Local The Highlander Dakota Blue Vortex (midtown) Vortex (Little Five Points) Prince of Wales Sidebar Alpharetta Taco Mac Pepperoni's Tavern (Alpharetta) Tacqueria del Sol (Decatur) Tacqueria del Sol (west Midtown) Smith's Olde Bar Asada Brewhouse Pub Columbia, MO: Booche's McNally's Irish Pub Willie's Columbus, GA Caffe Amici the Tap the Big Easy Cannon Brew Pub Hooter's Scruffy Murphy's Cheddar's Texas Roadhouse Charleston, SC: Wet Willie's Blind Tiger Pub Britain: Babble (London) Bruton's (London) Bag O'Nails (London) Bar Marseilles (London) London Bar (London) Medina (Edinburgh) Hollyrood Tavern (Edinburgh) Florida: University Centre Hotel Bar (Gainesville) Market Street Pub (Gainesville) the Moorings (Palatka) Boston: Vox Populi The lists from Washington D.C., Barcelona and Atlanta were not as comprehensive as I would have liked. I wish I could remember the names of the three other bars I went to in Boston, as they all stem from the same evenings activities. A hilarious night (an hilarious night?). I only remembered Vox Populi because the name was so pretentious.

Look, the "original plan" was nothing more than a glorified artist's rendering meant to help sell the stadium tax. It did not exist in any form outside of the realm of fantasy. Outside of the parking garages, I have never felt that the Banks is a particularly pressing project for the city. There was virtually nothing on the riverfront before the new stadiums, and there's virtually nothing down there now. If this land was as valuable as people on this thread believe, then it would have been developed already. The fact is if you want to build something distinctive, it has to be a public project. There's a reason why public buildings are typically the most attractive and ornate buildings in any given town. When you have these public/private partnerships where the public presents a subsidized and packaged deal for private developers, there is obviously a win/win (or use/use, however you want to look at it) situation here- we get privated funds to develop some property and improve the tax base etc., and the developers get virtually guaranteed profits. And generally the only losers are those who care about aesthetics. Even that silly Ascent isn't building in Covington is basically a marketing gimmick to make sure the condos sell. Do you think they would have gotten Liebskind if he hadn't won that WTC competition (even though his design isn't even being used there anymore)? And as silly as Atlantic Station in Atlanta is, the fact is it's not that bad. In fact, it's actually quite a tasteful brownfield development, which is essentially what the Banks project is. It's way better than most new places built in Atlanta. Can you imagine what a botch job Corporex/Vandecar would have done with the Banks? ^Exactly. You'd think from some of this talk that folks here think downtown Manhattan is the eigth circle of hell. Personally, I think the possible height variance is a good thing, not because I actually believe these guys will find an occupant for a 30 story office tower, but because variation tends to please the eye. If there's any changes to the plan to be worried about it's those that increase street width or on-street parking. We should be particularly concerned that the street width be the same as in downtown or thinner, otherwise it will start to feel like a suburban mall.

What a shame that we made diversity a priority on the Banks project. Here's what's happened since Dawson joined the project: it has gotten closer to being built, faster than anyone else was able to do it, and made it more dense and "urban". The last straw for me will be if Dawson personally has a hand in creating some signature buildings on the Banks. Sorry, I'm taking these anti-sarcasm tablets and they just haven't been working lately. And my sweat has a bluish tint to it now.

^It's possible that Berding has pissed off enough people to get kicked off council. Lord knows he's arrogant enough. But who would vote for Ghiz who wouldn't also be voting for Berding? I also think the polls placement of Bortz is a little low.

Who is this Eichelbaum character? He seems to have an agenda, and not a good one. His organization, Marketing Developments Inc., sounds so vague and faceless that it has to be nefarious.

^Chalk up one in the win column for global warming!

I must have been thinking of Nick Spencer.

^If the Dems are asking Young to step aside from the list of endorsed candidates, it means that they don't think he is going to work as hard as this Garry kid to actually get elected. How many votes did Young get last time, 4,000+?

I just discovered this thread, and have to take some time to come up with my list before I am able to post it. It's going to be difficult remembering the names of a lot of these places, particularly in Atlanta. My cursory glance of the other lists on here make me disappointed to see that no one else seems to have had a drink at either the Bay Horse Cafe in the 600 block of Main or the Phoenix Cafe one block over on Walnut. I never made it into the Phoenix, but I made sure that my final drink before I left Cincinnati in 2003 was at the Bay Horse. Cocktails at the Bay Horse- the mark of distinction, a true urbanist. On second thought we might have had bottled beer.

These pictures are quite nice. I particularly enjoyed seeing the banks of the Ohio on the Cincinnati side. The change between the Public Landing, the wall and then green area after the Suspension Bridge was fun (for lack of a better word) to see.

I really like the setting of OU. I can't say I've been to many other colleges in Ohio, aside from UC and OU. Xavier has one of the worst however. The brown and poorly executed medieval motif, coupled with the modest bungalows containing the finance office or the department of american studies or whatever makes for a pretty poor showing. I've found that in general I enjoy the Brutalist style. Though would UC's Crosely Tower count as brutalist? I don't think so. I don't enjoy that building.

^But isn't the whole fiscal responsibility argument a bit of a smoke screen, especially when most, if not all local governments are required to have balanced budgets? What besides a good bond rating would your definition of fiscal responsibility entail? Why do you think cuts in services are necessary at this point? The real necessity for government fiscal responsibility isn't simply about cutting taxes and services, it is for making sound investments, investments that effect the local economy and infrastructure as broadly as possible. A perfect example is the stadiums built in the late 90s versus the present streetcar plan. The stadiums were built to keep an existing product, two privately owned professional sports teams, which were considered important parts of the local economy (and culture, though this imperative was not discussed as much). The football stadium was finished in 2000 and the baseball stadium in 2003. They were packaged as investments to revitalize a relatively derelict area (the riverfront) but come 4 to 7 years later no additional investment, not even government investment, has occured in said area. On the other hand, the streetcar is moving forward in order to meet the needs of a growing "industry" (downtown living) that is primarily driven by private investment. This contrasts strongly with the stadiums which were all about keeping an existing product. In addition, the streetcar will help its primary goal will several ongoing and seperate government investments, in particular Findlay Market and Fountain Square, while in addition, provide an added resource for the city's primary source of revenue, corporate workers. The above is perhaps an inelegant and obvious contrast. I never quite understood what small-government types wanted to be involved in local government for, since they seemed to want to do nothing. Perhaps Heimlich et. al. were just looking to draw an extra paycheck.

Well, Steve Driehaus (D) of Cheviot is going to be running against Chabot in 2008. As Pete Witte of the Price Hill Club for Growth or whatever said in the newspaper article about Qualls running, he and his group consider Qualls' West Side credentials to be insufficient. I don't think she'll run for that office again. This is an exciting time in local politics. We have some real consensus here, something we really haven't seen since the early 70s. Recall the contentious city councils of the 1990s and the stadium issue which devoured its fathers (Bob Bedinghaus and Tom Neyer). And yet the beneficiaries of that particular issue, Phil Heimlich and John Dowlin, are gone. Another, Pat DeWine, is a virtual non-entity. Their philosophy of so-called limited government doesn't work when the government is the only entity with the power and the resources to make the sort of large-scale improvements necessary to rework large areas of town (like the West End with City West, or the riverfront with the stadiums and the Banks, or Fountain Square). Even if most of the money invested in these types of projects isn't actually funded by the government, the government, county or city, has to guarantee the private investors in some way. Heimlich's ridiculous performance in the year before he was ousted best exemplified the hollowness of his governing philosophy, how it amounted to little more than P.R. Swoop in with Corporex and Vandecar to build something called the Banks. Build a new jail (but ignore the reasons why we need one. The difference between the Heimlich "jail tax" plan and the current one proposed by Pepper and Portune is profound, for those who care about the details.) Things are looking up. The streetcar seems to have no serious opposition, and all the serious city politicians are for it. One of the benefits of having different levels of government that converge and diverge in a loose and haphazard fashion is that when a pressing social need may fail at one level (like public transit in the county in 2002 or national health care in the nation circa now) it can move forward on another (like the city, or the states). I am worried about the presence of to many big personalities on council in December. Qualls, Bortz, Berding, Cole, Cooper, Cranley and Winburn represent a lot of ego. More than any local politician in recent memory, however, Mark Mallory speaks softly and carries a big stick (supress the giggles, Cramer). I also think there is a general popular will of the moment to punish those who seem to be against progress, compared to the nineties, when guys like Tom Luken, Phil Heimlich, Dwight Tillery and others were rewarded by local constituencies when they blocked progress. As long as certain louder interest groups, specifically west side whites and black-empowerment types feel that their concerns are represented and seriously addressed, then the relatively chill popular majority will be able to govern well. And a lot of this ability has to do with personality. As much as I may personally dislike him, Jeff Berding is a much better and more responsible representative of the west side concern than Tom Luken ever was. Likewise, Laketa Cole is a much better Alicia Reese than Alicia ever was. I think if we see Pat Fischer replace Leslie Ghiz as one of the Republicans on council we start to see a real flourishing of this consensus.

^Well then you are out of luck, because I don't think Ms. Kaup will make it on this round. But don't worry, the streetcar should proceed apace. New predictions, in no particular order: Handicapping the current race: 1- Qualls © 2- Bortz © 3- Cranley (D) 4- Cole (D) 5- Cooper (D) 6- Winburn ® 7- Fischer/Ghiz ® 8- Thomas (D) 9- Berding (D) No way more than two Charterites and two Republicans make it on. Berding probably thinks a five four split like this will give him leverage to divide and conquer, but Mallory is more adroit, particularly with the advent of the "adults".

Rando, you've got a new building right on top of the Cincinnati Job Corp building / old nunnery on the corner of Kenner and Western. If you take a look at it I don't think you're going to want to have that coming down.

By signature you must mean a piece of fecal matter because I know you aren't implying that the Crowne Plaza Hotel is anything to be proud of... Well, if you don't like the International Style than you don't like it. But when it was built, by Mary Emery, I believe, shortly after WWII, it was cutting-edge, and so that is why I say it is a signature building. There also was a Joan Miro painting in the lobby, commissioned expressly for the hotel, I believe (no it's in the Art Museum). I actually kind of like the building. Not every building can be as beautiful as the Chrysler Building. And remember, what else did William Van Alen ever do?

Well, if you are looking for a place to watch the Bengals in Atlanta on Sundays, I used to watch the games with some friends at a bar called Gibney's downtown. I'm sure they will be there when the season starts. You're not a douchebag, are you? Awesome. Merkowitz, if it's any consolation, whenever we've hung out, I always felt that you helped make me look particularly cool. Jmeck, any recommendations on Emerson? Books to purchase, and what not? I'm looking for something highbrow to order along with the third season of The Office so the mail-handlers don't steal my DVD, and your quote has peaked my interest, both intellectually and as an extremely chauvinistic American.

^Qualls is a quality politician, as Cramer says. Much more solid than Tarbell, despite his charms. I'm not quite sure what her motivation is in taking this spot, though clearly Charter wants to hold onto this seat. Qualls will be a strong supporter of the streetcar. The real interesting thing will be to see who Mallory chooses to be vice-mayor. Tarbell was a nice choice because he was not a potential rival.

^Of course she's pissed, because this effectively destroys her chances to win. Who's going to vote for Melanie who isn't going to vote for Qualls? In addition, Melanie's one issue, crime, is going to be much less of an issue come November. There's still time to go in the summer, but what we are going to see for this election is essentially a battle between previous fame and who can be a valuable addition to Team Mallory. That's why Qualls spoke so highly of the mayor and Bates is pissed because her strategy was to go after the mayor on crime. Not going to work. And with some Democrats perturbed over Melanie's disloyalty to the party (I include yours truly in this group) there's no way she's going to have a broad appeal. No blacks, no progressive dems. It's the candidates who seem like they will be able to work with the mayor (excepting possibly the loose cannon Winburn; Berding will position himself as a team player) who will win in November. Belie 'dat (read as spoken by Martin Lawrence).

^The funds were secured by Chabot? (in addition to Schmidt and Voinovich). I thought he voted against the bill that had riverfront park funding in it. I think that is typical Chabot though, voting for a bill at one part of the process and against it at another, so he can say he brings home the bacon and fights spending at the same time. Though in this particular instance I remember a newpaper article where he either said he was against the bill or accused Schmidt of something or other. Rando, get on that!

^I once walked from the Buckhead Metro Station all the way down Peachtree to Arts Center. And it wasn't because I am creative. It was because I kept thinking, "Okay, they'll be a station over that next hill." I also never quite understood what is meant by, "the young and talented". Most of the people I went to college with, whom I assume are the YP demographic, were anything but talented. And their reasons for living where they did weren't profound. Anybody can justify a move to New York. There's a kid I work with now who wants to go to college in NYC. He's a nice guy, relatively anti-social. Doesn't drink, doesn't do drugs, doesn't go out to bars, doesn't pick up girls, isn't artistic in a creative or performing arts way. He has very well defined and eclectic taste in rock music, however (he's the only guy here who knows who the Pixies are besides myself, and he's 22 or something). I said to him, "So you want to move to New York so you can listen to bands?" Aside from the, "It's just a cool place argument" he gave, I think I pretty much called it. There's nothing particularly creative or value-added about that.

Well, the last "signature" office building was probably The P&G towers. Now if they aren't signature enough for you, I think that was probably the point, although their massive presence just off to the side is a pretty good metaphor for P&Gs relation to the City. You might not notice at first, but you always have to take them into account. Other "signature" buildings you may or may not like- Times-Star (800 Broadway); Crowne Plaza Hotel (6th and Vine); the Kroger Building (Court Street). I'm not quite sure what "signature" defines, certainly all corporate headquarters intend to project some sort of message, but even the Carew Tower isn't signature in the sense that some random person would recognize it like they might with the Chrysler Building or old WTC. Using that definition, the only really signature building in Cincinnati would be Union Terminal.

^I still think the thesis of this article is absurd. A city is dynamic first and foremost if it provides economic opportunity, and secondly if it is an incubator of culture. You need more than just spoiled twenty-somethings for that. Also, "happiness" is a laundry list of items that you can apply to every consumer.

^ Too bad the survey mentioned that the number two source for primary info about downtown (at 65%) is the daily newspaper.

I think those buildings are like an invasive virus of the suburban aesthetic infiltrating the heart of urban design. I don't like 'em. They seem uninspired.