xboarder84

I think the casino will help out the city no matter what. This isn't Detroit, each situation is different. And how could it get worse than it was before? This line in the above article was all it took to remind me of why I ALWAYS avoided Public Square: "Public Square is not the magnet it once was for people looking to take drugs, sleep or even bathe in the fountain, said Helena Miller of the Downtown Cleveland Alliance". Homeless people bathing in the fountain. It would take a massive failure on our city's part for this casino to do worse than that...

Sometimes I just wish I could fast forward to see these projects at their completion. I know we've had a lot of lakefront concepts presented in the past 30 years, but this one looks great. I was in Seattle five years ago and was blown away by their waterfront and kept thinking "Why can't we do this in Cleveland?". This latest design really makes me feel like I'll be able to stop asking myself that question.

If you go back to the original plans for Steelyard Commons, I thought they had always planned for a JCPenney to be built eventually. I'll put my money on that over any other options being built. Although I would love if they full size gym there (like the Lifetime fitness gym over in Beachwood).

^ I think the location made more sense from the perspective of the entire project. The Avenue project was, to my memory, supposed to cover the entire block on E. 12th where this building is located, plus there were plans to demolish the parking lot to the south, as well as possibly construct some buildings in front of the One Cleveland Center parking garage (in the green area surrounding the garage with the man-made hills and small running area). I believe I saw plans that had all of those projects included, which made much more sense for this building. Unfortunately it's hard to make a multi-stage plan work when the economy suddenly crashes...

Has anyone heard any word on completing the initial project? I loved the initial Avenue District design (with surrounding buildings and store/restaurant fronts), but I fear this lawsuit has pretty much wiped out the rest of the project...

I never thought of that, but it is possible that Cleveland's declining population is due to replacing low income families with the middle/upper class. There have been lots of housing projects in Tremont lately and I've noticed most of those new townhouses have couples or 1 child families living in them. The family sizes are shrinking as more wealthy citizens move in. But as hts121 pointed out, this is addition through subtraction. I can bet those new families pay a lot more in property and city tax than the families who left. Hopefully in the next decade we can see this trend kick in and see a population increase for Cleveland.

I disagree. If Cleveland wants to get a downtown population, they should worry about replacing the housing stock second. First on their list should be the school system. No one will move into Cleveland if the school system remains how it is today. You can easily move just outside the city lines and go to a much better school system than what Cleveland can provide. You want to attract people back to downtown? Fix the schools, then developers will flock to build and develop housing.

Impressive ideas, especially img's rendition. I would take any one of those as a new public square layout. Between the Mall and Public Square, this city can finally get some green back downtown. For a city that was once called "The Forest City", I see more parking lots downtown than trees! Does anyone know if there have been any proposed development plans for Public Square recently?

Good. The artwalks are fantastic times in Tremont and it would be great to see some legitimate lighting on the sidewalks. I was surprised by that crime statistic. I walk down Professor and near that intersection all the time and rarely feel unsafe. But I am also over 6' tall and weigh 230 (which may be why I feel safer). The only disappointing part of this is that they plan on just attaching the lights to the telephone poles already around the streets. Frankly those poles give the streets a run-down feel to it. I would have preferred they spend a bit more money and bury those wires and put up some nicer looking lighting poles.

Agreed 327. And the curbs in question aren't exactly small. I know the Jefferson intersection is actually quite large in terms of curb space. The only curb I could see as needing expansion would be the intersection of Professor and W 10th. Other than that the rest of these curbs don't exactly need any additional 'bumpouts'.

Well glad to see they are finally re-developing those intersections. One issue I have with this is that they made no mention of street lighting. It's great that bikes will have more space on intersections, but at night (when there are too many people on the sidewalk to ride a bike) there's nearly NO lighting for pedestrians. I really was hoping for some money added to account for better street lighting, especially on the section of Professor south of Jefferson. With no lighting there, most people don't venture down to the new Turkish restaurant or the businesses down there. Would be nice to properly light up the entire street.

I have to agree with Burnham on this one, it's the amount of activity available at street level that makes an area heavy with foot-traffic, not the size of the building. I had a client in Key Tower and spent two weeks working there. Outside of the buffet in the hotel and that little sports deli across the street, there was NO WHERE to eat for lunch. After three days I just started packing because there just wasn't anything really worth it. I'm sure there may have been other places had I walked farther down to Tower City, but with so many buildings that have no retail spaces on the first floor, it keeps people inside buildings. E. 4th is an excellent example of how to increase foot-traffic around these big buildings. I would love to see the city use that final plot of land on Public Square used for a skyscraper, and have the first two floors entirely dedicated to restaurants and other retail. It's a simple concept that would do wonders for foot traffic downtown and around Public Square.

It doesn't look like BaltiCraig posted the entire article. And thanks for the tip roserob, makes it a lot easier to keep up on those articles!

Thanks for the shot back KJP. I was pointing out that the idea seemed too good to be true. I've spent my whole life in this city and actively watched any and all progress it has had towards growing and expanding. So don't put me in with those lousy haters on Cleveland.com. I'd love to see something like a central rail hub, but I'm also realistic on the possibilities of that actually happening. Don't forget, we have a beautiful parking lot sitting in the center of our city. So while I also wish for great ideas, I have seen this city turn its head enough not to get my hopes up about it. But feel free to let yours fly.

A Mustard Seed? (that would apply to the college crowd)