jbcmh81

Here are the May numbers by industry and change since May 2011. Mining/Logging/Construction Akron: 12,800 +1,600 Cincinnati: 39,000 +800 Cleveland: 32,000 +200 Columbus: 28,100 -700 Dayton: 10,800 -500 Toledo: 12,000 +800 Youngstown: 8,300 -400 Manufacturing Akron: 41,800 +2,300 Cincinnati: 112,200 +7,500 Cleveland: 122,800 +3,000 Columbus: 61,500 -2,800 Dayton: 39,600 -400 Toledo: 39,400 +0 Youngstown: 29,800 -400 Trade/Transportation/Utilities Akron: 61,800 -200 Cincinnati: 198,700 +3,200 Cleveland: 180,000 +3,100 Columbus: 183,700 +4,800 Dayton: 63,300 +600 Toledo: 57,500 -400 Youngstown: 46,200 -100 Information Akron: 3,700 -100 Cincinnati: 13,800 -200 Cleveland: 14,800 -600 Columbus: 16,700 -200 Dayton: 9,700 -100 Toledo: 3,400 +0 Youngstown: 2,300 +0 Financial Activities Akron: 13,600 -100 Cincinnati: 62,200 -1,500 Cleveland: 65,400 +900 Columbus: 71,800 +1,800 Dayton: 17,100 +0 Toledo: 11,000 -300 Youngstown: 8,800 +0 Professional and Business Services Akron: 49,200 -200 Cincinnati: 158,300 +4,700 Cleveland: 134,500 -3,900 Columbus: 154,000 +4,600 Dayton: 48,700 +1,700 Toledo: 33,900 +600 Youngstown: 21,800 -500 Education and Health Akron: 50,300 -500 Cincinnati: 151,800 +1,300 Cleveland: 192,400 +3,800 Columbus: 140,100 +10,100 Dayton: 70,800 +1,000 Toledo: 51,900 +0 Youngstown: 44,700 +600 Leisure and Hospitality Akron: 28,900 -1,500 Cincinnati: 110,700 +2,300 Cleveland: 88,000 -1,800 Columbus: 90,500 -1,100 Dayton: 39,500 +2,200 Toledo: 34,700 +1,300 Youngstown: 22,800 +500 Other Services Akron: 13,100 -200 Cincinnati: 40,800 -200 Cleveland: 41,500 +200 Columbus: 37,800 +2,400 Dayton: 15,200 +0 Toledo: 13,100 -100 Youngstown: 9,900 -100 Government Akron: 46,900 -100 Cincinnati: 129,200 +300 Cleveland: 130,800 -6,800 Columbus: 153,500 -4,700 Dayton: 66,200 -700 Toledo: 45,500 -1,600 Youngstown: 31,000 -300

I wanted to do a larger update for May's numbers and just a general bunch of numbers on where the metros are standing up through then. First, the general numbers. May 2012 National Unemployment Rate: 8.2% May 2012 Ohio Unemployment Rate: 7.3% Unemployment Rates by Metro, May 2012 Akron: 6.6% Cleveland: 6.9% Cincinnati: 6.7% Columbus: 6.1% Dayton: 7.3% Toledo: 7.6% Youngstown: 7.4% All the biggest metros are now well below the national average. Unemployment Rate Change May 2011 to May 2012 by Metro Akron: -1.6 Cincinnati: -1.5 Cleveland: -0.9 Columbus: -1.3 Dayton: -1.8 Toledo: -1.6 Youngstown: -1.7 May 2012 Unemployment Rate by County Summit: 6.6% Hamilton: 6.7% Cuyahoga: 7.1% Franklin: 6.2% Montgomery: Lucas: 7.8% Mahoning: 7.4% May 2012 Unemployment Rate by City Akron: 7.6% Cincinnati: 7.3% Cleveland: 9.3% Columbus: 6.2% Dayton: 8.9% Toledo: 8.5% Youngstown: 9.5% May 2012 Civilian Labor Force and Chance since May 2011 Akron: 370,000 -4,500 Cincinnati: 1,105,100 -300 Cleveland: 1,083,700 +2,300 Columbus: 960,300 +200 Dayton: 407,700 -4,000 Toledo: 316,000 -4,700 Youngstown: 265,100 -4, 700 Generally, when a labor force grows, it means that people are starting to come back onto the rolls as looking for work, meaning the perception is that the economy is getting better. Although employment has been rising in every metro and the unemployment level is dropping, there is still a perception out there in most cities that there aren't as many jobs. May 2012 Total Employment and Change since May 2011 Akron: 345,700 +1,900 Cincinnati: 1,029,100 +16,300 Cleveland: 1,011,000 +11,700 Columbus: 902,100 +13,400 Dayton: 378,000 +3,700 Toledo: 292,000 +700 Youngstown: 245,400 +100 May 2012 Total Unemployment and Change since May 2011 Akron: 24,300 -6,400 Cincinnati: 76,000 -16,600 Cleveland: 72,700 -9,300 Columbus: 58,200 -13,200 Dayton: 29,800 -7,600 Toledo: 24,100 -9,900 Youngstown: 19,700 -4,900 With the unemployment and employment numbers, if they closely match, it's usually a good sign. For Cincinnati, Columbus, and to a lesser degree, Cleveland, the number of people who became employed encompassed about the same number that dropped off the unemployed total, meaning that most were actually hired into jobs intead of just dropping out of the employment search altogether. The other cities, in particular Toledo, have much larger unemployment falls than employment gains, indicating more people just stopped looking for work than became employed. May 2012 Total Non-Farm Jobs and Change since May 2011 Akron: 322,100 +2,100 Cincinnati: 1,016,700 +18,200 Cleveland: 1,002,200 -1,900 Columbus: 937,700 +14,200 Dayton: 380,000 +4,000 Toledo: 302,400 +300 Youngstown: 225,600 -700

In what way? There has been a push to consolidate our plethora of political subdivisions. Nothing has happened yet, but it will be interesting to see what does happen as local government funds continue to dwindle and expenses rise. Consolidation of services will come first, but complete consolidation between Cleveland and some or many of its inner-ring suburbs is certainly not out of the question. Louisville and Indianapolis have provided some models. I doubt we will ever see a total annexation of Cuyahoga County (1.2 million pop), but who knows what might happen if the dominos start to fall. There are several cities in economic peril - East Cleveland, Garfield Heights, Maple Heights, Warrensville, etc. There are other cities which will likely run into the same problems over the next decade such as Parma, Euclid, South Euclid, Brook Park, etc. That would seem to help Cleveland's suburbs more than Cleveland itself, though. If the city added a bunch of financially troubled and poorly run suburbs, I'm not sure what the benefits would be besides some additional population. It would only seem to shift the burden of problems to Cleveland.

Completely disagree. Ohio's economy is recovering very well and every major metro has unemployment well below the national average. Cost of living is low and manufacting, etc will continue to help the state (even if it doesn't grow every month nationally). Combined with development going on in major cities and the urban trends, it's very hard to imagine that Ohio will lose people in any upcoming decade. Growth may not be fast, but the state is not like Michigan, where it was losing people largely because it has one significant city in the state, and that city has one of the worst reputations, if not the worst, in the country. I do believe that the worst is over for Ohio.

I think they need more specific parking lots. They should be making lots just for: bicycles, scooters, wheelchairs, hovercraft, boat trailers, jetpacks, hot air balloons, blimps, unicycles and UFOs. Just to be sure. Oh, and they will need hotel parking if they end up putting in one (if they can find the room left for an actual building).

The Dispatch stories on this have been somewhat vague, but from what I can tell, it's still a one-story with just more height and some kind of lighthouse feature. I read on another forum that one of the suggestions for the project was to build with construction that could allow additional floors to be added at some point in the future, but I have no idea if that's true or part of the plans. Given the organization's general disregard for the neighborhood and city, it's highly unlikely. Needless to say, still a disappointment, but at least it's not all hot pink.

In what way?

? I think you completely took that wrong. I said that, in all likelihood, Cincy and Cleveland will lose population again come 2020. While the redevelopment going on in those downtowns is significant, it's still going to take time for that growth to spread further out. Cincy and Cleveland registered big population gains in their downtowns the last decade, but still lost population overall because of urban/suburban areas further out continue to empty. I think this will still be the case come 2020, but with losses much smaller than the previous decade. At this point, I would say that whatever losses do occur will be 50%+ less than 2000-2010. It's also possible that the cities are growing again by 2020 but still register a loss from earlier years. Who knows, but the trends ARE positive, and that's very good news to me even if it takes more time for the declines to ultimately stop come census time. If Dayton can manage to start growing again, the cities of Cleveland and Cincinnati have a very good chance to do so too, but as much larger cities, it's just going to take longer. I don't think this is being negative, just realistic. And in my very first post in the thread, I said that the numbers were generally positive, and they are. The yearly losses for many cities, including Cincy and Cleveland, were MUCH slower than the average the previous decade.

I think the diehard Cleveland boosters were believing there was growth going on, but the census estimates never really showed that. Also, it seems most of the losses occurred earlier in the decade, at least from numbers I've seen. Keep in mind also that the urban movement is recent, starting several years ago, but not really picking up until the last couple years. Long-term trends take time to develop. I do think that Cincy and Cleveland will still have lost population by 2020, but by how much is the question. I think it's a safe bet it will be significantly less than the 2000-2010 period, and if the development momentum keeps up, maybe I'll be wrong and this monkey can finally get off the backs of Ohio's cities.

The MSA estimates came out earlier this year. I thought I made a post here about them, will have to find it again.

Likely what has changed is the whole urban movement going on. A lot of people believe it began during and after the recession, but it didn't. I've seen links on this site that suburban growth began to drop back in the early 2000s while city growth steadied or began to rise a bit. The recession just accelerated these trends and younger generations (as well as retirees) want more amenities. Cities benefit from this. I didn't closely look at other cities, but for Columbus, I couldn't find a single place within Franklin County that was not growing. Every place that lost population the last decade grew the past year.

Here are the top 50 largest cities in 2020 using a simple extrapolation from growth rates 2010-2011, as well as their overall change in the size ranking if rates continued. Change in ranking in (). 1. Columbus: 891,043 (0) 2. Cleveland: 366,725 (0) 3. Cincinnati: 289,743 (0) 4. Toledo: 275,508 (0) 5. Akron: 192,030 (0) 6. Dayton: 147,737 (0) 7. Parma: 75,271 (0) 8. Canton: 72,127 (0) 9. Hamilton: 65,657 (+2) 10. Lorain: 64,647 (0) 11 Youngstown: 62,872 (-2) 12. Kettering: 58,803 (+1) 13. Springfield: 57,858 (-1) 14. Elyria: 55,013 (0) 15. Middletown: 51,374 (+2) 16. Newark: 49,743 (+3) 17. Beavercreek: 48,923 (+6) 18. Lakewood: 48,061 (-3) 19. Cuyahoga Falls: 47,862 (-3) 20. Dublin: 47,701 (+6) 21. Mentor: 46,829 (0) 22. Euclid: 45,130 (-4) 23. Fairfield: 44,710 (+2) 24. Mansfield: 44,441 (-4) 25. Findlay: 42,692 (+3) 26. Delaware: 42,633 (+10) 27. Cleveland Heights: 42,551 (-5) 28. Westerville: 41,570 (+5) 29. Strongsville: 41,250 (-5) 30. Lancaster: 41,240 (-1) 31. Grove City: 40,345 (+4) 32. Reynoldsburg: 39,893 (+2) 33. Huber Heights: 39,871 (-2) 34. Warren: 39,567 (-7) 35. Upper Arlington: 38,291 (+4) 36. Lima: 37,991 (-6) 37. Gahanna: 37,708 (+3) 38. Brunswick: 36,115 (0) 39. Marion: 35,357 (-7) 40. Fairborn: 35,032 (+1) 41. Mason: 33,982 (+4) 42. Stow: 33,577 (-5) 43. Hilliard: 32,245 (+7) 44. Bowling Green: 31,958 (+2) 45. Massillon: 31,719 (-1) 46. Westlake: 30,229 (-4) 47. North Olmsted: 30,168 (-4) 48. North Ridgeville: 29,735 (0) 49. Kent: 29,214 (0) 50. Medina: 28,118 (entered top 50, replaces North Royalton)

So city population estimates have been out a few weeks. I thought that, in general, they were positive for Ohio. First, here are the top 50 largest cities with the population change from 2010 to July 1, 2011. 1. Columbus: 797,434 +10,401 2. Cleveland: 393,806 -3,009 3. Cincinnati: 296,223 -720 4. Toledo: 286,038 -1,170 5. Akron: 198,402: -708 6. Dayton: 142,148 +621 7. Parma: 80,968 -633 8. Canton: 72,919 -88 9. Youngstown: 66,571 -411 10. Lorain: 64,152 +55 11. Hamilton: 62,795 +318 12. Springfield: 60,333 -275 13. Kettering: 56,427 +264 14. Elyria: 54,581 +48 15. Lakewood: 51,724 -407 16. Cuyahoga Falls: 49,473 -179 17. Middletown: 48,962 +268 18. Euclid: 48,541 -379 19. Newark: 47,790 +217 20. Mansfield: 47,483 -338 21. Mentor: 47,126 -33 22. Cleveland Heights: 45,764 -357 23. Beavercreek: 45,566 +373 24. Strongsville: 44,400 -350 25. Fairfield: 42,730 +220 26. Dublin: 42,346 +595 27. Warren: 41,358 -199 28. Findlay: 41,351 +149 29. Lancaster: 39,026 +246 30. Lima: 38,693 -78 31. Huber Heights: 38,278 +177 32. Marion: 36,689 -148 33. Westerville: 36,665 +545 34. Reynoldsburg: 36,293 +400 35. Grove City: 36,052 +477 36. Delaware: 35,541 +788 37. Stow: 34,711 -126 38. Brunswick: 34,441 +186 39. Upper Arlington: 34,223 +452 40. Gahanna: 33,694 +446 41. Fairborn: 32,620 +268 42. Westlake: 32,479 -250 43. North Olmsted: 32,463 -255 44. Massillon: 32,106 -43 45. Mason: 31,039 +327 46. Bowling Green: 30,221 +193 47. North Royalton: 30,206 -238 48. North Ridgeville: 29,492 +27 49. Kent: 28,935 +31 50. Hilliard: 28,816 +381

There are several projects on the list that have direct city involvement, especially in the Downtown area. They're not all private development projects.

So according to you, the only viable project a city can do is related to bike corrals? Wow, what forward thinking, there Keith. Next thing you'll be suggesting is more density :roll: And seriously, even after I provided a link with 18 pages of projects running into the billions of dollars, you mention American Addition and bike shelters as "big" and suggest that's all that's going on? No mention of the thousands of residential units under construction, no mention of the Scioto Peninsula and river redevelopment, no mention of the rebuild of High and Broad, etc etc. No, you focus on a $300K project because bikes have become your latest topic to make ridiculous statements about. You're completely transparent. Here's some projects announced or continuing just since late December, along with their location and development cost if available. December 12, 2011: West Side: $400 million http://www.10tv.com/content/stories/2011/12/12/columbus-casino-brings-jobs.html December 13, 2011: Short North: $40 million http://www.columbusunderground.com/the-hubbard-apartments-to-rise-over-the-short-north December 14, 2011: Short North: $5 million http://www.columbusunderground.com/wood-companies-new-short-north-apartments-going-skyward December 15,2011: Hilliard: http://www.dispatch.com/content/stories/business/2011/12/15/county-officials-ok-darby-development.html December 21, 2011: Franklinton: $50 million http://www.dispatch.com/content/stories/local/2011/12/20/zoning-board-oks-racing-at-cooper-stadium-site.html December 23, 2011: South Side: $150 million http://www.bizjournals.com/columbus/print-edition/2011/12/23/scioto-downs-adding-jobs-expanding.html December 29, 2011: Downtown: $10 million http://www.dispatch.com/content/stories/business/2011/12/29/sheratonconfident-in-10m-upgrade.html January 8, 2012: Downtown through North Side http://www.dispatch.com/content/stories/local/2012/01/08/cota-studying-speedy-bus-route.html January 8, 2012: Near East Side: $10 million http://www.dispatch.com/content/stories/local/2012/01/08/near-east-side-starts-renewal.html January 2012: Victorian Village: $29 million http://www.columbusunderground.com/forums/topic/goodale-landing#post-418041 January 2012: Downtown: $27 million http://www.columbusunderground.com/police-hq-renovation-project-moving-forward January 24, 2012: Harrison West http://www.dispatch.com/content/stories/local/2012/01/24/two-city-neighborhoods-lose-development-fights.html February 2, 2012: Dublin http://www.columbusunderground.com/dublin-grows-up-the-bridge-street-corridor-plans-for-urban-development February 6, 2012: Brewery District http://www.columbusunderground.com/edwards-companies-converting-born-brewery-building-into-apartments February 6, 2012: Downtown: $16-$20 million http://www.dispatch.com/content/stories/business/2012/02/06/grant-will-help-clear-asbestos-from-atlas-building.html February 18, 2012: Campus: $50 million http://www.dispatch.com/content/stories/local/2012/02/18/new-osu-building-tops-colleges-collective-budget.html February 19, 2012: Weinland Park http://www.dispatch.com/content/stories/local/2012/02/19/five-story-apartment-building-proposed-for-n--high-st--in-weinland-park.html February 21, 2012: Italian Village Jeffrey Site http://www.columbusunderground.com/neighborhood-launch-to-build-260-new-downtown-apartment-units February 24, 2012: Downtown http://www.columbusunderground.com/neighborhood-launch-to-build-260-new-downtown-apartment-units February 24, 2012: Citywide http://www.dispatch.com/content/stories/local/2012/02/24/a-war-on-blight.html February 24, 2012: Downtown http://www.facebook.com/pages/The-Hills-Market-Downtown/193679764043423?sk=wall February 27, 2012: Downtown: $140 million http://www.dispatch.com/content/stories/life_and_entertainment/2012/02/26/artful-lodging.html February 27, 2012: Near East Side http://www.columbusunderground.com/american-addition-neighborhood-gains-six-new-homes-more-soon-to-come March 8, 2012: Short North: $50 million http://www.bizjournals.com/columbus/print-edition/2012/03/09/pizzuti-gets-key-approval-in-bid-to.html March 8, 2012: Campus http://www.columbusunderground.com/wexner-center-announces-education-center-expansion March 9, 2012: Downtown: $59 million http://www.dispatch.com/content/stories/local/2012/03/09/old-hall-of-justice-will-get-a-face-lift.html March 16, 2012: Downtown: $22 million http://www.bizjournals.com/columbus/print-edition/2012/03/16/investors-see-renewed-life-for-leveque.html March 21, 2012: Downtown http://www.dispatch.com/content/stories/local/2012/03/21/downtown-may-offer-bicycles-for-rent.html March 22, 2012: Urban Core http://www.columbusunderground.com/electric-vehicle-charging-stations-installed-in-victorian-village-downtown March 27, 2012: Near East Side: $1.45 million http://www.dispatch.com/content/stories/local/2012/03/27/extra-grant-money-to-help-east-side-neighborhood.html April 3, 2012: Downtown: $35.5 million http://www.dispatch.com/content/stories/local/2012/04/03/remaking-the-river.html April 3, 2012: Franklinton/Downtown http://www.columbusunderground.com/planning-begins-for-redevelopment-of-scioto-peninsula April 4, 2012: Downtown: $50 million http://www.dispatch.com/content/stories/local/2012/04/04/columbus-commons-apartments.html April 4, 2012: East Side/Airport: $21 million http://www.dispatch.com/content/stories/business/2012/04/04/new-hq-brings-employees-together.html April 6, 2012: Easton: $22 million http://www.bizjournals.com/columbus/blog/2012/04/easton-getting-redone-victorias.html April 9, 2012: Dublin: $100 million http://www.bizjournals.com/columbus/print-edition/2012/04/13/4th-time-around-brings-apartment-plan.html April 12, 2012: Riverside: $321 million http://www.dispatch.com/content/stories/local/2012/04/12/riverside-expansion.html April 12, 2012: Downtown: $342 million http://www.dispatch.com/content/stories/local/2012/04/12/big-sewer-pipe.html April 13, 2012: Downtown http://www.bizjournals.com/columbus/blog/2012/04/casto-begins-work-on-secur-it-building.html April 13, 2012: Victorian Village http://www.bizjournals.com/columbus/print-edition/2012/04/13/4th-time-around-brings-apartment-plan.html April 14, 2012: Franklinton http://www.columbusunderground.com/400-west-rich-street-grows-rapidly-in-first-year April 18, 2012: Upper Arlington http://www.columbusunderground.com/lennox-flats-finishing-phase-one-of-new-apartment-development April 18, 2012: Whitehall: $17 million http://www.dispatch.com/content/stories/local/2012/04/18/new-offices-for-children-services.html April 20, 2012: Hilliard: $70 million http://www.dispatch.com/content/stories/business/2012/04/20/hilliard-plan-woos-young-professionals.html April 20, 2012: Franklinton: $6 million\ http://www.columbusunderground.com/orange-barrel-media-plans-franklinton-headquarters April 24, 2012: Downtown http://www.columbusunderground.com/downtown-action-plan-will-review-transportation-upgrades-to-city-streets April 26, 2012: Arena District: $5.5 million http://www.bizjournals.com/columbus/blog/2012/04/nationwide-arena-getting-new.html May 7, 2012: Campus: $1.1 billion http://www.bizjournals.com/columbus/blog/2012/05/slideshow-topping-off-of-osu-wexner.html May 8, 2012: Brewery District http://www.columbusunderground.com/liberty-place-adding-over-200-new-apartment-units-to-the-brewery-district May 18, 2012: Italian Village http://www.columbusunderground.com/wonder-bread-lofts-will-be-home-to-mixed-use-redevelopment May 31, 2012: Franklinton/Near West Side http://www.bizjournals.com/columbus/print-edition/2012/06/01/600-goodale-project-ready-to-rise.html June 15, 2012: Northwest Side: $30 million http://www.dispatch.com/content/stories/local/2012/06/15/zoo-addition-is-out-of-africa.html June 15, 2012: Downtown http://www.bizjournals.com/columbus/print-edition/2012/06/15/master-plan-to-shake-up-ccad-campus.html June 20, 2012: Urban Core http://www.10tv.com/content/stories/2012/06/20/columbus-apartment-boom.html June 30, 2012: Urban Core http://www.dispatch.com/content/stories/business/2012/06/30/rush-to-rent-and-build.html General News February 20, 2012: Urban Core http://www.dispatch.com/content/stories/local/2012/02/20/developers-in-columbus-focus-on-apartments-near-downtown.html February 26, 2012 http://www.dispatch.com/content/stories/business/2012/02/26/architects-see-promising-decade-ahead-for-columbus.html March 12, 2012: Citywide http://www.dispatch.com/content/stories/local/2012/03/12/COTA-ridership-increases-highest-in-nation.html April 7, 2012: Columbus Area http://www.dispatch.com/content/stories/local/2012/04/07/central-ohio-drives-ohios-population-growth.html I left off MANY smaller projects and projects that were ongoing before this period or have been announced but have no specific details.

No, they really don't have to do "something big". Ohio's cities don't need more gimmicks suggested by people who don't even like the state.

You guys realize that, in terms of tourism dollars made, Ohio destroys Michigan and a majority of other states. Ohio makes close to $40 billion a year on tourism... Michigan maybe half that.

Keith, whatever decent points you try to make continually get lost in your insistance that Ohio is far behind everyone else. I get tired of all these opinions about what Ohio and its metros are doing wrong and a lot of them completely forget why the state's major metros suffered decline. It wasn't because they lacked bike lanes or some vague "creative class". It was economics. Period. There is a reason that Columbus is doing better than the rest in terms of growth, as it obviously didn't suffer from the same economic conditions of the past 30-40 years. And let's be honest, you have a serious personal bias against Ohio and Columbus in particular. If the metro had 10,000 miles of bike lanes and the most progressive public transit system in the world, you'd simply find something else to criticize. This is what you do, and you use threads like this as a way to try to legitimize opinions in which the goalposts constantly change. And Minneapolis isn't that special. The city's lost people every single decade since the 1950s just like Cleveland and Cincinnati, all with corresponding decreasing density. So for every point of praise you have for the city, it has seen no different results than Ohio's worst. And Columbus is growing faster.

Pittsburgh continues to lose people, just like some of Ohio's cities, and Columbus and Indianapolis are practically twin cities in many aspects. Aaron Renn, who regularly writes about Indianapolis, suggested not too long ago that Columbus may, in fact, be surpassing Indianapolis on growth and progress given latest trends. And most of Ohio's cities have great universities and great shopping, though I would say that QofL has little to do with how many shopping malls there are per capita. If you are trying to make a point that there are lessons to be learned between cities, I agree. But Pittsburgh can learn from Cleveland and Cleveland can learn from Pittsburgh. It's not all one way and to suggest it seems couterintuitive to the stated goal. If we are trying to attract people to Ohio and it's cities, the first thing we do should not be to point out how great you think cities outside of Ohio are in comparison, especially when the reality doesn't support it.

Still trying to figure out how Indianapolis or Pittsburgh have a better QofL than anywhere in Ohio. They're very different cities and Ohio is as diverse as any of the states they are in.

Well, regardless of what local news reports, the FBI numbers are what are ultimately used when reporting crime trends and determining federal funds, so that's what I chose to use. I noticed the differences myself, but as someone else mentioned, perhaps all the homicides were not counted as actual murders. For Columbus, the Dispatch lists 93 homicides in Columbus for 2011, while the FBI lists 87. Perhaps that is where the difference comes in. As far as Canton goes, here are the numbers. 2011 isn't available yet. Total Murder 1990: 10 1995: 12 2000: 7 2005: 4 2010: 2 Rape 1990: 76 1995: 86 2000: 66 2005: 57 2010: 54 Aggravated Assault 1990: 317 1995: 890 2000: 798 2005: 226 2010: 272 Robbery 1990: 376 1995: 471 2000: 283 2005: 381 2010: 324 Burglary 1990: 1,730 1995: 1,546 2000: 1,327 2005: 1,566 2010: 1,523 Larceny Theft 1990: 4,451 1995: 3,988 2000: 3,464 2005: 3,939 2010: 2,337 Motor Vehicle Theft 1990: 623 1995: 874 2000: 477 2005: 546 2010: 269 Total Violent 1990: 779 1995: 1,459 2000: 1,154 2005: 668 2010: 652 Total Property 1990: 6,804 1995: 6,408 2000: 5,268 2005: 6,051 2010: 4,129

The FBI has 3 homicides listed for Franklin County in 2010. The problem here is that Columbus extends beyond Franklin County, so some murders occur in Columbus, but not in the county itself.

This is actually untrue. I was born and raised in the south, and for years old-school deep south (aka backwards) states like Alabama, Arkansas, Louisiana, Kentucky, Oklahoma, etc. have been trying to figure out how to have the economic growth that exists in other states like North Carolina, Tennessee, Texas, etc. Obviously there's a different recipe for each success story, but low costs was only a marginal factor in TN and virtually negligible in NC and especially TX. Cost of living is actually very high in Dallas, for example, whereas Dallas (Houston being "Oil Capital of the World") is clearly the business capital of Texas, in a diversified sense. I know many of you yankee urbanists like to snicker at the big projects in Dallas, but the reality is that you could be dropped in Dallas and honestly swear you were in Chicago and be confused why so many TX license plates everywhere. Dallas has grown up, and it's become an completely enclosed, gentrified (or ghettofied) city. Economics are, by far, the biggest reason people move. Either for a job, retirement, etc. This simply cannot be overstated. The perception has long been that the South offered a low cost of living, but also a low cost to do business. Attract people, you attract jobs and vice versa. And every cost of living assessment I've seen has states like Texas and NC toward the bottom of costs. Ohio tends to be in the middle on most of these, but if you do a direct comparison, Ohio is on par with most things, and much cheaper on others, like real estate. The secret has and always will be young people - education, and then retaining those graduates produced by the education system. TX reinvested a lot of its oil profits in the 70s into making UT and A&M world-class research institutions. NC just did it without a massive cash influx to begin with, by prioritizing UNC and NCST over anything else. TN's main growth driver is the Nashville area, which is a mecca for research, with Vandy, medical schools, national research center in one of the southern suburbs, etc. Outside of Nashville, TN has benefited from low costs and especially a lack of union workers, as companies like Nissan and Toyota have demonstrated a strong preference to avoid union regions in establishing new manufacturing centers. Unfortunately. Young people are key, I agree, but you still need cost and jobs to attract them. I think you are overstating to some degree what singular institutions really accomplish in terms of long-term growth trends in a state. I'm sure places like Austin are helped by this, in the same way that Columbus is, but on a statewide scale, I don't think it matters nearly as much as being able to provide good-paying jobs for the graduates, no matter where they graduate from. Also, I disagree that unions are necessarily holding back Ohio vs other states. The state residents recently rejected legislation meant to curb union power, and since then Ohio's unemployment rate has dropped 10 straight months and has had the first or second most jobs gained by any state for a couple months already this year alone, including in May. A significant part of these gains was in manufacturing, particularly related to the auto industry. The unemployment rate is also almost a percentage point below the national average, one of the largest spreads in decades. The state is recovering well economically. Certainly moreso than places like NC, which continue to struggle with jobs and too many people moving there expecting the good times to come back at any moment. Education is always the most important factor, and having a highly-qualified (and public health is also a factor, being healthy) workforce. It's all about human capital that sets states apart, very little has anything to do with costs. Having low costs will attract non-union manufacturing (which is still good), call centers, Indian casinos, and low-skill service jobs - this is absolutely not a basis for economic growth. No Fortune 500 companies, R&D companies, innovative tech startups, or anything that can add skilled labor opportunities to your economy, are looking for cheap. They are looking for quality places to locate over cheap places. States trumpeting their low costs over their education and quality of life are actively repelling good jobs, as a matter of fact. That's all my home state does and they will never figure out why it doesn't work and why the economy is still 100% tied to oil despite other states like Texas successfully diversifying. Again, retaining graduates is important, but the only way to do that is to have jobs available in their fields. An educated workforce doesn't do any good if you have no companies to work for. And Ohio's not exactly at the bottom of the education heap, either, so I don't think the problem is that Ohio doesn't have enough college grads. And what's most interesting is that the South, including Texas and NC, have some of the lowest rates of job mobility in the nation, meaning that it's much harder to move up the ladder and gain success in these states vs Ohio. Most people seem to have no idea about that. Then it comes down to an absolute truism when it comes to economic development. Conservatives craft nothing but dangerous, regressive, backward policies and trumpet them as business-friendly. There is a reason that the most economically prosperous places are usually the most progressive (different from "liberal") in their region - NC and VA are a perfect example of how a state that turned progressive left its Dixie neighbors behind in the dust. If you compare the economic benefits of MS to MN, you'll see a very high-cost yet progressive state up against a very low-cost yet regressive state. If you are an R&D company that employs 200 people, but has a major ripple effect in the economy due to your innovations (in other words YOU are the ED cash cow every state is dreaming about), which state are you going to locate in - MS or MN? I would argue that Ohio is far more progressive politically than any of the Southern states. The largest private research foundation in the entire world is in Columbus, and Cleveland has nationally recognized innovative health facilities. It's not like Ohio lacks in the creative. It's just been that the state has seen 30 years of decline because of too much emphasis on too few industries, not to mention being at the butt end of the suburbia movement. Those things are no longer reality, so it remains to be seen if Ohio can continue its momentum and become a state people associate with success instead of burning rivers and industrial rot. I wanted to revisit this post because I didn't get a chance to respond. This is accurate economic development thinking... for 1990. You do however allude to what you're missing, which is the creative economy. Richard Florida has written the book on that, and he's taken exception with a lot of conservative AND liberal economists. I once saw Florida speak in a speaker's series we had in OKC a while ago, where he confirmed something we recognized in the 90s which is that while jobs are an important component of ED, that's more of an end result, rather than a means to an end. You won't attract jobs if you have a low quality of life (QoL) because jobs are very chicken v. egg, people don't just go to jobs, but jobs go to people. Any good ED strategy must begin and end with QoL because above all you want people to take the job in your community, rather than the job elsewhere, because for qualified and skilled labor there are (or should be) abundant job opportunities everywhere. In addition to this, technology and C2C conferencing technology has exacerbated the reality that the creative class (which will be THE key to growth) can work wherever they want, and they don't even have to live where they work. This gets me to probably the most important point that anyone in this thread could possibly make. What is the goal here? Is it to have economic growth or is it to create a high QoL for Ohio residents? What is the point of ED if it doesn't = QoL? In so many European countries they have a high QoL but their population is not growing, despite economic growth (although obviously no economic growth right now due to Austrian-style austerity). I think it's very possible that if you focus on education and QoL, promoting innovation, that you can make Ohio a better place that young people would at least be unlikely to leave. Growth actually leads to more problems, ie., sprawl, infrastructure, etc., that you can avoid as long as you aren't sliding backwards and losing jobs. Unfortunately, Ohio may not be able to avoid population growth if it is enhancing QoL and promoting innovation... What exactly indicates that Ohio lacks in terms of QoL?

I can't speak for the other crimes, but murder is fairly easy to keep track of. And, I'm pretty sure we had closer to 25 murders in 2010. (and even fewer in 2011) 2011 doesn't seem to be available yet on the FBI site, that's why it's not listed here. And you're right, it was 25 in 2010. I had it as 25 on my spreadsheet but put it down wrong here. Changed it on the list.

April 2012 Metro Unemployment Rates, highest to lowest. 1. Toledo: 8.1% 2. Youngstown: 7.8% 3. Dayton: 7.6% 4. Cincinnati: 7.1% 5. Akron: 7.0% 6. Cleveland: 6.7% 7. Columbus: 6.4% 6 of the 7 largest metros had unemployment below the national average. Only Toledo was right even with it. City Unemployment Rates, highest to lowest. 1. Youngstown: 10.0% 2. Dayton: 9.2% 3. Cleveland: 9.1% 4. Toledo: 8.9% 5. Akron: 8.0% 6. Cincinnati: 7.6% 7. Columbus: 6.5% County Unemployment Rates, highest to lowest. 1. Lucas: 8.2% 2. Mahoning: 8.1% 3. Montgomery: 8.0% 4. Summit: 7.1% 5. Cuyahoga: 7.0% 6. Hamilton: 7.0% 7. Franklin: 6.5% Metro Civilian Labor Force, highest to lowest, and change April 2011-April 2012 Cincinnati: 1,097,400 +1,300 Cleveland: 1,084,800 +9,800 Columbus: 954,200 -500 Dayton: 407,400 -2,500 Akron: 369,100 -4,500 Toledo: 316,000 -4,200 Youngstown: 264,300 -2,600 Metro Employment, highest to lowest, and change April 2011-April 2012 Cincinnati: 1,019,500 +15,800 Cleveland: 1,011,900 +16,300 Columbus: 893,300 +10,200 Dayton: 376,300 +3,500 Akron: 343,200 +1,100 Toledo: 290,200 +300 Youngstown: 243,700 +1,700 Metro Unemployment, highest to lowest, and change April 2011-April 2012 Cincinnati: 77,900 -14,500 Cleveland: 72,800 -6,700 Columbus: 60,900 -10,600 Dayton: 31,100 -6,100 Akron: 25,900 -5,600 Toledo: 25,800 -4,400 Youngstown: 20,700 -4,200 Metro Unemployment Rate change April 2011-April 2012 Dayton: -1.5 Youngstown: -1.5 Akron: -1.4 Cincinnati: -1.3 Toledo: -1.3 Columbus: -1.1 Cleveland: -0.7 Total Non-Farm Jobs, highest to Lowest, and change April 2011-April 2012 Cincinnati: 1,008,100 +17,300 Cleveland: 987,900 -8,800 Columbus: 930,000 +12,200 Dayton: 380,000 +4,000 Akron: 320,600 +2,100 Toledo: 301,000 -100 Youngstown: 224,400 +1,000