biker16

up to 8% grades

the biggest difference between a low floor tram and low floor bus is the space the wheels take up, on a bus with such large wheels, and clearances for steering and suspension movement, the volume of space lost to them is quite large. alos the streetcar pictured is about 45 feet longer than the hl BRT. as for the seating depending on the layout, which in the case of TTC model, has doors only on one side and it network's tight 11 meter turning adius, well below the standard LRT standard of 25 meters. for comparison the HL bues have a 13.2meter turning radius, Portland's streetcar is 18 meters. there are different seating needs for different routes, a circulator system needs fewer seats and more space for standees, because the rides are shorter, while a route like the HL or blue line need more seats and less room for standees. Flip up seats are a good compromise between, peak and off peak capacity. Portland's urban circulator. Blue/green line bombardier flexity

It is a 106 foot streetcar.

let be a bit less Rainman about replying to your post. I think it would be a great idea to have something tangible on the ground in cleveland for people to touch and see. especially in comparison to the current blue green LRT and the HL BRT. notice the integrated bike racks

Subways are about 250-500 million a mile Streetcars 10-25 million a mile Light rail 25-50 million a mile Elevated rail (estimated) 40-120 million a mile. for $100 million you get .2 -.4miles of subway 4-10miles of streetcar 2-4 miles of light rail .8-2.5 miles of elevated rail.

you raise a number of good points, The current carrot for redevelopment has been using tax abatement to attract development dollars. even with tax abatement the city still captures the income tax revenue form the new resident or business. With a TIF you can exempt any school tax from the TIF, limiting it only to non-School revenue. You can also use TIF and tax abatement together and Start the tax at zero and in increased valuation after X number of years goes toward the TIF. it would not be the same as the 15 year Tax abatement today but maybe, 3 years full tax abatement then TIF every year after. Either the way we need to capture the added revenue from the investment in infrastructure. For the HL, any increase in non institutional development in UC would be part of the TIF, and anything is better than nothing, I would not mind asking the major institutions in the city to Agree to a form of support for transit line because it is in their best interest to support transit especially the warm and fuzzy kind we are advocating. It is also worth noting that UCI is almost entirely funded by institutions like CC, UH and CWRU, they volunteer to fund it they did not require a tax to make them do so. Even in a SID it is not unheard of for Non profits to contribute even though they are tax exempt. I am not saying they will but it never hurts to ask. you should note that the UCI has pushed hard for the park and ride the UC option for the Blue Line. I think RTA is leading From behind, I can't blame them they have aging rail infrastructure that consumes 40% of their budget, yet only attracts 20-23% of their riders. (from the mouth of Joe Calabreeze.) It is time for the municipalities of our area to embrace walkablity and transit, realize the limitation of Growing areas like Ohio City downtown and UC with car oriented development only. Would you support a similar initiative in downtown cleveland? compare KC to Cleveland 2000 residents in KC vs 10,000 in downtown cleveland. the $25 million is a federal Urban Circulator Grant, which has been used to great effect to establish streetcar systems in US cities.

whether the HL did create 4.2 billion or not TIF would have been able to capture a the increases in property tax revenue. instead of nothing. In KC, their street car plan is based upon the creation of special improvement district (SID) to fund the Streetcar. similar to what has been crated in Gordon Square, Ohio City and downtown, i expect if UCI doesn't have a SID yet it will as development outside of Non profit institutions takes hold. why are Clevelanders so negative about their own potential? like Tuscon, KC or Cincinnati have so much more development potential than Cleveland does. If We had TIF in effect for Gordon Square, Ohio City or Tremont how much money do you think we could have raised over the last 15 years?

the TTC uses a wider rail guage that the rest of north america. in ordeer for it to run here you would need ew standard guage Trucks. the Shaker Rapid LRT car are very wide at 9’3” satnadard LRT width is 2.65m or roughly 8'8.3" because the TTC trams are designed for street going they are even narrower at 2.54m or 8'4" The global standard street car width is 2.4m or 7'10.5" the GAO did a study to find out why US rail projects are expensive. other than the small numbers of rolling stock purchased by each transit agency, it was the large variations in specifications that drive up the price. instead of ordering an off the shelf design agencies make expensive changes to the base model. checkout this site www.modernstreetcar.org www.modernstreetcar.org/pdf/Streetcar Vehicle Guideline Outline 2-23-12.pdf

for the tleath line I think the changes are self explanatory lakefront loop. complete network

Phased Streetcar concept. based upon the Portland model It is no longer necessary to have connection to the existing rail network, even though Portland has connection from the Tram network to the light rail network the trams are too slow and hold up traffic, for 90% of repair can be handled in the Car barn, and for the 10% that cannot it can be shipped to the main facility for repair. Starter system. Begins and ends at tower City feeds people from public square to the warehouse district, MMCC, 9/12 district, CSU, playhouse square, gateway district and east 4th. Market Square expansion The tram would beginning at tower City connecting with the RTA rail network around the edge of the Warehouse district move across the Detroit Superior bridge, head south on west 25th then east on Lorain and west on West 24th street where parking lots for the west side market present redevelopment opportunities. then head west onto bridge ave before heading north on west 25th, back to Detroit, over the bridge, right hand turn onto West Huron, passing by the phase II casino. near East expansion goal to distribute passengers from the CDB to TriC, also to distribute residents of the near by housing authorities into the CBD. this would begin at tower city center, take new Eastbound track in Prospect Ave, right turn at East 21st street left onto Carnegie, right onto East 22nd street southbound until community college BLVD heading east bound, right unto east 30th street right unto woodland ave right unto 22nd street left unto prospect ave ending at tower city. Gordon square loop Would utilize new shaker Rapid rolling stock to connect the east side directly to TRI-c, CSU, Playhouse Square and East 9th street. route exits the trench at East 34th street, connects with Broadway ave, makes a right at east 30th street, left turn onto, woodland ave connects with existing near east route into tower city Reverse loop/ outer loop. to improve service to the civic district and residential development around CSU, this would make a Counter clockwise loop. trough downtown cleveland Shaker Square to University Circle Blue/green connection to UC as the name states this would connect shaker Square with UC. peak weekday would provide direct service from blue and green line to UC and loop operation at all other times. would utilize Road ROWs, begins in a loop around shaker Square exits the Square on North Moreland blvd, for most of route platforms are located in the median, continues east on Fairhill rd, follows Coventry rd to Fairmount blvd, to cedar Rd stops at university cedar rail station, continues to MLK Blvd, make left turn onto Euclid ave westbound (enters Euclid corridor) continues on Euclid until East 93rd Street loops around on East 93rd Street back unto Euclid ave eastbound, right turn on Cornell Rd, left turn on Circle dr, left turn on Mayfield west , left turn onto Euclid ave, left turn onto, sterns Rd, on to cedar Rd, follows west bound route back to Shaker Square

I think once we have a working streetcar you will have the community begging for it expansion to their neighborhood. TIF is how Portland helps pay for it's streetcar system, the operating costs are not as high as people think they, but the capital costs are 10-20 million per track mile. if the health line can attract 4.2 billion dollars in new investment how much could streetcar attract? most importantly we cannot expect RTA to run this system the formation of a consortium of public and private may be needed to keep costs down.

you bring up some very interesting points. I think we need to step back and look to the private sector for operational funding needed to make transit work in out area. their are tools like TIF Tax increment financing that should be used to fund operation of new transit investment. in corridors where we are looking to install fixed guideway operation AKA( streetcars or heavy rail) any type of premium transit service should be funded by multiple sources, the municipalities, Special improvement districts, along with Transit authorities should pay for premium services. with TIF any additional tax revenue of the property with in an area surrounding the transit development would be used to fund the day to day operation of the service. For cleveland Tram network I would lean heavily on the city, SIDs and business community to commit to pay for a chunk of the service only then would I involve a regional entity like RTA or even the port authority for local match for federal or state grants. once this public/private structure is created it can operate with greater freedom than the RTA can, on wages, state laws etc. to attract more riders, I would create a free transit Zone in Downtown Cleveland and University Circle. where the trolleys. and travel within the zone is free. the formation of a basic circulation system that is free is the first step to greater transit use, because it creates pedestrians and every transit trip begins or ends as a pedestrian trip. pedestrian friendly is the key to modal shift. WE have areas like UC and Downtown where people want to be. we have to make sure that growth encourages walkablity and and encourages people to leave their cars at home. having a free transit Zone in these areas means that people can feel comfortable leaving their cars at home because everything they will need will be easily accessible. for the 20-30 thousand new residents to UC and DT, this means they can live without a car and or with only one car. which is the key to increased long term transit usage. pedestrian friendly, by default means unfriendly to cars. in UC in particular there is an opportunity to install 20 mph speed limits on side streets, opportunity to use extensive traffic calming, all of this creates a place welcoming of biking and walking and unwelcoming of cars. For downtown and UC It begins with tossing out the minimum parking requirements for residential and commercial development and a formidable Tax on every single parking space in the area. not the 8% tax right now but a fixed assessment based on ever parking space available. non profits included something along the lines of a $500 fee per space per year could raise $13 million on the estimated 26,000 spaces in downtown cleveland. To me the key is to offer a vision of non automotive based transportation, so that people in areas without out walkablity and transit want it and want to be around it. this happens in places like Chicago and San Francisco where suburbanites come into the city without their cars, and enjoy the walkable transit oriented communities. A world where visitors to downtown park their cars at park and ride lots 15-50 miles away and our whisked into the urban core at 100 mph. but you first must make the urban core walkable and an exceptionally desirable place to be, without a car. the advantage for the city is that people that use public transportation stay longer and spend more money, than people in cars. it is the urban fabric that make people want to live in the city.

forget about the tunnels, you want more capacity on the healthline your need STREETCARS.... why because they can hold a lot more people my personal project. Health line BRT Width 2.6 meters Height 3.3 meters 130inches 10’ 10” Length 18.54 meters 60 feet Step height 14 inches Seats 47 Max capacity 100 Weight 20 tonnes Turning radius 13.4m Fleet size 23 Length of route 6.8 miles Potential replacement fleet Bombardier flexity 2 freedom 5 module Standard gauge Width 2.4m -2.54 Length 30.8m 101 Height 11’10” 3.6m Floor height 14-12.8in Weight (empty) ? Max weight 48 metric tonnes Wheel diameter .65m Seats 64-70 Seat + standees 132 crush capacity 181 Top speed 70-80kmh ~50mph Max acceleration 1.2 m/s Voltage 600-750 volt http://lrv.ttc.ca/Meet_Your_New_Ride.aspx Toronto is buying 205 of these vehicles. they use the same voltage as our rail system. Boy this makes so much more sense and I would love to see these going down Euclid, but how much do you think the replacement would cost? I am researching the numbers for it. Toronto has a few special issues with its network: they don't use standard gauge for rail. they use on street boarding , where people have to enter traffic to board the Tram they use 600vdc not the standard 750vdc. (cleveland uses 600vdc) the train is also available in multiple lengths. from 3 to 7 car configurations. it is possible to link up to 4 trains together the 3 module version would be a good urban circulator.

forget about the tunnels, you want more capacity on the healthline your need STREETCARS.... why because they can hold a lot more people my personal project. Health line BRT Width 2.6 meters Height 3.3 meters 130inches 10’ 10” Length 18.54 meters 60 feet Step height 14 inches Seats 47 Max capacity 100 Weight 20 tonnes Turning radius 13.4m Fleet size 23 Length of route 6.8 miles Potential replacement fleet Bombardier flexity 2 freedom 5 module Standard gauge Width 2.4m -2.54 Length 30.8m 101 Height 11’10” 3.6m Floor height 14-12.8in Weight (empty) ? Max weight 48 metric tonnes Wheel diameter .65m Seats 64-70 Seat + standees 132 crush capacity 181 Top speed 70-80kmh ~50mph Max acceleration 1.2 m/s Voltage 600-750 volt http://lrv.ttc.ca/Meet_Your_New_Ride.aspx Toronto is buying 205 of these vehicles. they use the same voltage as our rail system. Biker, streetcars would have been stuck in traffic and not moving just like every vehicle on Prospect and Euclid last weekend -- and we ONLY had the casino (3-4,000 people) and and Indians game (25,000)... Suppose there was even another, bigger event. I know you love trams, but they need to be in tunnels in the center of major cities, like Cleveland, to maximize the surface space to allow for pedestrian movement. And the thing is, as I and others have outlined, between the Det-Superior subway deck, the unused Shaker platforms under Tower City, and the Van Sweringen tunnel turn-outs under Huron Rd pointing toward Prospect/E. 9th, PHS, WE HAVE the facilities to extend subways surface service throught downtown... why would you want to throw that away? It would allow downtown to grow in a healthier manner. then you close the street to thru traffic, and only allow people leaving the garages or going home to enter Euclid after games. they used to do this on prospect all the time after cavs games and Indians games when they . I am assuming that they did not do this. clvlndr I have been a bike messenger in downtown cleveland before when both the browns and Indians were playing in the 90s when with 42,000 Indians fans and 72,000 browns fans and rush hour traffic. it was messy but never grid lock because drivers knew what to do. do not your perceptions of on one event form an opinion that is not rooted in fact, if people were driving in the bus lane they needed a ticket, how long are we going to continue to build for the dumbest drivers in the world, and not for the smartest one? as the casino is open longer people will adjust they always do. but building for the once a year out of town driver is a dead end, downtown Cleveland's future lies with the residential development, not with the once a year visitors from the hinterland, We need to prioritize the needs of the people who are in downtown 365 days a year and not those only there 3-4 times a year, they must adjust to the urban form that embraces walking, riding, and transit not the other way around. because if we remove the median on Euclid it will undo all the work done to make the street more walkable, turn back into a desolate urban freeway 99.9% of the time and Again watch this video.

the Hl buses are being used so much I don't think they will last their design life (10-12 years) . I would think RTA would use them in their next BRT project the extension out to Euclid Square mall. having doors on both sides of the bus affects capacity for Clifton it would be better to use standard 60 foot buses that the 26 uses with doors on the curb side only.

forget about the tunnels, you want more capacity on the healthline your need STREETCARS.... why because they can hold a lot more people my personal project. Health line BRT Width 2.6 meters Height 3.3 meters 130inches 10’ 10” Length 18.54 meters 60 feet Step height 14 inches Seats 47 Max capacity 100 Weight 20 tonnes Turning radius 13.4m Fleet size 23 Length of route 6.8 miles Potential replacement fleet Bombardier flexity 2 freedom 5 module Standard gauge Width 2.4m -2.54 Length 30.8m 101 Height 11’10” 3.6m Floor height 14-12.8in Weight (empty) ? Max weight 48 metric tonnes Wheel diameter .65m Seats 64-70 Seat + standees 132 crush capacity 181 Top speed 70-80kmh ~50mph Max acceleration 1.2 m/s Voltage 600-750 volt http://lrv.ttc.ca/Meet_Your_New_Ride.aspx Toronto is buying 205 of these vehicles. they use the same voltage as our rail system.

congestion is too many people driving in the available road space at the same time. congestion is good because it provides a disincentive to drive. 99.9 percent of the time Euclid is well under capacity. you don't build a subway for that .01% of congestion. even during rush hour drivers know to avoid Euclid ave, it was the influx of unfamiliar visitors that caused congestion as they become more familiar with downtown they will adjust, and hopefully use transit. do not fear that by gridlocked roads during an event will keep people from downtown, but fear a downtown that become more not less car oriented.than it already is. the Euclid corridor has become a pedestrian mecca, in downtown, why would you destroy that to simply make more space for cars? You cannot have a auto culture and pedestrian culture at the same time you have to choose one or the other. because they are not compatible with each other.

congestion is good thing. don't look for billion dollar solution to $2000 dollar problems. the solution is not to bury the streetcar but to enforce the laws that people can not drive in the bus only lane. Downtown Cleveland will either be built for cars, which means more parking, and less development or be designed for people, on foot, on bike and on transit. you cannot have both. watch this video.

Not to get off topic, but it's worth noting that the CC and the IX Center are being touted as two completely different animals, with the former attempting to attract professional conventions and the latter going for the much larger trade shows (ie: auto show, home & garden show, etc.). The operators have said as much, that the two facilities are actually complimentary and that the new CC will not replace the IX. There's a reason the IX is in the middle of a $30M expansion. and why is the IX center renovating? They know that the downtown center will be were most trade shows will wont to go. Although new, the downtown center cannot host super large events, but will take away from the IX, since there has been no competition. Once more hotels, restaurants and venues open near the new MM/CC, the IX will hurt because it has no infrustructure. Most conventions and attendees perfer to be in the city not on the fringe. I dont see the IX staying open more than a decade no matter what they do. the Ix center and MMCC are not in competition with each other, the MMCC with only 300,000 Square fet cannot hold the event the 800,000 Sq/ft IX center can. 20 years ago it was an option to build a 350,000sq/ft new Convention center downtown, that could be expanded another 300,000-400,000 sq/ft but that time has passed. officially from theAirport staff, there is not need for anther pair of runways to handle any additional capsity. to be blunt the market has change dramitically the price of oil is high and you can operate international flights with smaller aircraft, like the 787 which can land here with out issue. if there is a need for a 12,000 ft run ways CLE has the space to do it. as of now there is no need and the airport is well under capacity. even the idea of a pair of runways that crossed antohr piar of runways is out of favor with theFAA. the IX center is safe

old news: Toronto buys 204 modern streetcars. http://lrv.ttc.ca/ Vehicle Specifications Seating 70 Standing 62 (average) & 181 (maximum) Length 30.20 m Width 2.54 m Height 3.84 m Weight 48,200 kg Maximum Service Speed 70 km/h

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/the-state-of-nova/post/arlington-fairfax-bringing-streetcars-back-to-life/2011/09/28/gIQAknkV5K_blog.html

http://pedestrianobservations.wordpress.com/2012/05/17/high-and-low-speed-rail-coordination/

new dorms on Euclid new student center south garage Rec center, new facades on the law building and main classroom. the new courtyard next to moes on euclid.

buses create exernalies, where the roads they destroy/use are maintained by the city in which they operate. those roads needs heavy repairs far more often than rails and catenary do, while a rail net work can last a hundred years with proper maintained the same cannot be said for roads which require replace far more often. If you could some how have the cities pay for the maintenance of the rails the way they for roads I think the costs move further in favor of the streetcar. unfortunately now the act of placing rail in the road means 100% ownership of those rails. something BRT does not have to account for.

http://www.politifact.com/oregon/statements/2012/apr/03/charlie-hales/do-streetcars-really-beat-out-buses-capacity-rider/