inlovewithCLE

No one said “do it alone” but no one even attempts to bring them back. And that’s disrespectful. It’s disrespectful that people want to build this brand new Cleveland without even trying to bring black folks to the table. Super offensive. Those houses that are in the renderings shown above are being built by a black company. The councilman is working to bring more black businesses and the black middle class back to that area. It’s really offensive that everybody is allowed to be catered to and targeted to bring in/bring back but black folks.

Well even Westlake has more than McMansions in it, right? So I don’t think, from my understanding, the plan is to have EVERYTHING look like that. But the truth of the matter is if we are ever going to attempt to bring back the black middle class, it’s gonna take a lot of houses like that. Many of the black middle class grew up in very dense environments and as a result are averse to them. There’s a reason why the black middle class decamped to places like Cleveland Heights, Shaker Heights, Warrensville Heights, Beachwood, Bedford and so on. I personally believe that it is critically important to the future of the city that the black middle class is part of the conversation. Many of them are the ones with black businesses (which even in 2020 still hire more black people than nonblack owned businesses), and if we ever want to stop the bleeding on the east side, we need the black middle class back. So I appreciate Hough at least attempting to fight for that demographic. I don’t see anybody else doing so. The city of Cleveland has 36 neighborhoods. At least one of them can have McMansions in them lol

Correct. Both neighborhoods were devastated but the devastation that Hough dealt with was unreal. Also we have to remember that part of what led to the unrest in the first place was overcrowding, so even many current Hough residents are density averse. Long memories there. Which goes back to my point that they’re building it that way on purpose

So there’s several thoughts that I have on this. 1. In general, I think Cleveland is big enough to have neighborhoods with styles that appeal to different people. As a result of the suburbanization of our region for so many years, it is embedded into the culture. And it’s embedded to such an extent that even some city lifers demand suburban amenities. So as a result, I don’t mind that Hough has “Streetsboro” (as someone else put it) houses. I want people to live in the city. Stay in the city. Plant roots in the city. Have families in the city. If that means there has to be one or two neighborhoods that are built like suburbs in the city, so be it. 2. We gotta look at the pre-riot history of Hough. At one time Hough (and Glenville) was a very wealthy neighborhood. And the interesting thing about it is if you go and talk to many current Hough residents, they know that. It’s been passed on to many of the current residents of what Hough used to be. Those houses and the way that they are built is seen by many in Hough as a restoration of their former glory. 3. It’s also clearly designed to appeal to the people who work next door at the Clinic, UH, Case, etc. The people who can afford to go get a McMansion anywhere. And I think it’s smart to give them a close alternative to moving out of the city (or the county in some cases). 4. People also have to keep in mind the time in which these houses were first built, many of them. That period of time was the real acceleration of black flight (the black middle class following the white middle class out to the suburbs). Those folks were moving to bigger houses, larger plots of land, etc. So in some ways, these houses were also designed to fight to get the black middle class back. To get them back from the eastern suburbs. Many of the black middle class who grew up in smaller houses, with smaller plots of land and the houses closer together, had (and have) no desire to go back to that. They want the life they have the option of living in the suburbs. And this is designed for that. It’s partially an attempt to tackle something that few people on this forum or in the city in general discuss: how to get the black middle class back into the city. That’s a huge issue.

These houses were built on purpose in Hough. That was intentional, for many reasons. I personally think it’s a good thing

That’s the Zulus. Black motorcycle club (the private club across the street)

Cause questioning why a project this large has no black contractors is “race politics”. Got it

That wasn’t an allegation to you directly/specifically. I don’t know you. What I meant by that was when it really comes down to it and the rubber meets the road and real equity has to be placed in this thing, we see who’s really about it and who isn’t. I don’t know if that’s you or not, but I think it’s totally fair to break down what the choice is so you have the option to let it be known whatever side you choose to be on

So in other words, if they hire a couple of black folks, we should just be happy with that? SHW left themselves vulnerable to this by not even bothering to have one black contractor as part of this project. That’s ridiculous. If they had‘ve shown the effort to bring ONE black contractor, this wouldn’t be a conversation. And since you say this is a “political play”, what does a productive dialogue about this look like to you? What would be the ideal outcome to you? Cause to me, hiring a couple of Black people (when anybody who cares and pays attention to this subject knows that the one of the biggest ways to positively impact the black community is to spend money with black owned companies, who still statistically hire more black people than other companies) isn’t enough. It shouldn’t be controversial to ask a project this big and a company this big to do business with ONE black contractor. And it’s disrespectful that there isn’t one there already. Yes I still want the project to go ahead, but let’s not pretend that it’s an outrageous ask for SHW to have ONE black contractor participate in this project

Yes in the big picture the best thing for the community as a whole is jobs and investment, but if a significant segment of the community is locked out of that (the part of the community that’s as of now still half of this city), how do you expect people to feel?! It’s not good enough to just say “well they can get some jobs there”. All these people giving lip service because it’s vogue right now but still spending money the same way. That’s a problem. Black owned businesses still statistically hire more black people than businesses ran by others, so if you actually want to positively impact the black community in a direct way, DO BUSINESS WITH BLACK OWNED COMPANIES. Its not that complicated, and it shouldn’t be controversial to ask for that. And to be honest, it’s kinda shameful that SHW doesn’t have at least ONE black contractor as part of this project. Not a single one?! Come on. That’s disrespectful. Of course I understand the big picture and I understand the importance of having this project in SHW, but as a black man I can understand black people being frustrated with this company not even bothering to do business with a single black contractor, especially in this day and age when people are falling over themselves pretending to love black people. How much effort is it to have one black contractor? One?! Out of what, 13 companies that is a part of this or something like that? It’s shameful that there’s even a fight over that. They could’ve at least shown the effort to throw a bone to SOMEBODY. Especially when your city is 50 percent black. There’s no excuse for not doing that, and there’s nothing anybody says here that’ll make that ok to me. And again, I still want SHW to be here. I still want this project to move forward and succeed. But we really see who actually cares about improving things and who doesn’t when conversations like this come up. It’s not that much to ask for SHW to bring in at least one black contractor. Period.

It’s not going to, I still support the project, and I think it would be silly to rescind. However, isn’t it fair to ask why they couldn’t have a single black contractor in the project? Not one?!

Paging @KJP

My response was to the idea that we as a region are over saturated with retail. And when people say that, they never think about the lack of retail in many areas of the city, places that should have more retail and, depending on the location, have the people to support it. But we always make this blanket statement that “we” are over saturated with retail. Not in the city we aren’t. Which is why I said what I said

I LOVE that building.

But it also gives midtown a way to leverage that status to attract more investment in the area

No. I mean Cleveland, the real city lol

I feel the need to point out that while the “county” may be over saturated if you will with retail, the “CITY” is not.

Exactly

Only thing I wish is that it was being built in Cleveland proper lol. (Seriously!) But this looks like a great win for Warrensville

Wait, there’s a Kamm’s magazine? Lol

So it’s not going to be the same in the new plan?

That’s what I’m concerned about. Kamm’s has a lot of things that can be capitalized on but if nothing is done, decline can happen

Why has there been no movement on this?!

I’m surprised too. I’m really surprised that there isn’t a Lifestyle Center of some sort in Kamm’s, particularly when you look at the median income there and the suburbs bordering it. Seems to me too like there would be huge opportunities in that neighborhood

I think it’s more likely to engulf Glenville and Hough and Fairfax than stretch into East Cleveland in a meaningful way, because of the incompetence of the East Cleveland government. EC should’ve merged with the city a long long time ago. The business community doesn’t trust the EC government. And why would they? But I digress