inlovewithCLE

Sounds like a cup of diabeetus lol. Is it really sweet?

Anything that moves this project forward, I’m all for it. (And I really hope Cleveland Live is still part of this project. We need that). @KJP do you know if it’s still part of the project?

Would they though? Maybe as an online brand. I think that would work

Allard’s writing is garbage most of the time, but this was a pretty good one

Any word on what kind of retail they’re targeting for this development?

It’s hard to negotiate from a position of strength when you are not at a position of strength. We need SHW more than SHW needed us. They wanted to stay, but they didn’t HAVE to stay. Many mistakes in this city have been made by people stupidly trying to negotiate from a position of strength that they did not have

Playing chicken with thousands of jobs when you need them more than they need you is a really stupid strategy

It’s an entertainment district ??‍♂️

Didn’t know they had a bar there. That’s a cool idea. I’ll have to check it out when we’re all allowed back outside (I know we can go to grocery stores but I’m assuming the bar is shut down for now)

Centennial is breathtaking. I love this project for several reasons, one of the biggest is it’s like us reclaiming our former opulence. We deserve it damn it. It’s beautiful for our city

I’m less concerned about them building on top of it as I am with them putting storefronts at the base. To me, that’s critical

This could be transformative

Excellent

I’d rather have a garage with retail storefronts than a parking lot. But we’re fooling ourselves if we think available parking doesn’t matter in this city.

It’s not just suburbanites. It’s Clevelanders too. I’m an African American Cleveland lifer, born and raised. And like I’ve said before on this forum, black folks don’t like catching the bus either. It still has a huge stigma attached to it in our community. We want ample parking too. Not just suburbanites. That’s the nature of NEO

Good luck with that. The region just isn’t like that. Too much sprawl, not enough people. That’s not to say that we can’t get more people to use transit if the system was improved. I think we could. But the way NOT to do it is to deliberately price people out of parking downtown. Not only will that not love people onto public transportation, that’ll cause people to skip downtown altogether.

It better be if you want people in the area to come downtown. This is an auto centric area, like it or not.

Agreed

Is there anyone interested in doing that?

Agreed. I didn’t support that but it’s obvious why a lot of people do

And I explained why I said that, because the example that you used doesn’t apply in most cases in 2020

No this isn’t an Architectural gem, nor very significant in terms of historicity. Of course there’s a difference between something like the Schofield and this. And the comparison is flawed anyway because you’re talking about the 60s, I’m talking about today. Meaning, we’ve had the “benefit” of seeing the effects (social, economic and other) of leaving buildings vacant and dilapidated for long periods of time. We know what it does to neighborhoods, to communities, to property values, we know that they tend to be magnets for crime, etc. We know this already. The current state of this building is awful. It’s probably one of the most dilapidated buildings left in Ohio city and it’s an important corner because it’s almost at the border of OC and the next neighborhood and you want that seamless transition, so that development can continue to stretch down. So for some to say “I’d rather this stay like it is if I can’t get what I want” is civically irresponsible. ESPECIALLY for a building in this condition. ESPECIALLY when we know in 2020 what these type of buildings can do to the area around it.

He should be called out on this. If he’s willing to shut down a $100 MILLION dollar development then he should have to explain what the alternative is, not something in the abstract but something concrete. If he’s willing to shut down a $100 million development without any real alternative then he should have to answer to the citizens of the city for that

Sure seems like blind obstructionism, at least on Zone’s part. He just doesn’t want icky retail. What’s mind boggling to me is that he thinks there’s going to be some grand plan to develop the muni lot. The muni lot is separated from the rest of downtown by the highway, essentially. As long as that continues to be the case, forget about it. Zone would be ok with this land being empty for another 15-20 years waiting on his ideal situation, which is ridiculous to me. This is a multimillion dollar retail development, in a city that needs it, in a downtown that needs it, and something that actually has the chance to be a regional draw. And people are making the same arguments here that they did against Steelyard (and they were wrong then too). People never learn a damn thing from anything