inlovewithCLE

Is the news related to potential tenants?!

Ha! Me too! @KJP is slowing down productivity in the Land right now! Lol

Oh snap! I’m down!!! Let’s go. Lol

And I picked the 70s as a reference point because it was essentially one of the worst decades in our city’s history (massive population loss, bankruptcy etc) so of COURSE I wouldn’t want to go back there

What in TF are you talking about? It’s literally impossible for something to be exactly like it used to be. That’s what happens with time. Everything is in a forward moving fashion. Nothing stays the same. So for you to say that I’m negatively comparing the city of today to its past by saying it will never be what it used to be is ludicrous and you just not wanting to admit that you were wrong about what I said. I JUST told you that I believe in many ways the Cleveland of today is BETTER than the Cleveland of the past. You are the one assuming that by me saying that we won’t be what we used to be that I’m saying that as a pejorative. That says more about your thought process than mine. I personally think it’s great that our downtown buildings aren’t covered in soot and our river isn’t catching on fire and we have some neighborhoods in the city that people want to move to instead of running away from. I think it’s great that our city’s economy is more driven by eds, meds, arts and health care than our manufacturing history (while still important). YOU are the one that continues to say that I’m making a negative comparison. I’m literally telling you twice now that I’m not. Personally I think there was a lot of things in that old Cleveland that sucked. The only thing I wish we had from back then is the population size but I could do without a lot of the other stuff we had back then. I like this Cleveland better. So again, tell me how I’m not literally saying what I literally just told you that I’m literally saying for the second time now

Did I say “Cleveland will never be a great city again?” Did I literally say that? Or did I actually say “the city will never be what it used to be”, meaning this isnt going to be the Cleveland of the 70s. Why do you assume that means that it’ll be worse? I’d argue that in many ways it’s BETTER than the past. That’s my point, stop living in the past. Old Clevelanders always negatively compare today’s city to the city of the past. I’m saying to stop doing that. We can have a different city. A better city. As long as I’ve been around this blog you should know from my post history that I don’t believe this city can’t be great again. I mean, look at my damn screen name for goodness sakes. I said what I meant, there was no need to read into something that I didn’t say when the point I was making was the exact opposite of the assumption you made, which was to appreciate where we are now and stop looking backwards and using that to judge forward movement. I’m very deliberate with my words, I say what I mean and I mean what I say. You never have to guess what I mean. If I didn’t literally say that, then that’s not what I meant

Stop this. Stop this, stop this, STOP THIS. Stop with this Woe is us, “this is how it always goes in Cleveland” crap. STOP THIS. You can literally look around at the city and see what has changed. You cannot sit here and say that this city is the same as it was 10 years ago, even 5 years ago. Our biggest enemies are ourselves and this negative ass, pessimistic, toxic ass “battered resident” syndrome. It’s a virus. It infects our people. It infects some of our politicians and civic leaders and even some of the business community. This is why I keep harping on this. This has to stop. LET IT GO. Yes we’ve been through a lot. Yes things are still harder than it should be to get done here sometimes. We get it. We get it. But MOVE FORWARD. Stop acting like we’re still in the 1970s. This city will never be what it used to be but if you value what it’s becoming, you can actually appreciate the good things that are happening. We’ve GOT TO STOP THIS.

Only 20 percent of the property is in East Cleveland. So wouldn’t this still be largely considered a Cleveland development?

Agreed on all points. The barbershop is the black man’s country club. You can have several in the same block and all have different clientele

If they shut this down they better damn well have concrete plans to develop the land

Why is this so hard for people to understand?! You’re exactly right

(One more time) An outlet mall is not the same as a regular suburban mall

U ain’t getting any economic engine if the area is perceived to be unsafe. And we already know that some developers are hesitant to build over there because of those perceptions. Putting the police headquarters there does help alleviate those concerns so indirectly it does impact economics (not to mention the impact of infusing 600-1000ish workers in the area). So putting all that negativity to the side and looking at it logically, there’s logical justification for doing it

That was a fun nightclub though

They have other open spaces on the prospect side. Nothing wrong with that Taco Bell

Everything you said has nothing to do with either of their politics. You took that shot just to take it. I’ll leave it at that

See this is what I’m talking about. It’s not just right wing rich people in public-private partnerships (and let’s stop treating public-private partnerships like it’s a swear word. It can do a lot of good depending on the project). And the Arena is literally publicly owned. Like literally. And wow the Higbee building sure would’ve been nice if it was still mothballed. ? I don’t want to hijack the forum so I’ll end on this note. That comment about his politics had no value to the conversation about the development itself at all, it was just an excuse to dunk on him for things you (seemingly) disagree with.

I love Steelyard. It’s great to have those brands in the city. As a born and raised Clevelander who almost always had to go to the suburbs for stuff, I’m glad we have that here. It’s amazing how many people were wrong about Steelyard and how many people are making the same argument with this

Here we go with attacking his politics (which has nothing to do with nothing) ?

Has anybody heard anything about what the announcement is supposed to be

This is probably the most reasonable oppositional take on this that I’ve seen on this forum lol. I disagree with the meat of what you’re saying but bravo for sound reasoning

You missed like everything I said lol. And I don’t want to bog down the forum so I’ll leave it alone

I reject your premise but just for the sake of argument, let’s use what you said. Would you rather not have those 80,000 people downtown at all? Would you rather those 80,000 people be in Richfield or something? And if we’re going to pretend that none of those 80,000 people ever go to downtown streets for anything (and if we also ignore the fact that most of the time those 80,000 people are in that stadium it’s cold and if they’re going to go to a downtown venue, they’re probably going to drive anyway BECAUSE ITS COLD so you wouldn’t see them on the street anyway), those people do still buy stuff and contribute to admissions taxes and sales taxes and support the people who work in the stadium itself (many of whom live IN the city of Cleveland). And let me pose a question: is it MORE likely or less likely that at least some of those 80,000 people would stop at those stores (and restaurants, don’t forget that, which is really smart on the developer’s part) if this massive development is ACROSS THE STREET? Better yet, would visitors to the Rock Hall do the same? Common sense says probably. So yes I’d rather have those 80,000 than not have them, and I’d rather have this in the city than not

Why do we keep acting like this is the same as a regular mall? Not only myself but several others on this forum have brought up the FACT that outlet malls are RISING (and in many cases thriving) across the country, and people keep ignoring that and acting like this is a proposal to build a regular mall

They don’t want both because it doesn’t fit “THEIR” vision. Smh. And for the record, you’re absolutely right, but it’s all or nothing in some corners around here