inlovewithCLE

I know I’m in the minority here but I love it. I think it’s a great idea and will attract people who may not ordinarily come downtown or to the city in general

Building it in the suburbs makes sense if your goal is to make the team fail. If you actually want to succeed, CSU or somewhere in or right outside of downtown makes the most sense

Say it one more time for the people in the back! This isn’t Sim City. Your development has to respond well with the real people in the area.

“A new hip-hop and R&B station has debuted in Cleveland. The REAL 106.1 will broadcast the latest music including songs from J.Cole, DJ Khaled, Chris Brown and more. To commemorate the launch, the station will play 10,000 commercial-free songs in a row.” https://www.news5cleveland.com/news/local-news/cleveland-metro/new-hip-hop-rb-station-debuts-in-cleveland

Touché

If we’re so vein and self-absorbed that we’d rather something as significant as this not get built because we don’t like its design, then shame on us

This is huge news!

Depends on the will of the local business community and politicians. If they have it, it's a very doable project. If not, it won't happen. Here's a document I created eight years ago to convey what rail/multimodal stations say about other cities and their desire for connectivity and access (you have to rotate after opening -- sorry!): http://freepdfhosting.com/8b1369c85e.pdf What are the thoughts of local leaders on this?

i dont think anyone is arguing that gilbert isn't doing anything in cleveland or not taking risks, the only issue is to what benefit for cleveland. if he pays local call center employees, then takes $1.5B local people's money away in the casino over the years, the city may or may not be benefiting overall. that seems to be close enough with the give and take there to be a wash. however, the excitement and crowds downtown of the lebron years probably put it way up in the positive side, and he did take a bath twice now when lebron left re the value of the cavs dropping, so those are big factors. so i am going to side with gilbert doing well for cleveland overall. its just a shame he is a carpetbagger because we see he is doing so much investment back home in downtown detroit --- maybe if phase II of the casino isnt going to happen at least throw cle a new apt or office building bone, danny buddy! I didn’t know that Dan Gilbert’s people were standing outside with guns making people go to the casino. “Taking local people’s money away?” Please. You have a choice to go or not go to the casino. And then if you do choose to go, you have a choice of how much you spend or not spend while you’re there. The casino is an entertainment option just like anything else. Nobody is “taking” your money if you choose to go there voluntarily. Stop it

I disagree that we don’t need it. I actually think we do. It doesn’t have to be gigantic but one of the reasons Hard Rock is so successful is their shows. I think that would bring an element downtown that we don’t currently have and it absolutely would lead to even more diverse acts coming here

I’m in complete agreement with KJP. And like the old saying goes “scared money don’t make no money.” In a city like ours where you’re trying to grow, in many cases you need taxpayer dollars to stimulate that. We have a city that needs to grow in an area where the entire region is stagnant. How the hell are you supposed to do that without actually making investments to do so? To me, thinking that you can grow in this environment without public investment THATS the magic bean approach. Any growth in Cleveland that we’ve seen is actually growth that has happened in spite of the state of our region, not because of it or in concert with it. And the progress that we’ve had has been the result of an enormous commitment from the public sector. Most of the things that we love in this city, the things that have attracted people downtown, the things that have given us hope that we’re going in the right direction, almost none of it would’ve happened without taxpayer dollars of some sort. Suck it up buttercup. It is what it is. That’s what happens when you’re trying to grow a city in a stagnant region. You have to do those things so that you can get to a point where you don’t have to anymore. But that doesn’t happen without the initial investment in many cases. It is what it is. As far as the Med Mart is concerned, the criticism of the current state is baffling to me. There’s so much criticism of public officials here (especially Mayor Jackson) and one of the criticisms that I’ve seen is the abject refusal of some public leaders to admit when they’ve made a bad decision or even when a good decision just isn’t working right and reverse course. But in this instance, public officials realized the original course wasn’t working, they changed direction, got the occupancy rate up and that’s a BAD thing?! How? That just sounds like people who want to complain about the project no matter what. To the blockchain development directly, we need to see more before we understand it’s impact on the economy but I know what the potential is. And if this thing can create a bunch of jobs, and it takes taxpayer money to do it, you do it. Period. Point blank. End of story. Everybody talks about rebuilding the neighborhoods and I’m all for that. I agree with that. But if there’s no jobs then you’ll have a bunch of nice new houses with nobody in it. We need jobs. Jobs attract people, and if this can bring jobs, so be it. Let’s stop acting like we can’t walk and chew gum at the same time. It’s not rebuild the neighborhoods vs targeted business investment. The good cities do both.

I had a meeting once with the browns at the stadium. And we step outside and this lady walked up and she’s like “is there a restaurant here?” The people working there say there’s nothing open at the stadium now. This was out of season, no preseason, nothing. And she said “oh ok. At [whatever city she’s from, I don’t remember at the moment] they have a restaurant at our stadium that’s open all the time, even when the team isn’t playing.” I’m like wow why don’t we have that? We don’t have to move mountains, we could do more even with what we have

I don’t even think this is a market issue. You can count the number of NBA/NFL/MLB arenas/stadiums that are built without public funding. It’s just not the reality in most cities. Especially in situations like ours where the teams do not own the arena/stadiums

Keep in mind that technically Dan Gilbert does not own the arena. So there are certain things that the government is obligated to do as a result of being the actual owner of the building. And contrary to popular belief, the cavs did put some money up for the transformation. The city/county government isn’t footing the entire bill.

I don't understand this project and how it's going to create jobs and add to the economy. Looks like its just for aesthetics, making the arena more pleasing to look at. I don't understand what the added space is for? I know this is going to go down a rabbit hole and as a result I’m hesitant to answer, but as someone who works in the entertainment industry in the city, the Q transformation is important. It’s more than just more space. The most important thing is that it keeps the venue competitive for concerts and other events. The upgraded amenities are key. When people have choices as to where they book shows in our region (and in this sense I mean surrounding states too, not just greater Cleveland) you HAVE to stay competitive. It has such a ripple effect if you don’t. It has an immediate effect on the people who work for the Q and the ancillary businesses and nonprofits who are supported by the activity there, people who in many cases are NOT the fat cats we think about when it comes to this project. It also impacts the people who book shows elsewhere in the city, particularly those who deal with mid level celebrities (not necessarily indie groups/bands or people that aren’t really known). The performance of your big arena is often a barometer to the outside world of the strength of your market in general. So if I’m someone who books certain celebrities to do concerts and/or appearances (which is part of what I do) Cleveland is a much easier sell if bigger acts are still coming to the Q because to the other performers it sends the signal that the city isn’t dead and that there’s money to be made here. If the Q (which is over 20+ years old now) does not upgrade to continue to be competitive, bigger acts won’t come here. If the bigger acts (which typically have one Big Bang and are out) don’t come here, the mid tier acts (who can have an even more direct impact on the economy because some of them tend to use local people to put on their show and can often become repeat customers if you will) won’t either, because if your arena sucks, even to an artist who will never draw enough to be at that arena, they’ll go “why should I perform here? Such and such can’t make money here, they don’t come here anymore so if they can’t make money here, I KNOW I can’t.” The Q is a huge direct contributor to the local economy. If it didn’t exist, we would feel it. But even more important than its direct contributions is its indirect contributions, which few people appreciate or are in the position to see it first hand TO appreciate it. An updated arena isn’t a panacea, but to a lot of the outside world it’s part of what makes you a big city. It’s part of what keeps you relevant. Without that relevance, you become Anytown USA. And not only do I not want to live in Anytown USA, it’s hard to do business in Anytown USA and bring the cool things here that the average person wants. So that’s my two cents from my perspective. It’s more than just more space. It contributes directly and indirectly to our economy

To me this is a sign that this project needs to be broken into smaller pieces. Start with that parking garage and it will be generating (some) revenue as soon as it is complete! You do that though and you take the chance of the full thing never getting built

First look: True Cocktails and Bites to bring restaurant-club hybrid to Cleveland Flats https://www.cleveland.com/entertainment/index.ssf/2018/08/first_look_true_cocktails_and.html#incart_m-rpt-2

Well (and to bring it back on topic here) I believe a 10,000 seat venue would be perfect for both. That is the sweet spot, I think. I think that would be suitable for the Force and if CSU decides to use it. There’s a way to build it so that it can be multi-tenant oriented

I get your logic, but I just think that is WAY too big for both CSU and the Force

I’m not sure they could fill that size of a stadium right away. FirstEnergy is massive.

From my understanding, the Browns charge an arm and a leg to rent the stadium. CSU may be better off building their own

Again, this is NOT the topic at hand, so I’ll jjst make this one last point. But I think you’re viewing CSU with the wrong lens. You’re looking at CSU through the prism of what they used to be instead of what they’re becoming. They’ve spent the better part of a decade becoming a more traditional university. A football team would fit right into those plans. And as others have said, this is a football talented region and there needs to be opportunities for players who can’t go to OSU for whatever. And if the team is good, people will show up. I’ve seen 10-12,000 people at an Arena game here. People WILL show up if the team is competitive. And a successful football program would do wonders for CSU and the community as a whole. But once again, that’s not the topic at hand and I don’t want to derail the conversation

Not to derail the conversation cause that’s not what we’re here to talk about, but I’m all for CSU getting a football team. And I hope it’s in the MAC or something like that. I didn’t know that was actively on the table, I know it was discussed before but I didn’t know they were pursuing it. I’m 100 percent in favor of it. If they give scholarships and the team is actually good, I think people would be surprised at the amount of folks who would come out to watch it. Back to the Force, that’s not a bad idea to possibly team up with CSU and share some sort of new stadium. It could kill two birds with one stone, and give CSU a good tenant right away for a new small stadium

Welcome back. Your contributions were definitely missed

“Low paying retail jobs” help people who don’t have a job. I’m from the hood and I know a lot of people who would LOVE to have one of those jobs you sneer and turn your nose up to. And you put it as a black/white either/or proposition. It’s both. Of course we need to give people skills for a lifetime career. But what you’re basically saying is “stay unemployed until we can get you into a job that I think is ideal for you” instead of meeting the immediate need of a job right now. That’s ridiculous to me. Sorry, but it is. I think about all the people who would be hurt by your way of thinking on this, turning up your nose at “low paying retail jobs”.