inlovewithCLE

I've actually never seen these peninsulas so I'm having a hard time conceptualizing them and it's potential. Where is it exactly

http://realestate.cleveland.com/realestate-news/2016/12/centric_project_in_university.html "After five years of planning, several redesigns, logistical snarls and a reconfiguration of the development team, a large apartment project finally is moving forward where University Circle meets Little Italy. A financing deal closed this week for Centric, a $70-plus million investment that will add 272 apartments, 27,000 square feet of commercial space, a 360-space parking garage and two-thirds of an acre of public green space to the city's arts, educational and medical district."

I don't know if this was ever physically possible but I would've loved if they had've relocated the racino there. Now it's probably gonna be mixed use but I'm like you, I want to see something done there like yesterday lol

This is a screenshot from the developers 2016 annual report, it talks about the project, I have also included text of what is going on with some of their other projects as the challenges could be similar here. Glad to hear that they have progress on it and that retailers are showing interest. Depending on how it's built and what the mixture of stores are, this could be a gigantic draw for the city How could this ever be a gigantic draw? This developer builds lower end brand outlet malls next to interstates. There are already two of these in the area at Aurora and Lodi. It won't be a regional draw. Pittsburgh, Columbus, Detroit and Buffalo all have outlet malls of their own. There's nothing unique going into this Outlet Center and it could be built almost anywhere else in the city. We'll see after it's built. (And by the way, I clearly said "depending on how it's built and what the mixture of stores are")

You do realize that many low income people work at those hotels and restaurants that you're perfectly ok with seeing shut down right? So let's say that happens. Is that going to make the situation with low income people better or worse? Furthermore, that's a false choice to begin with. We should be able to walk and chew gum at the same time and deal with both. And finally, from someone who grew up low income myself, the best thing to help low income people is to have more opportunities for them. You get more opportunities by access to jobs and you get more jobs by nurturing the growth of the businesses currently in your city and especially by attracting new businesses. And those businesses want amenities. No business (including my own) wants to be in a place with nothing in it. So it's extremely short sighted to try to make this one vs the other

This is a screenshot from the developers 2016 annual report, it talks about the project, I have also included text of what is going on with some of their other projects as the challenges could be similar here. Glad to hear that they have progress on it and that retailers are showing interest. Depending on how it's built and what the mixture of stores are, this could be a gigantic draw for the city

I don't think anyone is saying that you should have nothing but a Downtown filled with restaurants and bars but it's foolish to not have it and it's doubly foolish to willingly do something to harm what you currently have

When Lebron came back, downtown bars reported an increase of 30 to 200 percent on Game nights. That is a FACT. The county tax receipts went up. Economic activity overall increases in Cleveland on game nights. That is also a FACT. If you think there would be as many downtown restaurants surviving without Cavs game nights downtown, I have beachfront property in Oklahoma to sell you. Not to mention the fact the the new arena will allow us to continue attracting major events which add another event night to a market that's built around event nights. All of those are facts. The NBA has already said that we're likely to get the All Star game with the transformation happening. The Q is our MSG. I'm amazed at how many people here have no understanding of how The Cavs in general and the Q in particular impact the downtown market.

Preach, preach, preach! Lol. And people bring up Vegas, well guess what? Vegas WANTS sports teams. i wonder why, maybe because they see that it's worth it to have? They are going to have at least 2 of the big 4 and don't be surprised if they end up with 3 or all 4 of the big 4 by the mid-2020s. And people keep comparing us to markets that are smaller than us. If that's how they view the city in their mind, that's their business. But last I checked (which was yesterday lol) we are still a major market. And it matters. But by all means, let's strip away our sports teams, our arts facilities, and anything that we've used public dollars to pay for and just fill potholes. ? Now I will say that Browns stadium people have an argument for. We should've demanded a dome. Still not too late. But funny thing happened when the Browns left town: it made the city look bad on the national stage. When you are in a locale that has a bad reputation and not viewed as the hipster paradise mega city that we should all bow down to, you need to be doing things to get more attention to yourself on a national stage in a way that you can control the narrative. The Cavs had a lot to do with making the perception of Cleveland cool among people who aren't on forums like this. Lebron's first run here basically created the demand for East 4th Street and most of us know that. I work in the entertainment industry here and i can tell you, I would not still be here if we weren't a major market with major market stuff. It makes it hard to retain talent and it's a harder sell if there's NOTHING HERE. Where am I supposed to take a client to for a night out in the city, Starbucks? ? And we STILL don't have enough to do. I can't tell you how many times I've been with celebrities here (local or national) that was looking for clubs or somewhere to go and party and it was either closed or it was dead because it wasn't a game night. We are still an events driven market. I've done parties here too and unless it's specialized with your own built in audience like we have, it's extremely difficult to get people in Cleveland to come out just for the hell out it, especially outside of the summer months. So in the fall and winter months, a lot of our downtown establishments LIVE on sports, concerts and other event traffic. I know that for a fact. That's how they survive. And a lot of people here would be perfectly fine with losing all of that. Sure, let the facilities get dilapidated and let the Q stop getting major concerts and events, then we can create the hipster paradise that people seem to want. And I guess this is just a fundamental disagreement and difference in philosophy that I have with many of you here. Many of you want to be Portland. I want to be a micro New York. That's WHY I support the sports teams having competitive facilities, that's WHY i support public funding of Cleveland arts, that's WHY I like big and flashy and attention grabbing stuff in the city, that's why I support the movies filming here, that's why I support all of that. We are a major market and I want us to behave like it. Some of you are content with acting like we're in the bottom 20 instead of the top 20. Your preogrative I guess

Keep in mind though that the retail won't just be pulling from residents. There's tourists there too

EXACTLY! Thank you! Without our amenities, Cleveland doesn't become Portland. It becomes Akron. And no offense to any Akronites but I don't want to be Akron. I want to be in a major city that looks and acts like a major city and has major city stuff. Sports (and the arts) are the things that make a major city major. And you're absolutely right that we would lose people without our sports teams, particularly people who either work FOR those teams or the people who have ancillary work because of the existence of those teams. Without our teams, you would lose at least: both ESPN Cleveland and The Fan and most of its employees, at least half of the restaurants around both arenas who basically survive off of sports and event traffic and couldn't sustain itself otherwise, and you would lose relevance because the sports teams (particularly when they are good) get you on the national spotlight. Hell, even the Browns are guaranteed at least one national game a year as long as TNF exists. Getting the national spotlight matters, especially for a city like ours which isn't in the best climate, isn't a college town, and isn't in a state flush with oil money and two other major markets. Cleveland is the biggest media market in the state and the 18th largest media market in the country. Austin is 45th. Columbus is 32. There's only 4 cities in the top 20 that don't have all 3 of the "big 3" sports teams. We're a major market. We SHOULD have more teams than the 32nd or 45th largest media markets

First of all, I love the plans. Love, love, love it. It's needed to keep us current and relevant. But second of all, this whole debate over the arenas and sports teams and if they're a wash is just nonsense. First of all, the Quicken Loans Arena is home to more than just the 41 Cavs home games (and playoff games). It's more than the home of the Monsters and the Gladiators. It is THE place for major concerts by major acts and other events. No Q? No RNC. No Q? Major acts don't even SNIFF this city. And it matters. I can say personally that in my field I've had a business deal that was directly related to the fact that Lebron was in this city. IT MATTERS. Ask those downtown businesses if they would rather not have the Q or our 3 professional sports teams. Ask the city leaders if they would rather not have that brinks truck of money that gets dumped on the city when we have major events or nationally televised games. Sometimes some people in this city are so short sighted. If we tried to pay for the publicity we got from the Cavs and from the RNC we wouldn't have been able to afford it. The bottom line is: Do you want to be relevant or not? Are we a major city or not? It's real simple. Either we are a major city or we're not. And if we are, then act like it. People have more of an argument concerning the (stupidly) non-domed FirstEnergy "Factory of Sadness" Stadium because of how little it's used outside of Browns games, but the Q has 300 events every year. It is our Madison Square Garden. Do people want that to go away? I don't. I have no interest in being in a minor league city. Sorry, I don't. No offense but I'm not interested in being in Akron or Toledo. And part of the quality of life in this city and its attractiveness IS being able to go see the Cavs or the Indians or the (sigh) Browns and even things like Playhouse Square and the Cleveland Orchestra. Those are the things that help make you relevant as a real city.

Some people are just clueless to the needs and desires of a demographic group outside of their own

And prices would drop if there were MORE OF THEM. Going right back to the point you and I have been making. We need more of them

Crime and schools are clearly important but it's more than that. If our housing stock isn't conducive to what people want now, that's a problem. If there aren't enough things for your kids to do in the city (and there isn't), that's another problem. You have to create places that people want to live in. Yes it has to be safe. Yes the schools have to be good, but it also has to be inviting to people with children. And few of our neighborhoods currently are that

Just saying that now that I have a kid, I'm now spending very little of my free time in the city. For just one example, google "indoor playgrounds, Cleveland, OH" sometime and you'll see what I mean. Cleveland is a desert for that kind of stuff, and that's just one amenity. I'm no longer the single guy looking for a hard drink, a great meal and some epic talent/scenery. Addressing that will help Cleveland retain some of its young adult population. You're absolutely right. We will never get the population growth and retention that we want if we don't make a concerted effort to be more family friendly. Don't get me wrong: I love downtown. I love Ohio City. I love those places. But if we don't have places to retain these new people currently living down there, we're gonna lose them.

Then it must be another show

That would be really cool if theybshot antv show here. Very steady work for the crew. It's a complete game changer. Permanent work

Well I spoke of the rehabs simply because according to these population stories on Cleveland.com. Cleveland's population can grow again if it can meet housing demand. Depending on the condition of the home I assumed that rehabbing and preserving these unique structures could allow the housing stock to keep up with demand and still keep the unique characteristics of the neighborhood..........potentially. The problem, which is what I think KJP was alluding to, is that a lot of this housing stock is out of date. So regardless of whether it can be rehabbed or not, some of these homes need to be demolished anyway because there's no demand for them. And if the rehab is abnormally expensive (for example because the house has been exposed to the elements or it's been stripped) on top of that, it's better to just tear it down

I don't want to go too far into this because it's off topic but I will say this: it would not be good for the city of Cleveland to have a failed city on its borders. EC council dropped those dumb demands a while ago. And nobody seems to care about the people that are still there. It would be better for them to not be in a failed city either.

The market that matters is the market here locally. That's what matters. If you can't get the investors to give you the money in THIS market to build it in THIS market, it doesn't matter where it's "all the rage" at elsewhere. That's the bottom line. You have to deal with the realities on the ground in the market in which you live. Now if u got a billion dollars and you can spend what you want, then go for it

Who knows how long that will take

Yeah but if you don't have the restaurants, then you aren't getting that money either. So that's not something to be poo-pooed either. Yeah schools and jobs matter too but no one wants to live in a city with nothing in it recreationally, especially millennials

Agreed. That's not happening

I doubt they are going to go in a presently existing building. They want more efficient office space and the only buildings downtown with that kind of vacancy are...not efficient. Lol. It's going to be new construction and I think they stay downtown. At least that's what they've said