inlovewithCLE

i love the new tower of light. Great addition to the campus. I'm so thrilled with all the new thing going on at CSU. And I'm not an alumni or anything, I'm just happy to see this progress. All CSU needs now is to give me a local college football team to root for :wink:

I have a question because I'm just ignorant to how this works. I'm a big fan of this new Ohio energy development. I just want to know if and how this would positively impact Cleveland. Will it impact indirectly as a benefit of Ohio's economy as a whole, or is there a more direct positive economic impact?

@CleveChiNola, what events do you need a stadium for that an arena or convention center can't provide? Plenty. Superbowl NCAA Championship Game Wrestlemania Certain major concerts. Could help attract an RNC or a DNC. Like someone said earlier, this is about reintroducing Cleveland to the world stage. Period. The fact of the matter is a stadium without a dome will NEVER, EVER get as much use as a stadium with a dome. Common sense. Could we use it more during the summer months? Yeah. But even then, everyone's not crazy about having an event in a place exposed to the rain. OR if its too hot. Its not just about the snow. Its about the elements in general, which is always more extreme close to the lake. Haslam is NOT talking about a hotel or entertainment venue. He's talking about a dome. His answer was in direct response to a question about a dome. He said in August that he's interested in lakefront development so that may come down the line, but make no mistake, Haslam was talking about exploring the possibility of a ROOF.

I LOVE the dome idea. Its stupid that CBS doesn't have one, at least a retractable one.

Roldo is a pain in the ass. He's the ghost of Cleveland Past. Lol. And not the good past. All he does is complain about EVERYTHING. And I mean EVERYTHING. I don't know if I've seen him write anything positive in recent history. He's trading off of who he used to be, but he's really just morphed into the city's resident "get off of my lawn" guy.

@KJP, the first time I've seen that article. Good catch. What stood out to me the most was "Key also plans to save money by consolidating office space and renting some out. "We're going to do a lot of work around occupancy," Mooney said"

@KJP, Good points. I guess I'm just worried about having another empty ass Ameritrust complex situation. Lol. That's a huge building. There's also the possibility that another large tenant currently in the city or outside of the city could want this building, but that's a big risk to take. I wouldn't want this large, beautiful building to be vacant.

KJP, Completely hypothetical, but if they do decide to build a new building, what's the best use for this one? My instinct is to say apartments/condos but that's an AWFUL lot of apartments and that's a project that I would be concerned about having the possibility of flooding the market. So as much as I love the idea of a new office tower being built, what do we do with the old one if they go that route?

http://www.crainscleveland.com/article/20120903/SUB1/309039966 From Crains Cleveland Business: "KeyCorp is indicating to developers and property owners that it might want to build a new headquarters in Cleveland, though some real estate brokers believe it may be expressing such interest in order to extract a better lease deal at its current home, the 57-story Key Tower. A property development source familiar with the situation said KeyCorp has asked more than one downtown developer to provide office alternatives for the company. The source said Key wants less space than the banking company occupies now at 127 Public Square. 'They are not looking to downsize (staff), but want a more efficient layout,' the source said." Thoughts?

@Clevelander17, its not insulting, its life. It happens all the time. An institution or an organization decides to go in a different direction, a BETTER direction. Obviously, the people who benefit from the status quo tend to get left behind at times. Sucks. But that's how it goes sometimes. The plan is clearly working. Dorms are selling OUT. The Langston, which was NOT originally for 4-year students, has had to move students in because the other dorms are all sold out. The success of the plan is not up for debate. That's obvious. You may have a problem with the plan but it is clear that it is working. You're obviously left out of this plan. Sorry. [stuff] happens. But arguing that they shouldn't be doing this is the equivalent of arguing that Uptown in UC should've never been built because it would displace the customers of the McDonalds and Mr. Hero that used to be there. I'm willing to have that debate. lol. Surely you're entitled to your opinion. But its very short-sighted to believe that the best thing for CSU and the city of Cleveland is for CSU to be a glorified Tri-C.

I think it will always remain a commuter school. What percentage of students live on campus now? I bet that number still pales in comparison to the number that commute and will for the foreseeable future. Which is good, because CSU has a niche in the region and the state and shouldn't be trying to vary from that too much. Either way I'll be finishing my program in May and likely won't ever step foot on CSU's campus again. I'll be taking my business for further education elsewhere. Oh wait, I think my post needs one of these :-P so you know that the tone wasn't malicious. Speak for yourself.. CSU is a great place and definitely becoming a residential campus. No doubt Amen.

Very good point Cleburger. I've always felt that's a key element to our appeal as a city period, not just CSU. Go after people in those really small towns that want that big city living and Cleveland is just big enough and has the amenities of a big city to get that unique experience but isn't so big that its overwhelming. I'm glad CSU recognizes that in their strategy.

Its clear to anyone paying attention that the tide is turning at CSU. That's obvious. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that if the trend keeps happening then eventually the people who live on campus will overtake the commuters. And its absurd to see that as a negative. Its only a negative for people who don't fit the current direction. I get that. But hey, sometimes progress leaves some behind. I'd rather have the progress, thank you.

I could've sworn I remember some people on here saying that CSU would "ALWAYS remain a commuter school".... :-P CSU welcomes its biggest freshman class Even as new apartments continue to go up at Cleveland State University, the school marked another kind of building boom on Saturday. The largest ever freshman class was moving into CSU dorms nearby. The university's 1,100 dorm rooms sold out by the end of July, including 300 that were completed last year. "That's something we've never done," said school spokesman Joe Mosbrook. The overall influx of 1,550 freshmen is an increase of 222 over last year. As cars pulled up to the Fenn Tower and Euclid Commons dorms, the license plates gave a hint of how the class achieved its size. There were people from Illinois, Virginia, and New Jersey with New York, Pennsylvania and Michigan providing the biggest share of out-of-staters. Incoming Ohioans included students not merely from Cleveland's outer-ring suburbs, but from counties around Ohio. http://www.cleveland.com/metro/index.ssf/2012/08/csu_welcomes_its_biggest_fresh.html#incart_river_default

Generally speaking, I agree with X's point. I think that far too often, some here have this "I don't give a damn" attitude about the poor. We can't just shift all poor people in the city of Cleveland to Central. So I am sympathetic to that view, because I've seen that antagonistic attitude as well. HOWEVER, THIS is different. This is a problem area and it makes the areas around it less safe. I'm no suburbanite scared at the sight of more than 3 black people, but I don't like going even past there. Its unsafe, its hideous, and I would argue that its not doing much for the people that use it either. I would prefer a mixed-income development. I think waiting for this to become market rate would take too long and I'm not crazy about the idea of removing EVERYBODY. But that current piece of garbage should be torn down and a mixed income development should take its place. That's a much better use of the land and it doesn't completely shut out the current residents. But just to make one more point on this: philosophically I've always been against the idea of all low income developments like this one. I feel like if a development is all low income, it does nothing but concentrate poverty. I don't know how that helps everyone. I think that mixed income developments where you hold everyone to the same standard is better for everyone. It creates more understanding and a better cultural bond. I've always felt like concentrating poverty is a really bad idea for the poor themselves. *soapbox off*

What is it going to take to put public pressure to do something about this dump? I'm for affordable housing as long as its done smartly, is attractive, and selective about who they let in there, but this is ridiculous. This place needs to go, NOW

@MrNYC, that's why I mentioned using the original version of the Borough Presidents, not it in its current form

I hope that one day we can have real regionalism and stop patting ourselves on the back because we're buying salt together. Nickel and diming, smh.

There's a good amount of that going on right now among suburbs. For example, Walton Hills uses the Northfield Village Fire Department. Northfield Center and Sagamore Hills Townships share a fire department, and the Center doesn't have a police force, it has a sherrif's station. This is my area, so they are the ones I am familiar with. I suspect there are others. Also, privatized trash collectors are, in a way, regionalism. What suburbs aren't interested in is sharing services with Cleveland. The water department would be a classic example of why. Tell that to South Euclid, who is practically begging the state to change the law to allow Cleveland to pick up South Euclid's garbage

@KJP, you bring up a very good point about what the Cleveland City Councilman said about merging with East Cleveland. My question is, politically, what would an annexation look like as opposed to a "merger"? Is there a difference? Because I would assume that outright annexation (ie: the Cleveland annexation of Collinwood, Ohio City, etc.) would be of a better benefit to Cleveland than a merger. Is there a difference? @Clevelander17, you ask a very good question. I hope someone can answer that. What is the bare minimum that needs to be done in order to be able to count the county's numbers as one Cleveland? Could we possibly have a system like the original version of New York City's Borough President system? Keep the mayors of the municipalities but as Borough Presidents or whatever you want to call them. I don't know how that would look for the city councils, but there has to be a creative way where we could merge enough to count all of our numbers as one while staying separate enough to make this politically palatable and get this thing done.

There is a 97 PERCENT occupancy rate downtown. Apartment buildings downtown have 3 and 400 people waiting lists. And we're still not where we need to be. We need roughly 10,000 more residents, give or take. Nickel and diming apartment projects isn't going to get us there, and waiting until parking lots are developed before you take low hanging fruit like this tower is almost a guarantee that we'll be waiting until 2060 to get to the number of residents we need. No thanks. Convert the building to residential. If its high quality and reasonably priced, it'll be snapped up. We have enough market evidence to know that now.

I don't know why its even being speculated about the county moving here. Its not gonna happen. The building is too inefficient for modern office space. They're not moving here. I think they've been pretty clear on that. Plus, I don't think they want anything to do with this entire complex anymore because of its political baggage. So I say, apartment conversion or tear it down cause the county is not moving there. That's not even an option.

I shopped a few times at DU, and would agree primarily with the sizing issues and selection. I really liked the store and wanted to see it work, but in the end there was only so much I could actually buy that would fit. Also, I think we can't discount what retail we do have downtown. There is a Brooks Brothers, Victoria's Secret, Champs Sports, Gamestop, Footlocker, jewelry stores, discount shoe stores, local stores, etc. in Tower City. Today there is retail right in the center of the city where you can in fact buy name brand shoes, undershirts, underwear, socks, shirts, a suit, etc. Is it what it can be or once was? no. but it isn't like there isn't some significant retail that still exists at Tower City. We basically have a flagship Brooks Brothers store right on public square. VERY good point about Tower City. I think many people here poo-poo TC because it's an underachiever, but we do have name brands in Tower City and they seem to do okay.

The fact that you would "never step foot" in those stores is clouding your view. Those stores obviously aren't for you. Yes, name brands are needed downtown. Yes, name brands are probably the only form of retail that would work downtown currently. And even those would likely have to be subsidized in order to make the numbers work. If you think a store like DU is what will work as the ANCHOR of downtown retail, you're kidding yourself. It can work, but not alone. It needs those big name brands downtown not order to have any customer base to target. Period. You can dispute it all day long but the facts don't lie. DU is closing unfortunately. But, as the old saying goes, I'd bet you a dollar to a bucket of s*** that had this been a subsidized Hollister, it would still be there. It's not about whether you would set footings some of these stores. It's about the general public.

@w28th, saying that's why Higbee's/Dillards didn't work is a stretch, no? Yes, like it or not, its going to take name brands to have retail work downtown. Like, REAL name brands. Brands that regular people know. AND, let's be honest, most people obviously didn't give a damn about that the clothes were designed in CLE and made in America. Not enough people cared in numbers large enough to matter. Obviously. That's indisputable now.