inlovewithCLE

And Clevelander17, Miami's population is not that much bigger than we are. Look it up. It wouldn't take much to match them in size. And I don't mean to post back to back but I just had to address this. I fundamentally reject this mentality that we just have to accept being a "bottom feeder" city. That is a mentality that is characteristic of "old Cleveland" and is part of the reason why we've had such a big hole to dig ourselves out of in the first place. You say we just basically need to accept that we'll never be in the upper tier. I say, no. We don't have to accept that. If you choose to accept that, that's your business. Will we be New York? No. In our heyday we weren't New York. But I don't care about being New York. I care about being one of the premiere if not the dominant city in the midwest. Period. I don't need to be New York or Los Angeles. The dynamics of the midwest are different than the coasts. So we can't be New York. But we can certainly be the New York of the Midwest and I see no reason not to go for it. We don't need 8 million people in Cleveland. If we can get back to 500,000 that's good and if we can get higher than that, that's the icing on the cake. But I have to categorically reject this defeatist mentality. Mediocrity is a choice, not a life sentence.

First of all, it DOES matter if inner ring suburbs do or don't merge with the city. A strong city is necessary for the region. Its harder to do that if you're surrounded by "suburbs" that are essentially Cleveland-lite. If suburbs increase dramatically in size it will only marginalize the city and increase the competition among municipalities, making our current situation worse, not better. You cannot have a county with 1.2 million people in it with 59 municipalities. It defies all logic and common sense. EVERYBODY knows something has to be done about it eventually. Its inevitable. But no one wants to do anything about it because there's no way to do what's necessary without someone being unhappy. This will not work long term. Eventually this system of having 59 municipalities for 1.2 million people is going to collapse. The question is whether anyone has the courage to do anything about it. And yes, population size DOES matter. Its more than just access to government grants. If you have the image of being a shrinking city, it makes it harder to attract people to come to your city and keep the ones you still have. Less people equals less tax revenue. Less tax revenue equals less revenue for schools and the essential functions of government. Less revenue for those things cause a decrease in job opportunities for your residents (because few businesses want to be associated with what appears to be a broke and dysfunctional city). That leads to an increase of despair and hopelessness in a city which leads to an increase in crime which leads to a further exodus of people, which starts the cycle all over again. Population DOES matter. The city must be strong in order for the region to be strong. You can't be a suburb of nowhere. In a perfect world, I would prefer Cuyahoga County to merge with the city. I doubt this will ever happen because people are territorial and have this stupid fixation with having their own little fiefdoms. To me, Lake county should be considered the Cleveland suburbs, not other municipalities in Cuyahoga. So since I don't think that will ever happen, these are the options I think are more likely than a full scale merger (although I'm not sure these will happen either because of what I mentioned above): 1)Focus on merging the city with several of the inner ring suburbs - I look at East Cleveland, Brooklyn, Garfield Heights and possibly Lakewood as good candidates for a merger with the city. All four of those suburbs are struggling financially (and I believe at least two of them are in fiscal emergency). It would definitely be a mutual benefit if they merged with the city. City gets the increase in population and an increase in the tax base and it saves money for the taxpayers of those cities because of the combination of services, etc. 2)Merger of the city and the county in a hybrid "Borough" type system - Merge the city and the county together but with a Borough type system where the current mayors of the municipalities become "Borough President" of their area (who would be elected by the residents of that former city) and they still do the non-essential functions of a mayor while a city of Cleveland mayor would be elected by everyone. This way since people are still hung up on this stupid stuff, they get to keep their mayors. Either way, the fact of the matter is our current system is unsustainable. Something must be done. The question is are we going to wait until suburbs start going bankrupt before we do anything about it?

Brandmuscle, a company in Beachwood, is looking for new office space and downtown Cleveland is one of their options. Here's hoping they choose downtown. http://www.crainscleveland.com/article/20110919/SUB1/309199991&template=mobile

I don't know how I feel about this liquor store thing yet. On the one hand, I'm a bit uncomfortable with it. On the other hand, I hate being a development snob so I'll just withhold judgment until I see the full plan.

As a city of Cleveland resident and an advocate of annexing East Cleveland, I would be DEAD SET against any plan to split the city between Cleveland and Cleveland Heights. I would rather let East Cleveland stay as an independent city than to allow the city of Cleveland to get ripped off by Cleveland Heights. I feel very strongly about that. East Cleveland has a ton of assets but it also needs a ton of work. If the City of Cleveland has to do the work, then it should reap the benefits of all of E.C's assets. Either we annex all of it or we annex none of it. CH shouldn't be able to just cherry pick the nice parts and leave us with Baghdad. All of it or none of it. Also, in my opinion, when the idea of merging an inner ring suburb is an option, the goal should be to make the city bigger, not a suburb bigger. In outer ring suburbs, it makes more sense for them to merge with each other. But it makes no sense to take a suburb that is basically surrounded by the city and merge it with another suburb.

Residents of other cities that would annex it (Cleve, CH, Euclid, etc.) would object. They would argue that annexing EC would strain their already strained resources. Whether this is true or not.... I have not heard anyone argue for splitting up East Cleveland between Cleveland, Euclid and Cleveland Heights. (And as Hts noted, East Cleveland does not border the city of Euclid at all), and if they did, I'd be against that. Several years ago there was talk of annexing East Cleveland and splitting up the city between Cleveland and Cleveland Heights. Well, Cleveland Heights wanted to take all the nice parts of East Cleveland and give Cleveland all the crappy parts. I'd be totally against that. East Cleveland is worth the most to Cleveland if Cleveland takes ALL of it. There's still several Millionaires Row-era houses on Euclid Avenue, for example, and a Historic district could be created in that area in order to preserve the houses still there and restore the houses in decay. (East Cleveland has the most Millionaires Row houses still up in the region). As was mentioned earlier, East Cleveland's Forest Hills Neighborhood is a gorgeous neighborhood and would be an asset to Cleveland immediately. Nela Park is an asset. So in order for it to work, in my opinion, Cleveland would need to take all of it. If that doesn't happen, Cleveland would likely get the short hand of the stick and shouldn't do it. All of East Cleveland should be annexed.

Exactly. Last I checked, Frank Jackson was the mayor of CLEVELAND, not Beachwood. As far as the story is concerned, it seems like the deck was stacked from the get-go. As you say, their ties to the region are weak. I wondered why they would take incentives to move to downtown Chicago when Ohio would have gladly gave them incentives to stay here and if they wanted to be in an urban environment, the city of Cleveland would have gladly gave them incentives to do so. I think the bottom line in this case is this: this company just wanted to move to Chicago. Period. It's so "old Cleveland" to immediately attack our city leaders (which isn't even applicable in this case) as if we HAD to have done something wrong (either by omission or commission) to cause this company to leave. Doesn't seem like it to me. It seems pretty simple. They wanted to be in Chicago. Fine.

:clap: That is EXACTLY my point. Completely agree. Fixing East Cleveland is not optional. It must be done in order to secure the long term viability of Collinwood and University Circle. With even acknowledging that the city of East Cleveland is much, MUCH safer than it was in the 1990s, just the mere perception of a lack of safety is enough alone to threaten the stability and growth of the surrounding neighborhoods. Whether Cleveland or East Cleveland fixes it, SOMEBODY needs to fix it. I just believe strongly that East Cleveland can't fix itself as an independent city and only Cleveland can fix it. No, Cleveland isn't the richest city in Cuyahoga, but we definitely have more money than E.C. And more important than the money are the resources that the city has in terms of federal grants, infrastructure, etc. The bottom line is no reasonable person can expect University Circle and Collinwood to thrive for decades to come and still keep on its borders a city with neighborhoods that look like mini-bombed out Baghdads. Its not going to happen. A "communicable disease" is a perfect way to describe it. Either you fix it or everything eventually dies with it. I argue that East Cleveland can only be fixed by being annexed to the city of Cleveland. But either way, fixing East Cleveland is not optional.

I sure hope so. I strongly believe that East Cleveland and Cleveland should merge asap, like, yesterday. I just think it would be better for everyone. There's just so much work to be done in East Cleveland that I'm not sure if they can get it all done on their own. If a merger took place, Cleveland's population would be immediately put back over 400,000 (E.C has roughly 17,000 residents) and the city has much more resources in terms of infrastructure, etc, which can help E.C and its residents. But yes, this is a very good thing. And could likely put Cleveland back at #1 for highest poverty rate. Also, Other than a couple of nabes that are doing ok, Im not so sure that Cleveland is able t handle their own neighborhoods very well. We shall see... I doubt merging East Cleveland with Cleveland would put the city back at #1 for highest poverty rate. The population of the city of East Cleveland is less than one-HALF of Collinwood. Merging the two would have very little, if any, affect on the poverty rate of the city. Second, either we're serious about regionalism or we're not. Period. East Cleveland is a prime example of a city that should not be there. It should be in Cleveland. If we believe that a county with 1.2 million people shouldn't have 59 municipalities then you gotta do something about it. Can't just give lip service to it. I do not have faith that East Cleveland can provide the necessary infrastructure to support large scale redevelopment. The City of Cleveland would likely be taking the lead on most meaningful East Cleveland development anyway, so why wouldn't you merge it? Its common sense. East Cleveland borders two very important and strategic neighborhoods in Cleveland, University Circle and the south side of Collinwood. I would think that it would help the development of University Circle and the redevelopment of Collinwood if those neighborhoods and their development corporations and their civic boosters could lead and guide development on the other side of their borders. Can that happen without merging, theoretically, yes, but its much easier if its part of the city. This way developers and CDCs, etc. only have to deal with one government instead of two governments with different rules, different bureaucracies, different red tape, etc. This absolutely should happen. You look at it as "this will raise the poverty rate up dramatically" (which it won't), but I look at it as "hmm, if the city of Cleveland had the opportunity to get its hands on the headquarters of General Electric Lighting, John D. Rockefeller Jr's Forest Hills Neighborhood (which, because of the way the house deeds were structured by JDR. Jr, has been remarkably stable in East Cleveland and shares a border with Cleveland Heights), have complete control of Euclid Avenue from Downtown to the border of the City of Euclid, one of the largest RTA transit stations around (Windermere), and access to a bunch of land for dirt cheap prices for University Circle developers, why wouldn't they do it?" Its a no-brainer. It is so "old Cleveland mentality" to look at the negatives and not look at the potential to have something great. The reason why some neighborhoods in Cleveland struggle is because transitioning a neighborhood into something new is painful for those who still live there and may not be in the big picture, post transition. In most cases, you can't just go into a neighborhood, tear it down to the ground and rebuild it in your image. But in East Cleveland, you have an area that was built for 40,000 people and it currently has less than 18,000 in it. That means that over half of the city is completely vacant. You could literally knock EVERYTHING down in over HALF of East Cleveland and rebuild it however you want because there's nobody there. You can't do that in Collinwood or Hough or some of these other Cleveland neighborhoods that still have people living in it. Yes, East Cleveland needs plenty of work. But it also has tremendous assets that I believe the city of Cleveland can capitalize on better than East Cleveland could ever do as an independent city.

They had one outside of their space at the Higbee Building. I was curious if they were going to put it up on this new space too. I LOVE those things. They're so New York. :-D

I sure hope so. I strongly believe that East Cleveland and Cleveland should merge asap, like, yesterday. I just think it would be better for everyone. There's just so much work to be done in East Cleveland that I'm not sure if they can get it all done on their own. If a merger took place, Cleveland's population would be immediately put back over 400,000 (E.C has roughly 17,000 residents) and the city has much more resources in terms of infrastructure, etc, which can help E.C and its residents. But yes, this is a very good thing.

And it keeps on growing... Northeast Ohio gets two more movies and a video game, courtesy of tax credit program Cleveland, Ohio -- Ohio's Motion Picture Tax Credit is doing boffo business at the box office. Five new projects that are expected to bring more than $17 million to the state have been awarded tax credits totaling $3.37 million, the Ohio Department of Development announced Thursday. The state gave credits to four feature films, two of which will be produced in Northeast Ohio, and one interactive video game. Northeast Ohio, most recently home to film crews from "The Avengers" and "I, Alex Cross," will provide the setting for "Unamerican," which is due the largest tax break: $1.7 million. The movie is about a man's discovery of "the true meaning of life" upon losing his job due to corporate downsizing. Apparently, Cleveland and other parts of northern Ohio will substitute for Ireland when Shaker Heights native Fred Willard stars in the romantic comedy, "The Yank." The story of a middle-aged Irishman's search for love in the old country received a $330,831 tax credit. http://www.cleveland.com/movies/index.ssf/2011/09/northeast_ohio_gets_two_more_m.html

Totally agree :) And by the way, with this new store on East 4th, that leaves what, like 2 vacant storefronts in the East 4th/Euclid area? I know its almost completely full

I agree. I want Times Square type energy in downtown Cleveland. I've long thought that our biggest competitive advantage is being able to offer a NYC lifestyle at a ridiculously low cost of living. So I love this. Its right down the street from Playhouse Square, our "Broadway", so the LCD screen and some extra lights could really increase the synergy between the Casino and Playhouse and set the tone for the entire district, really. The casino is projected to draw 100,000 people a week. I definitely think that new development will spill over to the May Co. Building and I don't think the Stanley Block building will remain vacant for long either.

WOW!! CLEVELAND, Ohio -- A T-shirt business born in Cleveland will open a brick-and-mortar shop downtown, adding to a fledgling retail resurgence on East Fourth Street. CLE Clothing Inc. has signed a lease on an 1,800-square-foot space at East Fourth and Euclid Avenue, connected to the new Positively Cleveland visitors center. The store, tentatively set to open in late October, will hawk Cleveland-centric merchandise ranging from shirts to hats to artwork. http://www.cleveland.com/business/index.ssf/2011/09/cle_clothing_a_t-shirt_busines.html

This is great news. These kinds of projects help us be competitive with the suburbs. (I'd rather have everyone work together, but since that is unlikely to happen in this Balkanized county, then we have to compete). We need more of these. The demand is there.

You scream, I scream... Mitchell's Ice Cream to buy former nightclub spot, move headquarters and kitchen into Cleveland CLEVELAND, Ohio -- A homegrown ice cream company plans to move its headquarters to Cleveland, transforming a former nightclub building into a commercial kitchen and shop. Mitchell's Ice Cream inked a purchase agreement Tuesday to buy the former Moda building in Ohio City. With an expanding lineup of shops and sales to restaurants and grocery stores, the company has outgrown its kitchen in Rocky River. http://www.cleveland.com/business/index.ssf/2011/08/mitchells_ice_cream_to_buy_for.html Great news! This is fantastic for the community

Haha. I wouldn't count on the county moving their housing project any time soon. They don't necessarily have to "move" it though. I think the community should put pressure on CMHA to turn their housing project into a mixed income development similar to what they did in Tremont. Turning former housing projects into mixed income developments has worked tremendously in cities like Atlanta, and the few mixed income developments that we do have seem to work pretty well. So OC residents should ask (then demand if they don't do it, lol) that they turn that project into something that is a better fit for the community while still serving the needs of lower income residents. Housing projects as currently designed need to go the way of the dinosaur. It doesn't work that way. CMHA can't just change the income requirements for residents, and the HUD program that converted projects to mixed income doesn't exist anymore. This is mostly a federal issue. I assume you're referring to the Hope VI program through HUD. I thought that program was still around. And as I said earlier, the Atlanta Housing Authority has made it a stated policy of tearing down housing projects and replacing them with mixed income communities. They're still doing it today. So if they can keep doing it, then there has to still be a way to get it done.

Haha. I wouldn't count on the county moving their housing project any time soon. They don't necessarily have to "move" it though. I think the community should put pressure on CMHA to turn their housing project into a mixed income development similar to what they did in Tremont. Turning former housing projects into mixed income developments has worked tremendously in cities like Atlanta, and the few mixed income developments that we do have seem to work pretty well. So OC residents should ask (then demand if they don't do it, lol) that they turn that project into something that is a better fit for the community while still serving the needs of lower income residents. Housing projects as currently designed need to go the way of the dinosaur.

I just came across this and I don't know if this has been talked about before or not but I was curious about this project. Apparently, the Circle Vistas Apartment building on Euclid Ave close to the Uptown development has been bought by CWRU and Circle Vista is going to build a new, much more aesthetically pleasing apartment complex in another nearby location for the handicapped residents that live in the current building. Does anyone have any updates about when the construction of the new building begins or about what CWRU's going to do with the old one? http://login.npwebsiteservices.com/mil/NewCircle.asp

Oh ok. I was just curious. I think it'll be a great thing if we get a Burlington down there. Although personally, I'd rather have a Kohl's or especially a Macy's, just because I think that if a Macy's opened in the city of Cleveland it would send a clear statement that retail has returned to the city. But I guess that signal can be sent with any department store opening in the city, especially since the city hasn't had a department store in the city limits since Dillard's left in 2002.

Are we certain that we're getting a BCF?

Oh where to start? lol. First of all, this isn't a topic about whether you like Hip-Hop music or not. That's irrelevant. Second of all, I doubt you'd make the same argument about comparable rock artists, particularly 70s-80s drug induced Rock music. The only difference between the rappers of today and the rockers of yesterday is that rappers curse (and nowadays Rockers do). But there's only criticisms of Rap. Why is that? (That's another topic for another day). There is not one other industry in the modern history of the United States (and possibly ever) that has created more wealth among minorities than the Hip-Hop Industry. But yet that industry is still a pariah in at least your mind. People have more respect for the Porn Industry than the Hip-Hop business. I wonder why. (Again, another topic for another day). Second, ask Atlanta what Hip-Hop has done to help their city. "Today, the city has more than 300 recording facilities and is the driving force in a commercial music industry that has a statewide annual economic impact of nearly $1 billion, according to a Georgia State University study". http://www.usatoday.com/money/media/2005-12-01-mauldin-profile_x.htm Third, as a result of the economic impact of Hip-Hop on Atlanta, its stupid to alienate that or not attempt to go for a piece of that pie, especially when its likely that a majority of the under 30 population of the city of Cleveland and, yes, the suburbs, listen to some form of Hip-Hop music. Fourth, if anyone thinks that MGK was going to have a bunch of people rob stores at that mall, you're high. It was a publicity stunt to show how much support he has and how big of a crowd he can gather. He didn't get arrested for organizing a flash mob. He got arrested for refusing to climb off of a table. So to try to make this as some "violence inducing" event is ridiculous and pales in comparison to classy rock influenced events of the past such as "ten cent beer night" or "Disco demolition night". And finally, since this has turned into a Rap bashing conversation, I'll leave you with a quote from a Rapper, Jay-Z. "Scarface the movie did more than Scarface the rapper to me. Still that aint to blame for all the s--- that happened to me. Are you saying what I'm spitting is worse than these celebutantes showing their kitten? Are you kidding? Let's stop the bulls---tin. Until we all without sin, let's quit the pulpitting."

Ok, I'll ask again, what else would you put there? Apartments are not going to go there unless, as I've said before, there's a market for an apartment next door to the Free Clinic and featuring views of Lake View Cemetery and a gas station. Imo, thinking that something like that could go on this site is unrealistic. It aint gonna happen. So now what? Do we leave a dirty, dingy, vacant building on "main street"? You act like that wouldn't be the end result, but until this magical, wonderful, pedestrian friendly mixed use proposal came it would be the case, now wouldn't it? Are you willing to wait a decade or two or however long it could take to get the exact product you want on this property? In my opinion, that's insane. Generally speaking, I'm against turning down plans without having an alternative. It takes no effort or energy to be against something. What are you for? What could you possibly put there that would work? And why is it ok to have a free clinic and a cemetery on Euclid but not this power plant that's right next door to it? Let's be real.

Yes, yes, and yes. But within reason. I'm pragmatic. And on landmark status, I don't believe in assigning landmark status to buildings just because they're old. I believe in assigning landmark status to buildings that have historical significance (as I've said repeatedly). As I've said over and over again, if there's a better alternative, then go with the alternative. But I don't support leaving a vacant building vacant and hoping, wishing and praying that the right plan comes around some day because, in most cases, it never does, and down the road we either still end up with a vacant building or someone with money comes around later and proposes something worse than this plan.