MissinOhio

3) Cleveland city boundaries 2030 census -- my ideal city limits This map I agree with completely. Your ideal boundaries sound like mine. Sticking with the whole NE Ohio theme here, I was down in Florida this past summer just thinking about the South and their annexation policies. As a Mahoning Valley resident the idea of absorbing some areas into Youngstown city limits started brewing. I am not a fan of annexation of farmland or large swaths of land because I think it's cheating your way to growth, but when you're annexing areas with a somewhat cohesive relationship it makes sense: ex. Cleveland/Lakewood/Cleveland Heights. In my old stomping grounds of Daytona Beach Shores back in August I quickly started putting numbers together. Daytona Beach is roughly 64 square miles with a population of 61,000. Youngstown is about 34 square miles with a population of 65,000. If you know Youngstown, there are plenty of inner-ring suburbs/townships with a Youngstown zip code. If you added census-designated Boardman (35,376 residents/15.3 square miles) and Austintown (29,677 residents/11.7 square miles) to Youngstown city limits you get over 130,000 residents in 61 square miles. Smaller in area than Daytona Beach and a denser city. Plus, this annexed land is already heavily developed and not really taking on a lot of undeveloped parcels of farmland like you see down South (Jacksonville practically takes up all of Duval County with 875 square miles). I would be curious, because most of Cuyahoga County is already developed, what would population and land numbers be if you took on dense inner-ring suburbs? Cleveland would still be smaller (land area wise) than southern cities and Columbus, but still dense, walkable, and connected by transit.

What is going on in Cleveland? It's becoming like St. Louis; you read about some asinine crime every other day now. I had friends from Youngstown who went up during the tournament and they said downtown didn't seem to market itself well to out-of-towners. You have all these people visiting you would think the city would actually try to impress them. Wonder how the RNC will turn out if this is how Cleveland goes about an NCAA tournament round. How many murders is the city currently at? You read about one almost everyday, but the Plain Dealer never lists the stats of where the city stands on murder count.

Speaking of St. Louis. I stayed at St. Louis' hostel last year and have to give credit to Cleveland's in Ohio City for its location next to a Red Line station. I have never stayed at Cleveland's, but I have heard better reviews about it versus St. Louis. I enjoyed the St. Louis hostel, but to get around on Metrolink I had to get all the way to downtown before I could even get on a train. Not to mention St. Louis' hostel is not near a university, either.

This section of downtown is booming. Great job, Columbus!

I like Chicago better as a city versus Philly, but I think of what Philadelphia has around it compared to Gary, Indiana for Chicago. Milwaukee is close, but it's not New York, DC, or even Baltimore.

We will see how it could "have new life soon" when a NJ lender outbids the local developers for the building.

You mean like Beachwood Place? :wink:

It gave me chills! I use to live in Oceans Grand in Daytona Beach Shores for about a year. I lived on 19th floor and had a great view of the ocean. I could easily walk to the beach, but I just remember back to the horrible accidents that would happen on A1A every so often from car accidents to pedestrian fatalities. Walk across A1A to the beach you were really risking a good time for the sake of how truly un-walkable most of Florida is. Not to mention one night I was awoken to a car literally exploding going around a slight curve on A1A and slamming into a light pole right before the Top of Daytona which you got in one of your photographs. I honestly can't stand Daytona Beach and most of Volusia County as it is too white trashy for me. There is very little there (none in my opinion) in terms of quality urban development and quality architecture. This was the place that made me truly realize how much I miss the cities of the North. DeLand is nice (Stetson has a nice campus) and Flagler Avenue in New Smyrna is unique. I have had lots of good times and drinks at The Breakers Beach right at the end of the strip on the beach. Nice photos, though! The seasons are starting to change, and Spring will bring with it lots of color and good smells. The change of seasons is so much better in NE Ohio versus North Florida.

You don't seem to know Cleveland very well. I don't think that Pittsburgh is far more advanced in its development versus Cleveland, maybe so with Cincinnati where the majority of the development in that city is centered around the CBD and OTR. You call Pittsburgh a "peer" city, but to me its seems like you think it is astronomically better than Cleveland or Cincinnati, but that's just my perspective. Pittsburgh really began to ramp up urban development in the late 90s and early 2000s, and Cleveland is quickly gaining its stride. I know downtown Cleveland has received a lot of attention nationally for its development in downtown and University Circle, but you're seeing many westside neighborhoods boom right now not only with typical restaurants and entertainment venues, but residential construction. The development in Ohio City, Tremont, and Detroit-Shoreway are feeding off of eachother and spreading. East 4th has a dense cluster of restaurants/clubs, but that is not the only vibrant area downtown. Take the two theatre districts, I think the vitality and overall feel is better in Playhouse Square versus the Cultural District. In downtown Cleveland you also have the Gateway District and the Warehouse District with more options available in downtown Cleveland. From what I have seen, Cleveland seems to have more people out on the streets after office hours in more areas downtown than Pittsburgh. Have you been to many of the neighborhoods just south of Southside Flats or Mount Washington? Many of them have little to be desired, and do not stand out architecturally or have vibrant business districts. I have family in Munhall, Homestead is really just the Waterfront and nothing else. It has a high vacancy rate in its little business district. It is in better shape than neighboring Braddock. Oakland really has helped spur development in Shadyside and Bloomfield because Squirrel Hill was already an established residential neighborhood. And just like Oakland, UC is spreading its development into surrounding neighborhoods (Midtown along the Healthline and projects like Upper Chester), so again, development is not just centered in downtown core neighborhoods. East Liberty is really picking up steam, but a lot is still needed to be done there. I see it a lot like the Waterloo District or Detroit-Shoreway in Cleveland where development is pushing in and creating positive impacts. But again, most surrounding eastern neighborhoods around East Liberty suffer from blight and population decline like Waterloo/Collinwood. I think with the development happening in more neighborhoods throughout the city and that development spreading around, you will see much more positives stories outside of westside neighborhoods, downtown, and University Circle. Cleveland benefits having more diverse rail options than Pittsburgh, and I think this is something that is really going to hurt Cincinnati going into the future, unfortunately. But because of the time Pittsburgh really began to heavily invest in urban development, I don't think it is far and above Cleveland.

You say this in basically every post about Pittsburgh, and I don't think there is really any validity to it, no matter how many times you say it. Like Cincy and Cleve (and almost every other city, for that matter) downtown PGH has pockets of activity and pockets of dead zones scattered throughout the CBD. I'd estimate they have about the same amount of bars and restaurants downtown, and probably have more cultural institutions and almost certainly have a higher day time population in terms of office workers than any of the C's downtowns. They also have rail connections to other nearby hubs of activity such as Station Square and the stadiums and Warhol Museum. Having grown up visiting Pittsburgh multiple times a year, its renaissance is nothing short of incredible. Shadyside and Squirrel Hill are both phenomenal neighborhoods, and East Liberty is seeing the kind of investment that a neighborhood like Walnut Hills in Cincinnati (very comparable imo) could only dream of at the moment. I had no idea that they're getting an Ace Hotel, but that in itself is a huge deal. Urban Targets, TOD (surrounding a grade-separated BUS line nonetheless), Whole Foods, boutique hotels, etc. all moving into a neighborhood that isn't Downtown, Shadyside, Squirrel Hill, Southside or Oakland is pretty amazing, IMO. Pittsburgh is doing the damn thing right now, and each of the Ohio cities could and should learn from its success. I have distinct memories of PGH from the 90s and early 2000s, and much of the city used to be really bleak. Run down housing, abandoned steel mills, large vacant fields from mills that had been torn down, dive bars with bricked up windows, etc. There are still plenty of these type of areas around, but the transformation of the city in multiple neighborhoods around town (not just core neighborhoods like CBD/OTR) has been pretty awe inspiring. Keep up the good work Pittsburgh! (oh, and F*** the Steelers). I live 45 mins from downtown Pittsburgh, and both sides of my family come from, and for the most part, still live in the city and surrounding suburbs. Most of these areas that you speak of are very close to downtown, and have experienced growth well before it started shifting to downtown. The East End has seen the most dramatic changes in my opinion (Oakland, Squirrel Hill, Bloomfield, and Shadyside). All these areas of growth have been pocketed for a while, but that growth is now shifting back to the CBD as connecting it all together. There is still a ways to go, though. Between downtown and Oakland you still have a massive eyesore that is the Hill District. We are talking plenty of abandonment and open lots. A lot of Pittsburgh's problem areas are hidden by the topography of the city. Remember, Pittsburgh lost over half of its population so there are lots of areas in the city that face immense challenges. These "islands" are quite apparent. The Southside Flats are a dense walkable neighborhood, but head up the hills or go to the east and you head into some not-so-attractive neighborhoods, and there is heavy poverty concentrated for miles and miles along the Monongahela. Heading west on Carson you have the south shore which is still mostly surface lots. The Strip District again is a dense neighborhood, but has several surface lots and an undeveloped riverfront. The North Shore has been a hotspot in recent years, but I have not been too impressed with the developments over there (architecturally) outside of around the Warhol Museum area, and again, surface parking dominates. Though, the T extension is a very nice touch they have added. Downtown Pittsburgh has to be dense because of the rivers, and the Triangle area is the hub of activity in all of Western PA. But there is still a lot of missing teeth to fill in. East Liberty is the new hot spot neighborhood in the east, but a lot of its commercial district has higher vacancy rates and looks like it belongs out in Cranberry or Robinson (new developments). I find downtown Cleveland to be more active and have more hubs of activity after work hours. Not to mention rail transportation in Cleveland is more diverse and goes in more directions than just the southern suburbs that the T offers. You can head to Shaker Square, Little Italy, University Circle to the east or you can head all the way out to the airport in the west. Pittsburgh you have to fight the traffic on the poorly designed parkway west from the airport into the city. I enjoy Playhouse Square far more than the Cultural District. So in terms of cultural institutions, downtown Cleveland wins out. Pittsburgh essentially was the Detroit of the 70s and 80s. It had to do something to turn its fortunes around. It was so solely dominated by one industry and lost so much that it hit rock bottom quick. In large part, I think its topography helped limit what you see in Detroit today, and neighborhoods like Oakland sparked that growth with its universities and cultural amenities. I do not know much about Cincinnati, but I fail to see how Cleveland can emulate Pittsburgh. It didn't fall like Pittsburgh did in the 70s, and it is a completely different city in terms of its layout and what made it tick. It's just a different city doing its own thing towards its rebirth, so it needs only to build off of its successes. Not only is downtown experiencing growth, but so are surrounding neighborhoods like Tremont, Ohio City, Detroit-Shoreway and out to the east University Circle/Little Italy, Buckeye-Shaker, and Collinwood/Waterloo area. Pittsburgh has received a lot of attention in the last decade because it realized it needed to do something quickly when the steel industry collapsed. I think it is time for Cleveland (Cincinnati too?) to showcase their comebacks, and they are starting to get that attention. I mean look at OTR, that has to be one of the most successful comeback stories of a neighborhood in the entire country over the last decade. Eridony, the quality of your pictures are terrific. I look forward to your photo threads because I know they will not disappoint. Thanks for posting!

How many murders has Cleveland had so far in 2015? Starting to sound like St. Louis.

So what you're telling me is all the good Italian and Greek food I am so use to here in Youngstown will be hard to find in North Dakota? :-)

What was going on in Nebraska?

So I take it construction has been pushed back to the 23rd? Wasn't there a February 1st start date? I understand there are obstacles that get in the way, and I completely agree with a poster either in this thread or another that made mention that these projects are starting because of the momentum in the city and not just because of the RNC, but I am beginning to wonder how some of these projects will end up panning out by the time the international spotlight is on the city.

And if you did the same for Columbus... You get the same 2MM in their metro... Don't say that, Columbus is the shinning star of Ohio, somehow you have to spin those population numbers into a positive. Either way, it would be nice to see a store in Cleveland because the market is there, but I highly doubt Cleveland/NE Ohio will be getting one now or at least for a very long time. Not sure if you're being facetious with the "shining star of Ohio" moniker for Columbus or not. Facetious I was. Central Ohio market compared to NEO are two different leagues. The Brooklyn deal I think is really just speculation, and really, you haven't heard anything from IKEA since. I think it will be a long time before IKEA comes to Cleveland. I look at it as one store, nothing major. The NEO market makes the most sense, but it is what it is. The difference between Kansas/Missouri and NEO is the density of not only the population but the range of IKEA stores in relation to one another. The KC market takes care of portions of Iowa, Kansas, Oklahoma, and Missouri. Same goes with STL and its market to the surrounding region. And then I could be wrong and IKEA will announce soon a store in Metro Cleveland. They are on expansion mode in North America.

And if you did the same for Columbus... You get the same 2MM in their metro... Don't say that, Columbus is the shinning star of Ohio, somehow you have to spin those population numbers into a positive. Either way, it would be nice to see a store in Cleveland because the market is there, but I highly doubt Cleveland/NE Ohio will be getting one now or at least for a very long time.

I saw that. Regardless the circumstances, Cleveland will get dumped on. Did you also notice the old shots of the skyline they were using? Terminal Tower was still blacked out from its top reconstruction years ago. It would be nice if people would at least educate themselves on Cleveland before they start making comments. No city gets dumped on more than Cleveland for what it truly offers and brings to the table. Sorry, rant over, moving on.

Watching the game on TNT the announcers were mentioning in an interview with J.R. Smith how he thinks there is nothing to do in Cleveland. Another national televised game and more Cleveland jokes.

It's like Cleveland's version of The Banks. Not a fan.

i cant say i agree with that. Its the 4th tallest building in the city, it will have impact from all angles. Maybe not so much from northward if you're out on the lake or taking in views from Voinovich Park, but definitely from Edgewater, I-77 northbound, and eastside locations (Garfield Monument especially). I wonder what it would look like from the Shoreway westbound...

Makes me wonder what is going on with the old Cleveland School District headquarters. It's already a given that hotels around the convention center area will be booked and a major priority.

An article with Cleveland in the title, but no shots of Cleveland's spectacular neighborhoods? Why was Cincinnati not in the title? Pittsburgh? Buffalo? Because that's all I saw.

Edit: I meant to quote your Detroit links :oops: This made me think of a piece I read last month during a layover in Detroit. I was reading The Metropolitan's (Detroit) December issue when I came across a story about a New Englander who had lived in Manhattan trying to find "his New York", but finding it in Detroit. It was a good read IMO. All I could think about was how underrated these places (especially Cleveland) are, and that the grass really isn't always greener. Starts out at page 4 and continues on 11 (you can bring font to actual size): "Found Manhattan in Detroit" http://www.themetdet.com/dec14/dec14.html

Holy sh##! That is impressive.

Right. At least Cleveland and Louisville are building brand new convention center hotels (is Louisville's going to be next to the Yum?) Cincinnati can't even get the owners to update their embarrassment of a hotel.