MissinOhio

There's reality, and then there's your opinion. I swear, you nitpick more with Columbus than people on City-Data complain about streetcars.

I am not making a big deal of him investing in Detroit. I think it is great, it's his hometown. That in itself is a great story, especially considering Detroit's problems at current. I don't know, but I was in Little Italy this past Saturday, and I didn't hear a lot of good reviews on the casino. That is what I want to know. How well is it interacting with its surroundings? I was on East 4th back in October on a Friday and didn't notice any difference in street activity from my time at CSU. That is a serious question: Is it making a big difference in activity in the area? I am not angry. I am disappointed. Cleveland shouldn't have to settle just because there is new development coming along. I feel there was so much hype about this casino, and it just isn't paying off like it was advertised. It was this new "savior" for downtown, instead of just another piece to the puzzle. In Cincinnati they are praising the streetcar, OTR, Washington Park, Fountain Square, The Banks, etc. Cleveland... a new convention center and the casino. In the general picture, I just think Cleveland settles too much. That's just my opinion, though.

The article posted above was written before phase one of the CLE casino even opened! I'm disappointed the historic block was demolished, but is that really Gilbert and his company's fault, considering how long those building deteriorated, or is he just the convenient scapegoat? Why not be upset with those that let the buildings rot and with CLE/Cuyahoga County for not enforcing redevelopment of those buildings? Spin off development? What spin off development was mention or listed? Has the Casino being opened help pump money and non monetary spending? Anyone who is upset about Cleveland and prefers Wheeling or Pittsburgh isn't the target audience for Cleveland. Have you been to our casino? Exactly! It was written before the first casino even opened, and yet here we sit 8 months into this "temporary" casino being opened and haven't heard a word about the second phase. I don't care if you drop the casino plan and stick with the Higbee, at least let us know you still have plans with the property. I am just as upset with the former owners of the building, but there was no effort at all to save it from Rock Ventures. Tear it down and add nothing. So much for adding vitality to downtown. He's no scapegoat, but the whole reason this thread was created was because the guy praises that he is helping Cleveland just as much as Detroit. That's just not the case, and now Cleveland is seen as some dead rust belt city just like Detroit every time this guy opens his mouth. Sorry, I'm not buying into this guys' hype that he is trying to do Cleveland good. Spin-off development in more restaurants and retail... Is the Mayfield building (name?) on Prospect still completely empty on that side? How about those buildings next to the new garage by Harry Buffalo's. Those still empty or home to shoe shops? Guess the casino is living up to what casinos do... keep people inside, get in their cars, and go back to Westlake. Am I not remembering correctly, but wasn't this casino suppose to bring some sort of life to this section of downtown that didn't exist before? Cleveland should fight for as many dollars as they can. Youngstown is a metro area of over 500,000, and like always, people are preferring Pittsburgh to Cleveland here in almost every category. I grew up trying to defend Cleveland in a predominately Pittsburgh supporting area. There was so much hype down here for the Horseshoe, and many are disappointed with it. I would hope Cleveland would fight for as much of an "audience" as possible. I do not go to casinos. I work too hard to blow my money away at casinos. But I have been outside the new casino, and Pittsburgh's as well. At least Pittsburgh's is connected to the trails and parks along the North Shore....

If this needs to be somewhere else, please move it... Since our amazing governor fails to see the benefits of investing in other forms of transportation, I expected our roads to at least get some MUCH needed attention and work. I-71 is one of the worst freeways I have driven on in a major city surface wise. 75 is just as bad. Plans on resurfacing either one of these? I don't see the bridge project happening anytime soon.

As someone who lives in Poland right on the Ohio/Pennsylvania border and use both Turnpikes on a weekly basis, I hate this plan. I just traveled to DC for work twice within the past week and Pennsylvania's Turnpike is a dream compared to the Turnpike in the Youngstown area. If Columbus needs money for road projects, toll 70. If Dayton needs money for road projects, toll 70 and 75. And if Cincinnati needs money for road projects, toll 75. No way should anywhere in central or southern Ohio get money from the Turnpike. Split the damn state up, cause we all know Columbus doesn't give two sh*** about the state north of Delaware. The 10% you want to give to the rest of the state can go to updating the Turnpike in the Youngstown area. It is a complete embarrassment leaving PA and entering Ohio on that thing. It is old, the road surface is horrible, and modernization ha! Ohio's Turnpike is stuck in the 90s with EZpass while PA has got its stuff together.

With that said, I live closer to Pittsburgh than Cleveland and I have heard people much prefer Pittsburgh's casino to Cleveland's, and avid gamblers in the Youngstown area haven't spoken highly of the Horseshoe. I know a couple who went to Cleveland's casino once, and now continue heading down to Wheeling.

From what I have heard Cleveland's casino is real lackluster compared to most other casinos in Great Lakes region. Has the casino even started any spin-off development yet.... you know, besides tearing down the Stanley? Do we know what is going to go in there? Or is that just going to sit empty for years. Phase 2 of the casino???? Last news about that was 8 months ago: http://www.cleveland.com/metro/index.ssf/2012/04/dan_gilberts_plans_for_a_casin.html Guess that will be a parking lot for a few more decades. This whole casino thing is becoming more and more of a joke. And now the guy buys a casino in Detroit. How many more buildings are you going to rehab in that sh**hole of Deriot, yet let your joke of a company in Rock Ventures destroy the Gateway District. I am all for saving buildings and history, but it seems like there is the opposite idea of change versus Detroit and Cleveland with this company. I am sorry, but this guy is a fool who is just playing Cleveland, and any investment Clevelanders laud and praise it like it is a godsend. I am too passionate about Cleveland, and I certainly think Cleveland DESERVES so much better.

Answer: Feeder rail systems from Cincinnati/OH, Lexington and Louisville to CVG. That is a pipe-dream if there ever was one. Why should either Lexington, Louisville, or anywhere else be interested in a rail feeder system to CVG? Are you also including Indianapolis and Columbus? Sometimes you rail advocates are just plain rediculous. Troll much? Go moderate SuburbanOhio, troll. Or is it City-Data, either one, you get the drift.

It's not hard, all the numbers are there. From unemployment rates, job growth, diversification in the economy... not to mention financial stability. Ohio a few years ago was almost as bad as Michigan, but Ohio's credit rating is leaps and bounds ahead of Michigan's. There's no Michigan hate. You're completely misinterpreting what I am trying to say. If there is any hate, it's your hate for Ohio that you consistently show. That is exactly what you portray post after post. If Michigan is "changing", then Ohio has changed for the past two decades when it diversified its economy. Michigan is dependent off the auto industry. Read the Detroit Free Press, if they're not talking about MSU or UofM, they are talking about something auto related. No one is denying Ohio of its problems, you just seem to paint Ohio with this horribly negative brush. I lived down South for a couple years, I will take what we have here in Ohio over the South any day. When it comes to surrounding states, there's only one I would consider moving to, and actually plan to some day, and that's Pennsylvania. Kentucky was one of the most backward states I have ever been to, and the poverty level was like walking into some trailer park wasteland. Leaving Ohio and entering Michigan was like night and day with how bad their roads are and infrastructure were. It's not just a Detroit problem, but it exists all over the Detroit metro, Lansing, Flint, and all over the eastern and central parts of the state. I will be one of the last ones to support major expansions on the interstate system when perfectly good transit options exist, but driving on Michigan roads are like driving in Paraguay. When I first went to Michigan, I couldn't even comprehend how bad their roads were, you would turn from one road to the next and it was just as bad as the last. I know good urbanity when it comes to other cities. I wasn't talking about Pittsburgh and Charlotte for the end all be all of good urban dynamics. Although, your praises for Pittsburgh certainly show you don't know the city as well as some of us who are around it weekly. In my opinion, I would take Portland, Denver, or Seattle over anything in overrated California any day. Hell, I would even go back to Florida before I go back to California, and that's saying something. I am not comparing Cleveland or Cincinnati to any local cities. I think Cleveland can fair pretty damn well against other cities around the country. Didn't know we were suppose to do that. Locally, I think the only city that Cleveland competes with is Pittsburgh. It blows Detroit and Indianapolis out of the water in plenty of aspects.... mass transit could be one of them. Viable neighborhoods, hell yes. I will go down that path, bring it on. Let's talk about good urban cities. Oh wait, YOU created this thread about TOLEDO in OHIO going back to MICHIGAN, and want to act like you weren't trying to boost Michigan like you always do? No one said anything bad about Michigan, or gives it the time of day on here, except you. This thread is a good example of that. But don't expect people to just sit back while you spew your opinion as if it is suppose to be reality. Cleveland is much healthier than Detroit. Population declines and poverty? Take a ride through Detroit's urban prairies and then drive through the east side of Cleveland. There are areas of Cleveland that are desolate, but not nearly as bad as Detroit. You can literally look on for blocks in Detroit and see nothing but fields of weeds. At least update yourself on that much. Cleveland doesn't need to recover like Detroit. Detroit is trying to invest in downtown and Midtown while the rest of the city goes to war with itself. Meanwhile, eastern neighborhoods of Cleveland are seeing intense development, and development from other key areas that spill into eastern neighborhoods. League Park and Upper Chester are good examples of this. Plus, it also helps to have one of the world's best medical based economies and institutions like the Cleveland Clinic and Universities Hospitals in University Circle which is probably the best neighborhood in the Midwest outside of Chicago. Defend Michigan, because that state's image is much worse off than Ohio's. You find the perceptions against Michigan to be unfair? I certainly find them to be unfair against Ohio, especially with the attitude you have. But yet, I can think of plenty of states around the country who have horrible image problems, but once again, to you, Ohio is the worst of the worst. Kentucky, West Virginia, every state in the South outside of NC, GA, and FL. The Great Plains.... I just finished watching a special on NBC tonight about Detroit's decline. I just saw that Detroit had almost 400 murders this year. They also mentioned how Flint and Grand Rapids saw their murder rates increase. Flint, percentage wise, saw more murders than Detroit. Meanwhile, Cincinnati saw its murders drop to 53, a 20% decrease from last year. In fact, Flint, a city much smaller than Cincinnati had a higher raw number murder rate! Michigan's economy is in shambles, and their entire hope rides on that of the auto industry. At least Cincinnati can go to bed tonight being home to one of the top 10 cities for fortune 500 based companies and a below average unemployment rate, as well as home to a wide variety of companies. Columbus is a leader in research, one of the lowest unemployment rates of major cities, and several fortune 500 companies. Cleveland is a leader in the medical field, and is home to several banking and insurance companies, and a lower than average unemployment rate. Grand Rapids and Kalamazoo are decent, but they are nothing to write home about. Give them praise and bash anything in Ohio is typical of you, so I am really not expecting anything different. Ann Arbor is a college town. I can find a plethora of awesome college towns around the country. Lincoln, Nebraska isn't half bad.... who would have thought. Once again, no one is denying the sprawl aspect or other problems that we face in this state. But huge swaths of neighborhoods in Detroit are vacant... meanwhile, you can find very viable neighborhoods in Cleveland, Cincinnati, and Columbus. Outside of a few already trendy cities, I think Ohio cities have shown some of the biggest comebacks in urbanity in the country... sans your opinion, of course. :wink: "Michigan doesn't deserve to be attacked!" Ok, but I have no problem calling out the "reality" of what you're trying to say. I have no problem continuing. You want stats, facts, etc? That's fine. I don't throw out my opinion and expect it to be interpreted as fact. I go to Michigan all the time, it is very depressing and needs a lot of help. In Ohio, I have seen changes that were needed from severe decline. I see that a diversifying economy is paying off. In Michigan, they praise a new auto plant bringing in a few hundred jobs. Meanwhile, Cleveland is building a medical mart and expanding its convention center to promote medical technologies. BTW, I guess I did something I wasn't intending to do.... "sell" Cleveland and Youngstown. I wasn't trying to boost Youngstown's strengths, just saying how much better off it is then Flint. Keep "selling" Michigan, it needs it.

Oh no, you're good. I just didn't notice someone had posted that article. That's the exact article that made me want to create this thread. -Dan Gilbert -Praise for Cleveland just like he does Detroit, but where does it show? -Put down to the same level as Detroit by the public -etc I will say, without going into too much detail from the original topic, I think most of Cleveland's bad image comes from its sports teams. Detroit is well portrayed as some downtrodden city with high crime, abandoned buildings, bad economy, etc. Meanwhile, Cleveland gets portrayed as some blue collar hard working town that has horrible luck and even worse sports teams. The most negativity that I see on a national level comes from former Clevelanders who bi*** just to bi***. But with good ole Danny boy, Cleveland is just seen as another Detroit i.e. the article and it kind of resonates in my first post in this thread about that.

I know it's an "urban" thread, but the estimates for state populations have been released. Good for Pennslyvania. http://www.census.gov/popest/data/state/totals/2012/tables/NST-EST2012-02.csv

That Sports Illustrated article was awful. Another "Cleveland is miserable, cloudy, gray, and desperate" article. The author obviously did no research on the city or came to visit. He just repeated all of the cliches from the last 40 years. Sloppy and lazy. I'm going to slightly disagree he stated fact, but it could have been written differently. However, I will state this, "The author obviously did no research on the city or came to visit" is 100% wrong. I'll leave it at that. Do you know the guy who wrote the article? If he had done his homework, I have a feeling it would have been a very different article. In all I feel it was lazy writing, taking the easy potshots. That article was my inspiration for this thread. All the negative connotations that is oh so Cleveland really got me thinking...

No doubt about investing in his hometown. I think what he is doing in Detroit is great. If I ever had his money, I would at least invest something into downtown Youngstown. I have followed Gilbert a lot. The guy is clearly a business man and he didn't make his fortunes by being dumb. But what I am saying is, don't put Cleveland in the same basket as Detroit and make it seem like you're doing Cleveland all this good. You built a casino... good for him. I am not the type of person to gamble away my money, but I do see the casino as a benefit. But as someone who loves the urban environment like most on here, I want to see a different kind of development take shape in this area of Dan Gilbert's that he promises so much change in. He just bought five more buildings in downtown Detroit, but in the last couple years he/his company (Rock Ventures) has torn down two historic buildings in Cleveland. If that happened in Detroit, he would be lighting up a storm and everyone in Detroit would hear about it. Yes, the Stanley Block was in bad shape, but really with the Columbia building? That's done and over with, but there is a huge surface lot right in front of the Q and he couldn't build a garage there? Now we watch the Stanley Block go down (already is gone) and for what? To watch some open pit form to add in benches so casino-goers can enjoy a smoke? Maybe add some trees to that and call it a pocket park. I am sure that would be better than what the casino has planned for it... a bunch of nothing. I have read several articles in the last few days and Rock Ventures does nothing but praise the demolition, but lists no plans for what they're going to do with the space. They wanted that all along, just like with the Columbia building. That's what cities with progressive urban approaches do these days, right? I am not making Gilbert out to be some bad guy. When it comes to urban-minded people, he certainly will get my praises. My biggest issue with him is that he shouldn't be acting like he is Cleveland's hero when all he has done was build a casino and add some jobs downtown. Bizdom is a joint venture in both Detroit and Cleveland, which is fine, but not solely Cleveland. Also, didn't he build a state of the art practice facility for the Cavs out in the burbs? If he owned the Pistons, he would be building them a new arena downtown. I am all for new jobs in the city, but he is all PR at this point. His company saves buildings in Detroit, and destroys them in Cleveland. And as far as Forest City goes, they are pathetic. I can't tell you how many times I get frustrated when I hear they are planning to redevelop Pittsburgh's South Shore and spend billions in other cities. There are plenty of other people at fault, too. Just like the owners of the Stanley block, it isn't the casinos fault they are completely incompetent. But I am talking about Dan Gilbert. This guy plasters "Detroit and Cleveland this" but in all reality, it's just Detroit. Until we start seeing some type of mixed-use development behind Tower City (certainly wishful thinking) or I would even be happy with phase two of the casino which I doubt will ever happen... Dan Gilbert can be proud and say he is actively investing in Detroit, but take pride in the fact that you own the Cavaliers and opened a casino downtown... that's about it. Don't act like Cleveland is now on the same page as Detroit when it comes to his investments. That is what irks me. Sorry if I seem a little out of touch with his great efforts to do Cleveland good, but I fail to see his true passion for Cleveland outside of being a business man. Him being a business man is perfectly fine, but don't paint the same picture for Cleveland as you do with Detroit. I am just tired of Cleveland settling. I feel like Clevelanders just settle and call it a day. People think Gilbert is some type of hero. I was in South Florida the night he made the decision, I watched as Floridians from Miami to Gainesville all of the sudden were LeBron James fans. But Gilbert made himself (and Cleveland) look bad the day he wrote the letter. He instantly put Cleveland to the forefront of sporting and other obvious jokes. Somehow he is classified as some savior to Cleveland and I just don't see it. Call me crazy. Cleveland is no Oklahoma City or Phoenix; Cleveland brings a lot to the table in plenty of different departments. I don't want Cleveland to settle for casinos and parking garages that take the place of viable historic buildings which can be turned into residential in a downtown that is looking left and right to development buildings for residents. I don't want Cleveland to settle for some guy who claims he is doing all this great when the true good guys like Maron don't get the credit they deserve. They're doing a lot more for the city than Gilbert. Like I said, I just created this post to figure out Dan Gilbert better. Be the owner of the Cavs and promote the casino as much as you can, but when you bring a more diverse selection of developments to downtown, then you will have my attention.

Quick question, and I'm sure it has already been mentioned in this thread, but I didn't find anything so.... Is this going to fill in a lot of the surface parking lots over/behind by those now brick rowhouse-like condos along Gay Street? If so, this is great news. I was impressed with those when in the general area, and is a better version (in my opinion) of what has gone in over at RiverSouth. Keep filling in those lots, Columbus.

Wrong side of the tracks in Salem. What!? I have to say, there were a few mean streets in Columbiana as well. :wink: That area isn't too far from Salem's football stadium, right? If I recall there are some really good looking houses along East State Street as well heading east from downtown. Great set of photos! The summer ones make me miss the greenery.

I have a serious question, one that goes without trying to sound like a smarta$$. I am curious what Dan Gilbert has done for Cleveland and downtown Cleveland like he claims? I mean besides the casino, which is obvious, what else has he done for the city? I hate when he lumps Cleveland into the same sentence as Detroit; "he loves Midwest cities and how he helps cities like Detroit and Cleveland". Cleveland has so much more to offer than Detroit, and I feel like as big of a public figure as he is, Cleveland is just downgraded to Detroit's level to many people in the business world. What he has done in Detroit is great! I mean it is above and beyond what I would expect anyone to do for a city, but since he is doing great deeds for Detroit in which is most likely America's most distraught city, it's pretty amazing. He has bought so many vacant downtown buildings, brought over 6,000 people downtown from the suburbs to work, and emphasized living downtown. He put up a casino in Cleveland and acts like he created an entirely new mixed-use entertainment district. Has he bought a highrise downtown that I didn't know about? Besides the casino, is he bringing thousands of professional jobs downtown? You bought the lot behind Tower City, how long is that going to be a lot? If this were Detroit we would already see some type of development happening there. I feel like this guy really has done nothing for Cleveland besides a casino, but puts on a good PR show to make it seem like he is Cleveland's newest investor in its construction boom. Please enlighten me on what this guy has done for Cleveland besides the casino and the promise of an NBA championship....

No. Detroit and SE Michigan affect Lake Erie too as far as pollution goes, especially in the western and more shallow portion of the lake. It is also well known that the Great Lakes are a comprehensive system that works as one. Flowing from the higher elevated lakes in the west to the lower lakes of Erie and Ontario to the east. In fact, this is very evident around the hilly areas of Hamilton and Grimsby, Ontario and Niagara Falls.

I must have missed the fact where people were denying Cleveland or Cincinnati of their problems? No one did so. But obviously they're going to call something out when it is clearly exaggerating an issue, this whole thread is a perfect example of that. Detroit's problems are so much worse than Cleveland's or Cincinnati's. A trip through that city and to the Cleve and Cincinnati would easily explain this. You tried to tie Michigan/Detroit as being some haven to Ohio/Cleveland/Cincinnati or whatever else occupies Ohio's border. The fact of the matter is, Ohio is much healthier than Michigan. I just got back from Pittsburgh on Wednesday hanging out with family in the North shore, Mount Washington, and Robinson. I work in Pittsburgh 3 days a week some weeks. I also saw the same problems in Pittsburgh that I have seen nation wide. Surface parking lots all over the North shore, urban decay, empty storefronts, areas that were obviously economically depressed. You're trying to limit these problems to Ohio, and Ohio only. I have seen areas in North Carolina (Charlotte, Raleigh) in these "booming" areas that were full of empty chain strip plazas, and depressed working-class neighborhoods. Uptown/Downtown Charlotte which was littered with parking lots. If you weren't along College or Tyron streets, you were passing some type of large parking lot. Strange, I thought Charlotte was suppose to be known as this booming city that was investing in all the good things urban, including its rail system. Yes, give Toledo to Michigan, at least they can boost their population above 10 million again. But really, how long would that last? Maybe a little desperate now that it is estimated Georgia has passed them up? http://www.bizjournals.com/bizjournals/on-numbers/scott-thomas/2012/10/georgia-is-soon-to-become-eighth-state.html?page=all Michigan is hurting, bad. It's quite obvious that Ohio is having problems, just like what I saw living elsewhere. These problems are not limited to just one state, no matter how much you want to try and portray that. I can drive through certain areas of Cleveland and say "oh wow, this really looks like Detroit." But the thing is, Cleveland is a lot healthier than Detroit in several areas. Yes, Cleveland has the urban prairie aspect going on in areas like Hough, but Detroit is ravaged by it. Even the Woodward corridor you can see this from downtown to Midtown. It's great to see what is happening in Midtown or downtown Detroit, but just about every city in the country can sit there and say their downtown is doing great and that there are waiting lists to move into the newest most hip place in a new or renovated highrise. So those articles and quotes you posted about Detroit, yeah, I could probably find the same thing about Boise, Idaho. Dan Gilbert has done great things for Detroit, but it still has a long way to go. Cleveland, a much smaller city, has more than twice the population living downtown versus Detroit. Downtown Cleveland is also connected to all areas of the city by rail. Outside of Cleveland's Warehouse District, Cleveland actually has a nicely dense core over by the financial district up through Euclid. Downtown Detroit is bombarded with surface lots all over the CBD, and looming in the distance are downtrodden art deco towers. Cleveland has healthy neighborhoods that you can find on the east side or the west side. In Detroit it is limited to a few areas, or concentrated in one area. I remember being in Detroit just recently. I had never seen so many people hate on the city so much. So the few small percentages of people who actually call downtown Detroit home over the rest of the metro is not saying much. It was almost a point of pride to say you had not been downtown and that you went to Somerset instead... pretty sad. Detroit vs. suburbs is still a real thing, and only getting worse. It is like being in two different regions. Detroit is on the verge of bankruptcy and already has more murders this year than it did last year. As they continue to to cut back departments, police officers post signs warning suburbanites to enter the city at their own risk, and more houses get torn down to make way for a field of weeds.... Detroit's problems certainly are not getting any better. Like I said before, it's great to see what is happening in Midtown and downtown, but these are very small areas of the city that are getting much of the development dollars. In say Cleveland or Cincinnati, it's a lot more spread out. In 2012 alone I have been more excited about the projects happening in Tremont or Ohio city versus downtown. Same goes with with Over The Rhine, which is probably one of the most successful stories of gentrification from the last 10 years. Now, after several years of positive developments, they are moving on to bigger and better things in those neighborhoods; more prolific developments that have even that much more of an impact on the neighborhoods themselves. Yes, Cleveland and Cincinnati, and even Columbus have their problems. I drive to campus every day here in Youngstown and I can see them on South Ave. You're not telling me things I do not already know. But overall, Ohio's cities have more to offer than Michigan's. I know I mentioned just Detroit, but drive through Flint, Lansing, Saginaw, or other mid-sized cities in Michigan and you see this. Even Michigan's only shinning star Grand Rapids has its problems. Ann Arbor is a college town, not really dependent on other aspects of what makes a big, diverse economy. But yet, Columbus is not only proving itself as one of the most healthy cities in the nation, but Cleveland and Cincinnati are packing a punch on the national level as well. Yes, Cleveland has a declining population that needs to be reversed, but it is certainly doing a lot of great things on a city-wide level. Could they do more? Certainly. But overall, what it has had to work with, I think Cleveland has done a pretty damn good job, and I am more excited about Cleveland's future than most. Cincinnati is truly a unique city, not only to Ohio, but the nation. You just don't find Cincinnati's architecture anywhere else in the country. And a lot of the this beautiful architecture is being turned into vibrant city neighborhoods where people want to live. So good, let Michigan have the last laugh, because I see that as a falsity. Ohio's economy is much more diverse, growing much faster than Michigan's, and Ohio's cities have a brighter future. Cleveland realized it needed to diversify its economy a while ago, and it is paying off. Detroit and Michigan were holding its breath to find out what was going to happen with the auto industry. Chicago? Yeah, it's nice in certain areas, but a lot it is no different than Detroit. Last laugh? Nah, maybe to Massachusetts. I will give Boston credit for being an awesome city that does "urban" things right. Certainly nothing in Michigan. That's a good laugh, though.

They had some nice renderings earlier this morning when I read it on my phone. Not so much now, but still great to read! http://www.cleveland.com/entertainment/index.ssf/2012/11/near_west_theatre_will_break_g.html

Detroit is just as guilty of polluting western Lake Erie. You point fingers at one specific location because you seem to have some vendetta against NW Ohio, but you also seem to refuse to look at other guilty culprits just north of the border. I go to Michigan on a monthly basis. Michigan is probably the most depressing place I have been to, outside of a few locations down South. You can literally leave Ohio and enter Michigan and you know it. Michigan has the worst infrastructure, and Detroit and no where else in the state outside of Grand Rapids seems to be investing in it. How can you say Detroit (downtown and a plethora of other city neighborhoods at that) are actually improving? Detroit was is on the verge of bankruptcy. Remember not too long ago the sign "Enter Detroit at your own risk!". Detroit has a high murder rate, an economy that revolves almost entirely around cars, and not only is Detroit going down, but so are many other areas like Flint, Saginaw, Jackson, etc. Even the capital region is depressing. Detroit is known for the "urban prairie" phenomenon, and once vibrant neighborhoods ALL OVER the city are marked by two houses sitting in a field. Michigan is hurting, and I highly doubt Michigan will "have the last laugh" because each month Ohio continues to pull further and further away from Michigan in most categories. I believe in the last jobs report, Michigan lost the most jobs of any state in the nation losing over 16,000 jobs, while Ohio created almost 14,000. You compare Youngstown to Flint. I live in the Youngstown area. Youngstown has quite a bit more to offer than the Flint area. And being in between to large metro areas that have proven turning yourself around takes time, but can pay off, is certainly helping. Youngstown sits right between Cleveland and Pittsburgh, right along I-80 and a straight shot to NYC. I am not the biggest fan of the gas industry, but having the Youngstown Incubator, a university with 15,000 students right next to downtown, several new residential conversions taking place downtown along with restaurants and hotels, Youngstown has far more promise than Flint, and more diversity in what makes it function. From the Youngstown Symphony, Federal Street, the Butler, Millcreek Park which is one of the nation's largest urban park systems, and more. Flint is a mini Detroit still trying to figure out what their next move is. Michigan doesn't even have a city like Columbus, which is proving to be one of the few cities in the nation that was almost recession proof. Cincinnati is one of the most unique cities in the Midwest, along with one of the most beautiful. And Cleveland's economy went from steel and autos, to being a powerful WORLD player in the medical industry. Cleveland and Cincinnati have neighborhoods that function and prosper that Detroit could only dream of, not to mention Cleveland actually has a light and heavy rail system, and Cincinnati is actually implementing a streetcar at this very moment. Take a look at the biggest employers in Cincinnati and Cleveland versus Detroit. They are a range of industries in Cincy and the Cleve versus cars in Detroit. It shows in a myriad of economic indicators, and shows why Detroit is hurting more than any other city in the nation sans Las Vegas. So judging by the amount of Michigan cars that I see all over Ohio from Northeast Ohio to Southwest Ohio, and knowing how many former Michiganders are moving to Ohio, I can attest that Ohio is doing much better. Forget unemployment rates like 6.9% to 9.1%, but look around to the construction happening in the cities. Detroit can pride itself on a new grocery store in Midtown, but that doesn't even compare to what is happening in Cleveland and Cincinnati.

Paused it at 1:08 to see how good the Cleveland skyline looked...

Oh Athens, so many good memories. Court Street is always a good time. Does anyone know (I really can't be more specific because of my inebriated state) the name of a pizza joint on Union going towards Court Street up from the Union Bar? I remember waiting outside in a line that went down the block just to eat some pizza and it was good. Being from Youngstown you have high expectations for pizza, and this place didn't disappoint.

"Enter Cleveland at your own risk!" Taking the slogan from another very violent city, Detroit. What is going on in Cleveland? A city that has the second fastest declining population in the country, a violent murder rate, and it doesn't look to be slowing down. 2 people were murdered this weekend, and it brought me to thinking about this thread. How many murders has Cleveland has this year? http://www.newsnet5.com/dpp/news/local_news/cleveland_metro/violent-weekend-continues-in-cleveland-with-two-men-killed-overnight

That's what I use Twitter for. I don't follow my friends at all on Twitter unless they post things relevant to this. I get news, funny links/tweets, and intellectual things from majority of my followers. I can't trust my Facebook friends to post the same level of content. There is a completely different atmosphere for me on Twitter than on Facebook. Largely I ignore facebook unless I am posting something of substance or reading what others have said directly to me. Unfortunately, I can't get rid of facebook because it is the universal portal for organizing events nowadays (at least for events related to college). I would miss out on a lot if it weren't for Facebook updates. This is exactly how I am. Twitter has really garnered my attention over the last year, especially due to the fact I am not on Facebook like I once was. I certainly need to get back on Facebook because when you have lived in several different areas of the country, and have friends all over the country, keeping in contact with them only seems plausible through Facebook.

That's why I de-activated my account going on 7 months now. I got so tired of reading the same old sh** about people and their personal problems/stress/etc. I am thinking about getting back on Facebook just to catch up with so many old friends from Cleveland, Michigan, and down South. I remember my freshmen year at CSU I was addicted to Facebook; had to get on in class on my phone, get back to my dorm and get on Facebook just to see what was going on. I had to know everything that was going on with so many of my high school friends... now it's like I don't give a sh**. I do miss seeing how some people are doing, and that is the only reason I plan to get back on. I feel I am out of the loop a little... as bad as that sounds.