MissinOhio

If you honestly believe that public, capital investment in the home of an NBA franchise is a bad investment idea then you can't see the forest through the trees. Please, cite one city that has suffered economically as a result of capital improvements to an NBA arena. This ISN'T MedicalMart. Equating all public financing is not an accurate reflection of this. Allowing the emotions of "but this is public money" to cloud what this will do to the local economy isn't an astute decision. Ask yourself, are these things now MORE likely to happen: - NBA All-star game - NuCLEus - Major concert commitments - NCAA Tournament bids - MAC Tournament contract extension - Conventions with required arena access But hey, public dollars have been improperly spent in the past, so to hell with it. Seriously? NuCLEus has nothing to do with a renovated Q. Stark's record on building anything like he says he will is shamefully bad. NuCLEus is not going to happen with a renovated Q or in its current state. Try again. Dan Gilbert needs to do more. I am so surprised how many people stick up for this guy in Cleveland. He has done so very little for the city when it comes to actual development (what we love to talk about on this site). I could careless about phase 2 of the casino, but this guy has done nothing with those parking lots behind Tower City, has done nothing in Tower City as far as investments go since he bought it, and there is a crap dirt lot where he tore a building down for what? He also put a skywalk into the Higbee Building. That stuff doesn't happen with his developments in Detroit. If you read his Twitter, he loves Detroit and Cleveland, but does very little for the city of Cleveland. Go to downtown Detroit and look at downtown Cleveland, huge difference right now. Construction is everywhere in Detroit where it's just in pockets in Cleveland. I was up in town for the Kansas City/Cleveland game Saturday. Most everything was dead outside of the Gateway District, there's so much room for improvement. Meanwhile in Detroit, you have so much interest in building and renovating, it seems like weekly a new major project is happening downtown. The old at least we're not Detroit doesn't have the meaning to it that it once did. I am all for a renovated Q, but Dan Gilbert should not get a break here. Great, he brought in a championship team to Cleveland, but he is also losing that championship team very quickly off of poor decisions he has made recently. His love is in Detroit, it's his hometown and that's great, but Cleveland is just another city in his eyes, and he is not serious when it comes to investing in the 216. Funding half the renovations is one thing, but with his track record in Detroit, this one project that he will actually do in Cleveland deserves more.

Let's go back and read what I said earlier, it's a wait and see game. Nothing has been set in stone. Tell me how JobsOhio has been such a huge success with the incentives they have thrown out? High unemployment rate and going on two years of sluggish job growth. Ohio's economy isn't exactly on the fast track to success. Obama's policies are reaching down to the state level, and we are seeing many states grow and prosper, meanwhile in Ohio, the growth is well below average and I see that as something to be concerned about. Incentives are not really going to grow your economy. You grow your economy by investing in education and attracting educated young prople. Wisconsin has prospered because they historically invested in higher education. Since walker took office Wisconsin has decreased investment in education and pretty much everything else. Those cuts will take time to hurt Wisconsin who's now playing the pay for jobs game. Scott Walker means absolutely nothing to me, he's worse than John Kasich. But Wisconsin is a good example of doing things better than Ohio. A state in a similar region that is building off of its strengths. Foxconn made an announcement today in Milwaukee a city that is doing extremely well right now. My first comment was to show just how far behind Ohio is. The BLS just the other day released its newest figures, and once again, Ohio is not doing too hot. Wisconsin does a pretty good job for a Rust Belt state in attracting young educated people. I knew many people at Cleveland State from Milwaukee that moved back to Milwaukee because they saw a brighter future there, and not having to move to another region of the country to be successful.

Yet you defend Ohio when it's situation isn't any better? Job growth alone tells you otherwise. Let's review. Wisconsin's unemployment rate is almost 2% lower than Ohio's. Who cares though because unemployment rates don't say much. But in the last 10 years, Wisconsin's labor force has grown by about 100,000 while Ohio's is still down by about 200,000. Pretty impressive for Wisconsin considering that they aren't a fast growing state. If you truly have visited Wisconsin, then just about anyone could tell you the state has better infrastructure, is cleaner, and the towns are actually taken care of. Meanwhile, many Ohio towns have been left to fend for themselves and basic amenities are being cut. Paving a road? Cedar Road going from Beachwood to Cleveland Heights is an embarrassment, and the patchwork they are currently doing on many roads won't last past this upcoming winter. Milwaukee has stabilized its population, Cleveland hasn't even come close. You've been to Wisconsin, right? Have you noticed the cranes? Cleveland talks about highrises, Milwaukee has been building them. Were people not talking about Amazon's announcement in Cleveland recently? Foxconn is that many times over. Think of what Honda has done for Ohio and the supplier plants and spin offs. Honda has been great for Ohio. Foxconn's move will likely lead to spin offs and infrastructure upgrades. JobsOhio and John Kasich have not done nothing for this state, and each time job's reports get released, we have to here from George Zeller that Ohio has been behind in job growth for what, 55 straight months now? I am a realist, so I have no problem mentioning Ohio's problems and not trying to sugarcoat things. If you think Wisconsins infrastructure is in good shape. You haven't seen a lot of the state. Furthermore the low unemployment rate further proves there is no need to pay 1 million for one job. Further. I would never defend ohio doing the same. Wisconsin has always valued higher education and their growth has nothing to do with pie on the sky manufacturing plants. I am not saying Wisconsin is Switzerland, but you made the claim they can't pave a road. Compare Wisconsin to Ohio and most people would agree their infrastructure is better than Ohio's. That's pretty obvious if you have been there. For a state that invests absolutely no money in other transportation options, the roads in Ohio should be much better, and actually cleaned up of debris.

Let's go back and read what I said earlier, it's a wait and see game. Nothing has been set in stone. Tell me how JobsOhio has been such a huge success with the incentives they have thrown out? High unemployment rate and going on two years of sluggish job growth. Ohio's economy isn't exactly on the fast track to success. Obama's policies are reaching down to the state level, and we are seeing many states grow and prosper, meanwhile in Ohio, the growth is well below average and I see that as something to be concerned about.

Yet you defend Ohio when it's situation isn't any better? Job growth alone tells you otherwise. Let's review. Wisconsin's unemployment rate is almost 2% lower than Ohio's. Who cares though because unemployment rates don't say much. But in the last 10 years, Wisconsin's labor force has grown by about 100,000 while Ohio's is still down by about 200,000. Pretty impressive for Wisconsin considering that they aren't a fast growing state. If you truly have visited Wisconsin, then just about anyone could tell you the state has better infrastructure, is cleaner, and the towns are actually taken care of. Meanwhile, many Ohio towns have been left to fend for themselves and basic amenities are being cut. Paving a road? Cedar Road going from Beachwood to Cleveland Heights is an embarrassment, and the patchwork they are currently doing on many roads won't last past this upcoming winter. Milwaukee has stabilized its population, Cleveland hasn't even come close. You've been to Wisconsin, right? Have you noticed the cranes? Cleveland talks about highrises, Milwaukee has been building them. Were people not talking about Amazon's announcement in Cleveland recently? Foxconn is that many times over. Think of what Honda has done for Ohio and the supplier plants and spin offs. Honda has been great for Ohio. Foxconn's move will likely lead to spin offs and infrastructure upgrades. JobsOhio and John Kasich have not done nothing for this state, and each time job's reports get released, we have to here from George Zeller that Ohio has been behind in job growth for what, 55 straight months now? I am a realist, so I have no problem mentioning Ohio's problems and not trying to sugarcoat things.

This announcement was literally made today and you're throwing out figures that are somehow set in stone? Projects like this take a long time. If you actually know Wisconsin, then you know that this is only adding to the progress that is being made there.

Right. So when you make a comment like they can't even pave a road, but then there's Ohio...

JobsOhio is a complete joke that hasn't added anything close to this. You need to actually visit Wisconsin and then get back to the discussion.

JobsOhio has given out plenty of worthless incentives too. I'm sure we could go on and on about how horrible the roads are in Cleveland. From my trips to Wisconsin, their roads and general upkeep is far better than Ohio.

I could careless what Wisconsin is paying for those jobs, it will be a wait and see game. This is an investment that Ohio hasn't seen in decades, and probably never will see. I can only imagine the infrastructure buildup that will happen with this. Milwaukee's already building like crazy now, this will only add to it. Not to mention Wisconsin's labor force is at the highest it has ever been. Ohio isn't even close to its peak, still declining. :roll: :wink:

I could careless what Wisconsin is paying for those jobs, it will be a wait and see game. This is an investment that Ohio hasn't seen in decades, and probably never will see. I can only imagine the infrastructure buildup that will happen with this. Milwaukee's already building like crazy now, this will only add to it. Not to mention Wisconsin's labor force is at the highest it has ever been. Ohio isn't even close to its peak, still declining.

So I saw Foxconn is building a plant in Wisconsin spending billions and bringing in close to 13,000 jobs. Meanwhile, in John Kasich's Ohio we have one of the nation's highest unemployment rates, and one of the slowest job growth rates. 2016 was a bad year, but the recent job's report shows 2017 is markedly more slower than 2016. Not good.

Then move. Simple. Again, you complain on this forum like a City Data poster. Your posts constantly talk about how you don't like this or that about Cleveland. Bye, Felicia! People really find this thread insulting? It's so tongue-in-cheek, and literally means nothing, and all the NEO posters here know that. Go create a thread about SW Ohio becoming its own state, I am sure the Cleveland posters could care less.

Looks like Minny outdoes Chicago: http://www.charlotteobserver.com/news/business/banking/article152038502.html

Great set! Toledo has such a great inventory of buildings downtown. I can't wait to see it in the coming years as more residents move in. It's also nice to see the new companies moving in as well.

Don't forget all the big law firms that call the city home.

It's actually in Torrance, CA. Thanks, I had thought the Honda Heritage Center was the HQ but only some of management is located in Marysville. http://www.autonews.com/article/20160125/OEM/301259964/honda-makes-moves-but-will-stay-in-california I really thought that Honda did move their NA headquarters to Ohio as well just a few years ago. That's kind of disappointing. Oh well, I love their product and have only driven TLs and Accords for the fact they're made here in Ohio, and it helps I like the cars they make.

I thought both pedestrian bridges were basically nixed?

No, Cleveland doesn't like chains. Remember?

I figured I would have been the only person to list Maine. I didn't even read what other people put as their top 5. Just read the title and went with it.

Ohio: It's home. Underrated. Lots of diversity. Big cities to small towns. Great park systems. Attractions galore. Exploding in potential. Pennsylvania: Underrated. Two big cities with great small towns in between. Lots of great history and the mountains. Potential is starting to be met. Florida: This is my second home. I know a lot of people don't like it on here, but there is so much to be discovered down there outside of chains and the beaches. North Carolina: It's beautiful with the mountains and the beaches on either ends. Charlotte is really developing into a nice city with more progressive urban development. Maine: East of the Mississippi, I think it's hard to beat this state's beauty. Portland is a really cool little city.

I was thinking about the crane being viewed from Progressive Field; of course depending on where you sit. Will be filling in a nice section of the skyline from the stadium: http://www.ballparksofbaseball.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/prog16951.jpg

There are a certain select few who consistently paint such a negative picture of our regional economy (both population wise and jobs wise), and put other metros on such a high pedestal. I am actually more optimistic now than ever. A LOT of people are retiring in NEO, and the fact of the matter is, they're going to move to Florida. They've had their hearts set on that since they started working. So what's going to happen, or should I say what is already happening is that this creates a lot of job opportunities for the younger generations to back fill those jobs. The negative here is that the growth is more of a replacement of the older workers as opposed to new job creation. I agree that is a bad thing; however, the upside is that these newcomers are going to increasingly settle in the city. Cleveland is basically going to mirror Pitt metro. Good concentration of high skilled jobs in and around the core, redeveloping urban neighborhoods, rapid decline in inner ring post war suburbs, and an overall economically stagnant outer metro (cities like Lorain, Y-town, Painesville, etc.). I hate the rhetoric of Detroit is doing so much better. They are not, and as the economy improves, only so many empty buildings will be rehabbed in their downtown. Eventually people are going to seek the Tremonts and Ohio Cities of Detroit which are virtually non existent. So as their economy begins to diversify like Pitt and CLE, the younger generation who do not relocate into the immediate downtown will have two choices, build new in an urban prairie with no amenities whatsoever or continue to settle in Ann Arbor, Royal Oak, Grosse Point, etc. It's not at all trying to paint a negative image, at least not on my part. I am one of the biggest supporters of NEO/Ohio on these type of forums. I am getting tired of watching Cleveland get passed up nationally and regionally. It's unacceptable, especially for what the region has to offer. It's called being a realist. The utopian view that Cleveland has few problems is not doing the city any justice. So my optimism is not nearly as high, forgive me. When I have to travel and see how other areas are doing, it gets even more frustrating. Cleveland is far behind. The Cleveland boosterism gets old, and this is coming from a big Cleveland booster. Being from Youngstown, I was a huge supporter of Cleveland, and still am to this day. I was a bigger fan of Cleveland than Pittsburgh, and still am to this day. I believe NEO is a far more attractive area to live than Western PA, and it's not nearly as backwards. But Pittsburgh is a far different city than Cleveland, and much healthier city. Go to Youngstown, the majority of the younger population prefers Pittsburgh, especially southern Mahoning and Columbiana Counties. It's going to take Cleveland a lot longer to comeback than Pittsburgh has. Pittsburgh's surrounding areas suffered the brunt of its economic collapse, whereas Cleveland was all in the city. The built environment is different, and so is the economics. Pittsburgh had Duquesne and PITT, Cleveland doesn't have that caliber of an institution to bring in tech companies. Case Western is a wonderful research university, but Pittsburgh has more, and they turned to their universities to turn the economy around. If Cleveland was truly in Pittsburgh's position of, well it's really just the old people retiring and we aren't seeing enough births or in-migration to offset the loses I would think Cleveland was pretty stable, but that's not the case. Cleveland is losing its educated workforce in large numbers. Facts do not lie. Again, economics at play. And if your comments are directed at me as far as Detroit goes, maybe I should come on here more often. There's not a lot of development news in Cleveland, so I do not pay too close attention to what is happening on this forum, but I have made those suggestions about Detroit before. Let's be real, Cleveland only has a small land area of the Tremonts and Ohio Citys, while huge swaths of Cleveland are doing terrible. A little background, I work closely with land banks throughout NEO, and the Ohio land banks have held their annual conference in Cleveland the last two years. In 2015 I went on a Slavic Village tour to check out how new plexiglass was being introduced to make homes look more attractive to rehabbers, and virtually impossible to break into. I sat next to a woman who worked heavily on neighborhood activities in SV. I asked her what she thought about the Opportunity Corridor and the impacts it may have on SV. She could not stop talking about the investment in Downtown and Ohio City and how so much of the rest of the city was forgotten about. Just like Detroit, only a few areas are being invested in. Downtown Detroit today is doing far more than downtown Cleveland, it's not even close. Do I think Detroit is a healthier city than Cleveland? No. Detroit is making huge progress though. And don't count Detroit out. The rebound is spreading much further than downtown into the Midtown area, so people are moving beyond those empty buildings downtown. And Detroit has some beautiful residential areas as well. On the other hand, Metro Detroit is healthier than Metro Cleveland. The two are always paired up next to each other, especially in news days like today when census numbers come out. "God forbid if you're like Detroit or Cleveland." Metro Detroit is growing. Metro Cleveland is not. That speaks volumes in itself. Cleveland is still heavily invested in manufacturing, so I don't see how Cleveland is even close to diversifying its economy like Pittsburgh. Cleveland is more like Detroit than Pittsburgh in economic recovery, minus the fact that Detroit has gained a far larger percentage of its jobs in the last year than Cleveland. It's not about being negative on Cleveland. It's about being tired of watching Cleveland accept the bare minimum and think things are going to move forward. Instead of just focusing on small areas of the city, move out and help areas with potential. It's there, but they're not getting the attention they deserve. Collinwood anyone? Don't tell me how I am suppose to respond about Cleveland. I have loved the city since I was a little kid looking down on Public Square from my aunt's office window in the 55 building. I have supported Cleveland far more than Pittsburgh, a city I grew up closer to. I see Cleveland's potential, and I know great things can happen, but I am so tired of a mediocre attitude from an economic development standpoint. If Cleveland wants its population to grow again, there's a lot more needed than just investing in Downtown, OC, and Tremont. Pittsburgh isn't doing as well as you seem to think it is... https://www.bls.gov/eag/eag.pa_pittsburgh_msa.htm http://pittsburgh.cbslocal.com/2016/09/27/pittsburgh-region-leads-in-job-loss-in-latest-economic-reports/ http://www.post-gazette.com/local/region/2016/03/24/Census-shows-population-decline-in-Pittsburgh-region/stories/201603240067 Wait, that's all you have? I already recognized Pittsburgh is declining in population, but their population dynamics are different than Cleveland's. You're painting Pittsburgh with too broad of a brush. You're pulling out monthly data reports/articles. Look at what Pittsburgh has done in the last 15 years and get back to me. Take a walk through Pittsburgh and notice how much more lively the city is than Cleveland and get back to me. I will be the first to tell you, there is a lot Western PA that is extremely undesirable, but the city of Pittsburgh is not. Look at Cleveland versus Detroit and Pittsburgh in this chart... only one isn't doing well. Detroit and Pittsburgh are seeing rebounds, Cleveland not so much: http://www.newgeography.com/content/005557-detroits-recovery-oh-yeah-its-real-alright

There are a certain select few who consistently paint such a negative picture of our regional economy (both population wise and jobs wise), and put other metros on such a high pedestal. I am actually more optimistic now than ever. A LOT of people are retiring in NEO, and the fact of the matter is, they're going to move to Florida. They've had their hearts set on that since they started working. So what's going to happen, or should I say what is already happening is that this creates a lot of job opportunities for the younger generations to back fill those jobs. The negative here is that the growth is more of a replacement of the older workers as opposed to new job creation. I agree that is a bad thing; however, the upside is that these newcomers are going to increasingly settle in the city. Cleveland is basically going to mirror Pitt metro. Good concentration of high skilled jobs in and around the core, redeveloping urban neighborhoods, rapid decline in inner ring post war suburbs, and an overall economically stagnant outer metro (cities like Lorain, Y-town, Painesville, etc.). I hate the rhetoric of Detroit is doing so much better. They are not, and as the economy improves, only so many empty buildings will be rehabbed in their downtown. Eventually people are going to seek the Tremonts and Ohio Cities of Detroit which are virtually non existent. So as their economy begins to diversify like Pitt and CLE, the younger generation who do not relocate into the immediate downtown will have two choices, build new in an urban prairie with no amenities whatsoever or continue to settle in Ann Arbor, Royal Oak, Grosse Point, etc. It's not at all trying to paint a negative image, at least not on my part. I am one of the biggest supporters of NEO/Ohio on these type of forums. I am getting tired of watching Cleveland get passed up nationally and regionally. It's unacceptable, especially for what the region has to offer. It's called being a realist. The utopian view that Cleveland has few problems is not doing the city any justice. So my optimism is not nearly as high, forgive me. When I have to travel and see how other areas are doing, it gets even more frustrating. Cleveland is far behind. The Cleveland boosterism gets old, and this is coming from a big Cleveland booster. Being from Youngstown, I was a huge supporter of Cleveland, and still am to this day. I was a bigger fan of Cleveland than Pittsburgh, and still am to this day. I believe NEO is a far more attractive area to live than Western PA, and it's not nearly as backwards. But Pittsburgh is a far different city than Cleveland, and much healthier city. Go to Youngstown, the majority of the younger population prefers Pittsburgh, especially southern Mahoning and Columbiana Counties. It's going to take Cleveland a lot longer to comeback than Pittsburgh has. Pittsburgh's surrounding areas suffered the brunt of its economic collapse, whereas Cleveland was all in the city. The built environment is different, and so is the economics. Pittsburgh had Duquesne and PITT, Cleveland doesn't have that caliber of an institution to bring in tech companies. Case Western is a wonderful research university, but Pittsburgh has more, and they turned to their universities to turn the economy around. If Cleveland was truly in Pittsburgh's position of, well it's really just the old people retiring and we aren't seeing enough births or in-migration to offset the loses I would think Cleveland was pretty stable, but that's not the case. Cleveland is losing its educated workforce in large numbers. Facts do not lie. Again, economics at play. And if your comments are directed at me as far as Detroit goes, maybe I should come on here more often. There's not a lot of development news in Cleveland, so I do not pay too close attention to what is happening on this forum, but I have made those suggestions about Detroit before. Let's be real, Cleveland only has a small land area of the Tremonts and Ohio Citys, while huge swaths of Cleveland are doing terrible. A little background, I work closely with land banks throughout NEO, and the Ohio land banks have held their annual conference in Cleveland the last two years. In 2015 I went on a Slavic Village tour to check out how new plexiglass was being introduced to make homes look more attractive to rehabbers, and virtually impossible to break into. I sat next to a woman who worked heavily on neighborhood activities in SV. I asked her what she thought about the Opportunity Corridor and the impacts it may have on SV. She could not stop talking about the investment in Downtown and Ohio City and how so much of the rest of the city was forgotten about. Just like Detroit, only a few areas are being invested in. Downtown Detroit today is doing far more than downtown Cleveland, it's not even close. Do I think Detroit is a healthier city than Cleveland? No. Detroit is making huge progress though. And don't count Detroit out. The rebound is spreading much further than downtown into the Midtown area, so people are moving beyond those empty buildings downtown. And Detroit has some beautiful residential areas as well. On the other hand, Metro Detroit is healthier than Metro Cleveland. The two are always paired up next to each other, especially in news days like today when census numbers come out. "God forbid if you're like Detroit or Cleveland." Metro Detroit is growing. Metro Cleveland is not. That speaks volumes in itself. Cleveland is still heavily invested in manufacturing, so I don't see how Cleveland is even close to diversifying its economy like Pittsburgh. Cleveland is more like Detroit than Pittsburgh in economic recovery, minus the fact that Detroit has gained a far larger percentage of its jobs in the last year than Cleveland. It's not about being negative on Cleveland. It's about being tired of watching Cleveland accept the bare minimum and think things are going to move forward. Instead of just focusing on small areas of the city, move out and help areas with potential. It's there, but they're not getting the attention they deserve. Collinwood anyone? Don't tell me how I am suppose to respond about Cleveland. I have loved the city since I was a little kid looking down on Public Square from my aunt's office window in the 55 building. I have supported Cleveland far more than Pittsburgh, a city I grew up closer to. I see Cleveland's potential, and I know great things can happen, but I am so tired of a mediocre attitude from an economic development standpoint. If Cleveland wants its population to grow again, there's a lot more needed than just investing in Downtown, OC, and Tremont.

And yet NEO had one of the largest moves FOR the GOP in the last election, based at least in part on the idea that Trump would restore manufacturing to prior glory. It doesn't seem like the message is really getting out on how this is a losing proposition. Why bring that up in this thread? Focus on Columbus, bud.