RockyMountainHigh

The next available ASG year is 2015, and coincidentally that is a National League hosting year. So that's the year they're targeting. Another three years and The Banks should be completely full on the GABP side, with hopefully the hotel (a must) and office building operational. And the western portion near PBS should be coming on line also. The Riverfront park will be complete and linked to Sawyer Point. Elsewhere throughout downtown/OTR by 2015: the streetcar line will be established; the Dunnhumby building with its retail/residential will be open; the 21c hotel will be open; the old Maisonette buildings will be revived/occupied; Washington Park will be open; Vine Street development will have reached and possibly surpassed Liberty; Race street in OTR will be under transformation; Music Hall renovation should be complete; Emery Theater renovation should be complete; casino will be operational; Reading Road corridor into downtown will be upgraded; and a couple thousand new residents not living downtown today should be then. It would be nice if, in 2015, there was also a new use for TP Mall, a reoccupied Bartlett Building, a new tower under construction for all to see and a new airline or two at CVG (Frontier? Southwest?) so Delta can't hold ransom the flights that weekend. It would kind of suck if visitors had to fly into Dayton or Indy in order to go to a baseball game in Cincinnati. That All Star Game weekend could be Cincinnati's coming-out party to the rest of the nation and it looks like we have three years to prepare.

I went to the Reds futures game last night at the ballpark. Despite it being an exhibition game with a modestly sized crowd (probably about 12K), some of the new Banks establishments were exposed to a new group of people for the first time. To no one's great surprise, Holy Grail and Moerlein Lager House were quite crowded. There was also a decent crowd inside Johnny Rockets and even a short line after the game at their take-out window. Toby Keith's also attracted its share of the post-game crowd, but it looked much more crowded before the game than after. I also walked by InBetween Tavern after the game and there weren't more than 10 people total inside. I noticed they really expanded their inside space into the adjoining building. The space looks nice and they have Holy Grail-style TVs on the walls, but there wasn't anyone inside watching them. Is InBetween going to be a casualty of The Banks? Back to The Banks - I'm surprised the space between Holy Grail and Crave hasn't been taken yet. That would seem to be one of the best spots there to attract baseball fans before and after games.

They've now moved to Vine St. Why in the world would they wait until Opening Day, a summer full of visitors to The Banks and the WCG to rip up those planters if nothing was imminent? They weren't lush gardens or anything, but they were certainly better than empty pits. It would seem a horribly ill-timed decision to perform regular maintenance on those bridges now. Maybe this is streetcar-related? And while they're at it, the warped sidewalk along Second Street and the empty tree planters could certainly stand to be addressed.

Lance McAllister just conducted that poll on his blog and it wasn't close even close. UC by far got the most votes. And in the most hated poll, UK was first, followed by OSU then U of L then Xavier.

Nor has Crave or Ruth's Chris, from the looks of it. And I won't even ask about Mahogany's. But it looks like the Holy Grail has used their expanded space to offer a permanent outdoor bar. On another note: I noticed the temporary metal barricades that line Third Street during baseball season have been put in place. As if the Second Street sidewalk wasn't ugly enough with its absence of flower planters or street trees, the metal barricades make it even worse. I understand they're there for safety reasons and to prevent jaywalking, but can't we put some permanent fencing there? These things just scream "parade route." What's next, port-o-pottys?

I would be fine with our local NBA/NHL team playing its games in a new arena built in Newport or Covington if the team's name was still Cincinnati. If it's Kentucky or the Northern Kentucky "whatevers," forget it.

I'd argue it's a bad arena and bad location. It is impossible to watch the game unless you're near the floor. That is why they've installed large screen TVs to display the action on the court for the fans to actually be able to follow the game. The only reason the games are packed is that Dayton has no professional sports and sports starved Daytonites lap up the tickets. P.S. I went to UD for my undergrad and almost never made it to the arena due in large part to the location. The NCAA would vehemently disagree with you - as would most college basketball fans. The NCAA isn't in the habit of tossing their prized tournaments (men's and women's) to bad arenas. (See: US Bank Arena) In fact, UD Arena is so good that it is the only arena with its relatively small capacity in a small city that is allowed to regularly host games. It is, by far, the best college basketball venue in the state. It wasn't built to host dual hockey/basketball teams like Value City Arena or US Bank Arena; it wasn't built to host concerts or circuses; it wasn't built primarily for a pro team like Nationwide or Quicken Loans; it wasn't built to host meetings or banquets or weddings like Cintas. It is for college basketball - plain and simple. I already criticized the 1970s pro-suburban thinking that led to its location. And the reason they installed the video boards is because the NCAA requires it of all hosting venues. UD had to have them in order to keep the tournament and they are among the reasons why the arena will host the First Four again next year, in addition to the second and third rounds. Your assertion that they were installed for people in the upper arena to watch the games is completely incorrect. In fact, you can't even see them in full from the top seven or eight rows due to the curvature of the roof. As for Dayton fans going to games because there are no professional sports: Give me a break. It's not like Dayton is situated in the middle of nowhere like Casper, Wyo. Dayton is within an easy hour's drive from the Reds and Bengals - neither of which really overlap the college basketball season anyway. A large portion of Reds and Bengals season tickets belong to Dayton-area residents. Furthermore, Cincinnati has no NBA or NHL which are really the only leagues that impact college basketball, so you can't use that as an excuse for Cincinnati fans' lack of attendance at UC games. To dismiss UD fans and their passion for the Flyers the way you just did is just ridiculous.

UD Arena was foolishly built off campus at I-75 instead of on or directly near campus in order to give suburban fans easy access. It's early 1970s-era opening didn't really consider anything other than suburban commuters. Amazingly, despite its far-flung location across the river from campus and inconvenient location for students, UD still is regularly among the top 25 in college basketball attendance. Great arena (the best college basketball venue I've been in); lousy location.

And out to Riverbend. Pre/post-concert partying in The Banks would sure beat sitting in traffic or dodging drunken drivers on 275.

I agree that a Broadway Commons arena would be terrible. Without even trying, attaching/linking a new 20,000-seat arena to a casino would forever keep the NBA and NHL away. And I doubt UC, X or the NCAA would be thrilled about playing games there either. Broadway Commons is a no go. Perhaps a small arena (6K-7K) for boxing or MMA, but that's about it. I like the Central Parkway elbow suggestion.

Well, since we're all about the music venues (Toby Keith's, Tin Roof), there's this ... http://www.bizjournals.com/mobile/denver/news/2012/03/12/gene-simmons-bringing-rock-themed.html?ana=RSS&s=article_search&utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=twitter&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+bizj_denver+%28Denver+Business+Journal%29 Wonder what the Toby Keith's crowd would think? :evil:

What about a new Cincinnati Gardens? At the same location? Tear down the existing facility and replace it with a state-of-the-art new Gardens. That would keep it in the city and be a boon for Bond Hill and the surrounding area. And there is adjoining land to develop for hotels, restaurants, etc. There's easy access to that location from I75 and the Norwood Lateral. Then you could tear down the awful USBank Arena and build the desired condos or a hotel on that spot. I'd just as soon keep the arena in Cincinnati and out of the northern suburbs and also out of northern Kentucky. We don't need an NBA team to eventually move here and call themselves the Kentucky Colonels (or whatever). We also don't need NCAA regionals with Newport, Ky., written on the floor, etc. Plus, if it's in the burbs or NKY, UC wouldn't be able to use it as a home venue - this defeating one of the primary reasons for building a new arena.

Lester - I've also thought that block bounded by Fourth and Fifth just south of the convention center would make a good location for an arena, specifically since it would serve as a defacto convention center expansion also. It's perfectly located near hotels, The Banks and Fountain Square. But the problem would be the absolute lack of parking in that part of downtown. Can you imagine a sold-out event bringing 20,000 people there? Where would they park? So move further north, around Central Parkway and Elm. There's room for an arena up there (perhaps the only place in the CBD there is room) and there's room for parking. Not to mention: the streetcar will roll right by there and even the subway tunnels could be used to provide more access to remote parking sites. The only problem with that location is it's a little bit of a walk to the hotels, but no further than GABP is. I certainly agree that USBank Arena is obsolete and is costing Cincinnati millions in unrealized revenue from events such as the NCAA tournament, large concerts and potentially even an NBA/NHL tenant. Which is why, should we follow the KC/Louisville route and build a new arena without a pro sports tenant, it should be large enough (20K range) to accommodate those leagues in the future. Unfortunately, this economic climate is the absolute worst possible time to propose such an endeavor. This community wouldn't take kindly to it. Because of that, it'll have to wait awhile. It wouldn't hurt for UC basketball to start generating the kind of excitement and crowds it did during the 90s and force the arena issue a little bit. And before anyone says that UC basketball needs to be on campus, consider the rest of the Big East in which UC plays: Georgetown - plays home games off campus in the Chinatown district of Washington, D.C. (home of the NBA's Wizards and NHL's Capitals) Marquette - plays home games off campus in the downtown Bradley Center (home of the NBA's Bucks) Providence - plays home games off campus in the downtown Dunkin' Donuts Center South Florida - plays home games in downtown Tampa at the St. Pete Times Forum (home of the NHL's Lightning) St. John's - plays home games off campus at Madison Square Garden Seton Hall - plays home games off campus in Prudential Center in downtown Newark (home of the Devils and Nets) Louisville - plays home games off campus in the downtown KFC Yum Center Villanova - plays home games off campus at various locations, including the Palestra and the Wells Fargo Center Depaul also plays off campus, as does soon-to-be new Big East member Memphis.

If that's what the Capital Grille will look like, I'm more than on board with that.

It would be a great rooftop deck with stunning views - at least until a new skyscraper is built one block south at Third and Walnut. :wink2:

Of course it is most of the time. I was talking about the scene before Bengals games, and the scene that takes over after most Reds games. It's standing-room-only packed with lots of :drunk:. Don't get me wrong, that's fine with me. In fact, I'm headed down there now to watch the UC-Georgetown game. Certainly kids are allowed in, but would you want to take them there when that atmosphere takes over? I think most parents would take a pass on that.

What about that awkward astroturf-covered empty space at GABP directly opposite Main Street from the Lager Haus? It looks like it could be a pad for a future building.

A brand new W Hotel would do that very nicely. Anyone know about how high they would look to build a hotel in that space? I assume it would have to be significantly higher than the apartment buildings in order to get maximum use out of the tight confines.

If we're going to add more restaurants, perhaps a more kid-friendly option is in order? Of course, I don't have kids, so I don't care. But I took my nephew to a Bengals game last fall and of The Banks options open at the time, Holy Grail was too packed plus it's not appropriate for a 15-year-old, and Johnny Rockets is "meh" plus it's hardly unique. I don't think Crave, Mahogany's, CM or Wine Loft are going to satisfy that demographic either. Toby Keith's might, but it's too early to tell what vibe that place will take before/after games. Will it turn into a Holy Grail part II? If we want to attract those dollars from families with kids headed to/from Reds games, I think we need an option that they're going to want to stay downtown for as opposed to bolting straight for the burbs. Since we're national chain-happy, what about a Rainforest Cafe? Or even a pizza place like a Larosa's or Dewey's? It's fine that downtown is an adult playground, but it wouldn't hurt to get today's kids excited about a trip into the city. We need to start changing perceptions and that's a good place to start. Their parents may be a lost cause, but today's 15-year-olds (and their dollars) are exactly the people we will want downtown a decade from now.

Kind of Banks related ... I was listening to Lance McAlister and Sportstalk last night on WLW (the only thing on that station besides the Reds I can bear to listen to) and they were discussing efforts to lure the 2014 NCAA second and third rounds of the men's tournament to downtown Cincinnati. Incredibly, but not surprisingly considering that station's listener base, the majority of people were against it. One caller from Lawrenceburg said the tournament wouldn't work here because there is nothing around the arena except In-Between Tavern and Holy Grail. Another caller flat-out said Cincinnati "doesn't deserve anything like that." Never mind the fact that Dayton regularly gets the NCAA tournament (deservedly so) despite the fact that there isn't a single restaurant/bar within walking distance of UD Arena. And every one of the regional cities surrounding Cincinnati gets the tournament, including Dayton, Columbus, Cleveland, Indy, Lexington and Louisville, but we apparently "don't deserve" it. The self-hate in this city is maddening.

Have they even started construction inside on either of those spaces? Orange Leaf looks like it's going to be the next to open. Walking by there last week it looks like it'll be ready within the month.

Has anything ever gone in the old Circuit City location? I can't believe I don't know but I guess I just don't pay much attention there. Seems to me that a Best Buy would work in that area.

Why does everyone always feel the need to stress that Toby Keith's "isn't their crowd" or "is not the place for them." It's almost like some people feel the need to explain why they're going in there. Seems a little snobbish.

While I agree that The Greene doesn't really hurt the Dayton Mall, it is literally five minutes away from parts of Centerville. I'm not sure you can get much closer than that. It's closer to the eastern part of Centerville with far easier access than the Dayton Mall is. Centerville, for its part, unfortunately wants to build its own version of The Greene at Wilmington and Feedwire, on wooded land that contains a historic 18th century home.

Why do you say that? Just because the developers several years ago said it would not be a retail development means nothing once the actual occupants begin to commit. When I see a big-box store such as Kohls being one of the first right smack dab in the middle of it, I feel not only retail, but big-box retail. And this does not forbid well for Dayton Mall. Dayton Mall has survived the Mall at Fairfield Commons, it's survived The Greene, it's survived the Cincinnati Premium Outlets, and it's survived rampant development in every direction surrounding it for years. And it'll survive whatever Austin Pike throws its way. Frankly, besides Kenwood, the Dayton Mall is the best indoor mall in southwest Ohio and has been for many years. Where other once-popular malls have seen their heyday come and go (Tri-County, Forest Fair, Fairfield, etc.), Dayton Mall has been remarkably consistent and able to adapt.