CincyCapell

The article includes a shout-out to our own Kevin LeMaster for debunking any notion of a fire department brownout at the time of a fire-related fatality in Westwood. It's clear that Mark Miller is writing the incendiary posts on Twitter and elsewhere. I wonder which one of them wrote that apology and offer to get out of the way? It certainly wasn't Finney, who is in the process of filing a taxpayer lawsuit to stop or delay the project. It could be COAST Chairman Gloyd, he doesn't seem to be the shit thrower that Finney and Miller are.

Eeyore is concern trolling. Again.

In your last three posts, you have called one member "uneducated" and "uninformed" and told him he doesn't "know jack squat" .... Name-calling is not a hallmark of effective discourse and debate. If you make your arguments in terms of facts, we will listen to you, I promise. No, I said that the member was offering uneducated and uninformed opinions on legal matters, which he was trying to pass off as matters of established facts. And I asked his to stop doing so in a direct manner. Deal.

There is a difference between reading the law and comprehending the law. There are volumes of case law that interpret ORC, and unless you know (or can find, read and understand) that case law you don't know jack squat. And that opinion comes courtesy of an actual attorney; the one who is sitting right next to me and who is a litigation partner at one of the region's largest law firms, and is also my spouse. You are offering up your uninformed and uneducated opinion as fact, which it is not. Quite simply you do not know what you are talking about, so until you actually have an educated and informed opinion to offer regarding the law kindly stick in a sock in it. With all due respect, instead of writing two paragraphs full of invective and harassment, why not actually add something to the discussion by citing some facts and/or relevant case law? Your post does nothing to further the debate. I have no idea if John Schneider knows what he's talking about in this particular instance, but he is recognized as a leader on the Cincinnati Streetcar issue, and as such I'm inclined to believe he's done his homework. His arguments appear solid. All you've done here is tell us your spouse is an attorney, a claim none of us can confirm or refute. Perhaps with facts on display some here would be inclined to believe you in the same way others are inclined to believe John. In other words, keep it highbrow, people. John Schneider is not spewing what he is trying to pass off as informed legal opinions. That's a major difference. So stop playing "highbrow concern troll", people.

So, in other words, you were desperately googling for actual legal opinions to backup your uninformed and uneducated pseudo-legal speculations (which you couldn't find) and instead found more ways to troll with more "but Cincinnati isn't Portland!!" BS.

There is a difference between reading the law and comprehending the law. There are volumes of case law that interpret ORC, and unless you know (or can find, read and understand) that case law you don't know jack squat. And that opinion comes courtesy of an actual attorney; the one who is sitting right next to me and who is a litigation partner at one of the region's largest law firms, and is also my spouse. You are offering up your uninformed and uneducated opinion as fact, which it is not. Quite simply you do not know what you are talking about, so until you actually have an educated and informed opinion to offer regarding the law kindly stick in a sock in it.

Not quite. Use of public streets in Ohio is governed by Ohio state law. Cincinnati can only do what it wants with her streets as long as it is permitted under the Ohio Revised Code. In Ohio, streetcars are considered utilities and have the same legal status as other utilities. It is also explicitly stated that utilities must be treated equally. One utility cannot block another one as long as they are physically compatible. I know that you work for MSD, but please stop throwing out legal opinions as though you were an attorney.

completely predictable. When the City Solicitor refuses to sue Finney will file a Taxpayer Lawsuit himself, as he has done numerous times. He just filed one last week against the metropolitan Housing Authority: http://www.courtclerk.org/case_summary.asp?casenumber=C 1100852 COAST will file suit after suit seeking to stop or delay the project for as long as possible. It's interesting to note that the Enquirer, who stoked the anti-streetcar meme for so many years, has now virtually dropped the issue.

completely predictable. When the City Solicitor refuses to sue Finney will file a Taxpayer Lawsuit himself, as he has done numerous times. He just filed one last week against the metropolitan Housing Authority: http://www.courtclerk.org/case_summary.asp?casenumber=C 1100852 COAST will file suit after suit seeking to stop or delay the project for as long as possible.

Now that Cincinnati's streetcar is a done deal the Enquirer is going to try and stir up controversy by preemptively writing anti-streetcar articles about NKY. I'm surprised that they didn't have Barry Horstman write that article, as he's their go-to streetcar hitman.

Amen Jake. This is not a witch hunt. Telling the truth (as documented by public records) about your opponents is not an ad hominem attack. To give you an idea of the lack of character that the COASTers exhibit, yesterday a 2 year old baby was tragically killed in a fire in Westwood. This is the first in a series of disgusting tweets that Mark Miller has sent since the fire was reported: Mark Miller is using a baby's death in order to try and score political points. Worse yet, his tweets are a lie; the Westwood engine company was NOT browned out that day. In fact, there has not been a hint or suggestion that there was a delayed response time to this fire by anyone other than Mark Miller. The opposition to our streetcar and other transportation and infrastructure programs are fanatics who will stoop to any level necessary to defeat this City's progress. When they lose at the ballot box they will sue. COAST will intimidate their political opponents into silence via the 'justice system' (as they are in the process of doing to CincyPac, which I wrote about earlier. A notable Pulitzer Prize nominated journalist is currently working on an article documenting COAST's harassment of CincyPac and their attempts to silence that organization and it's leaders via the court system). If we try and play nice with these guys and 'take the high road' we will lose. These right wing extremists must be exposed for the conmen, shysters and sociopaths that they are at each and every possible opportunity.

So where does the project stands vis-à-vis the sewers? I've read speculation that the City will simply relocate the manholes and place the track over the existing sewers thanks to the County Commissioners intransigence on working with the City, and they will tell MSD to deal with it.

Since MSD is germane to the streetcar topic, I thought this breaking news might be of interest: County shocks sewer agency, orders cuts http://news.cincinnati.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/AB/20111221/NEWS010801/312210161/ "Hamilton County commissioners today voted to increase sewer rates 8 percent in 2012 - but in a surprise move they ordered the Metropolitan Sewer District to slash 10 percent from its budget."

Finney wrote the ballot language word for word himself. So if the COAST assholes want to blame anyone for the 'confusing ballot language' they should go and talk to their own shyster. Anyway, Mark Miller and friends are desperately looking for any way to spin the election results for themselves.

Ditto. Nice design!

That's why I don't listen to anything on thre AM dial, and avoid talk radio like the plague; my head would have exploded listening to that bullsh!t. I keep the car radio tuned to WMKV or WGUC. It helps keeps me in a better mood.

8th & State is playing the part of concern troll again.

These are not nonsense concerns. These are real issues. There's been a lot of controversy between the City of Cincinnati and Hamilton County over the MSD ever since the MSD was formed in 1968. The streetcar is just adding to a longstanding grudge match. If the City had simply come in with the cash and volunteered to pay for the required sewer work, I don't think there would even be an issue. Instead, the city came in with an attitude that MSD (and Water Works, for that matter) would pay for the required utility work. MSD is trying to protect its ratepayers, and so is water works. BS. The sewers need to be upgraded, and that is MSD's responsibility. The facvt is that Cincinnati offered to pay $3 Million of those costs, but was told in no uncertain terms to drop dead by the County Commissioners. So be it, MSD can now pay all of the costs involved themselves. That all said, it is not fair to blame COAST, WLW, or the Enquirer for all the opposition. Conflict is normal in large construction projects. Sometimes the conflict get resolved and the project gets built, and sometimes it doesn't. If you think I'm making this up, go out and try to get a building permit for something. You might be amazed at how hard it is, and how something that seems so simple or so silly can become such an issue. More BS. The Enquirer & 700 WLW are primarily responsible for fanning the anti-streetcar flames amongst the suburbanites. They do so because controversy is good for their business models, it sells newspapers, yields more hits on their websites and drives their ratings upwards. As for the overhead wires, they don't seem to be an issue in other cities, so I call 'Concern Troll' on your comments regarding them.

anywhere actually a deserted island would be prefrable Yeah, they'd see a thriving and growing urban neighborhood and take it as an affront to their notion of the American dream. Not enough TGI O'Chilibees for their tastes.

A trip to Portland won Si Leis over.

What Gordon said X 1000'd

The Business Courier put X at $6 million for required sewer work. By your formula, the City is trying to steal $3 million from the Hamilton County rate payers. People tend to resist having things stolen from them; hence the conflict. I'm surprised that the source of this conflict is not better understood on this board. The County Commissioners are not intentionally trying to impede the streetcar project; they are just trying to protect their own budget, in the way that anyone would. It's pretty clear that the streetcar does NOT have widespread support outside of the core, and the County Commissioners are protecting their self-interest as politicians as well. Voters weren't given a chance to vote directly on the new sewers in Green Township, but they elected the County Commissioners, namely Bedinghaus, Dowlin, and Guckenberger, who approved the new sewers in Green Township in 1993. Wait, I take that back: Bedinghaus wasn't elected, he was appointed when Steve Chabot moved on to Congress. Thanks for posting. With all due respect, you are wrong. The truth is that the head of the MSD has agreed that the ancient sewers along the streetcar route need to be replaced/upgraded, and that the best and most cost efficient time to do that is when the streets are already torn open for the streetcar construction. Also, the City was offering to pay $3 million towards the costs of those upgrades, but the county Commissioners spit in their faces, for reasons of pure political posturing and pandering to the anti-streetcar crowd. The CC's irresponsible actions were guaranteed to cost MSD and County ratepayers more money down the line. Also, although Cincinnati has not had experience with streetcars for some decades, many other American (as well as international) cities have had that experience, and their expertise is freely available to Cincinnati's technocrats in this electronic information age. As for green township (and elsewhere) sewer projects, no, we in the City - who are in fact Hamilton County residents and taxpayers - have never had a say or input on those projects. Just as we have not had input or veto power over the free HCSD services that the Townships have been receiving fore many years now, police services that those of us in the City subsidize through our property taxes. Kevin Osborn at City Beat has an excellent takedown of Monzel and his fellow commissioner's actions regarding MSD: http://www.citybeat.com/cincinnati/blog-2386-monzels_motion_may_b.html

It took decades to get the Roebling Suspension Bridge built due to opposition from corrupt local conservative groups that were COAST's predecessors: http://cincinnati.com/blogs/ourhistory/2011/01/12/ohioans-resisted-suspension-bridge/

HA! True!! Anyway, as I understand it (and correct me if I'm wrong) is that the sewers don't have to be moved, just the manholes to access them.