CincyCapell

And right on queue: C. Smitherman ‏@voteSmitherman I will be on 700WLW at 12:30PM to explain how City Hall is working to pass on Streetcar cost by way of Duke... http://fb.me/11OkJZVef 12:22 PM - 10 Sep 12 · Details

It would be prudent for streetcar supporters to submit comments to PUCO, because Finney, Capell, Miller & company are undoubtedly flooding them with comments from dozens of fake email addresses. We don't need to give PUCO the excuse of citing 'comments from the public were 100-1 against the City of Cincinnati' when they make their ruling.

It's been two weeks since the Enquirer last published a story on the streetcar, so I guess they felt it was time to throw Barry Horstman and his hair hat a bone. And this is some hard hitting piece of journalism too; Horstman's investigation of records the Enquirer went to court to obtain show that the lowest bidder received the contract. Nobel winning investigative reporting stuff here.

Latest tweet from TOAST: COAST ‏@GOCOAST Tomorrow, 7:30 AM , @GOCOAST er @chris_Finney is on @55KRC w/ @brianthomas1 discussing #cincinnati streetcar. Listen in. 10:08 PM - 9 Sep 12 · Details Frivolous Finney's gonna go and beat a dead horse a little bit more, and Brian Thomas will chat with some more paid fake callers. How much longer does 55KRC & 700WLW think that shows about the streetcar are going to attract a audience?

^Even if the City had to pay the full cost of the 8 foot Duke utility relocation costs, that adds $12-15 million to the project's price. That doesn't add up to anywhere near the $250 million figure that you are irresponsibly bandying about.

I wonder if any of the TOAST members wrote some of the graffiti? It's basically the same thing that they do on Twitter all day.

I came up with that on my own, not from WLW. Well, you certainly do echo the COAST/700WLW fact-free talking points.

Gee, I feel like I am repeating everything. I already did this, but here it is again. the 2007 feasibility study, if I remember correctly, called for $110 million or so for the whole system, including $15 million for utility relocation. MSD wanted some $15 million for sewer work. The city told them to take $3 million and live with it. Water Works wanted something like $20 million. Again, the city pressured them to deal with less. Duke wanted $20 to $30 million, depending on which source you use. I don't think Duke is going to be a pushover, and in the event that a court says that they have to pay to move the Duke utilities, I think Duke is going to do everything they can to raise rates to cover it. So, the feasibility study said $15 million, but Duke, MSD, and Water Works say up to $65 million. That's $50 million more than what the feasibility study said. I took the $110 million and added $50 million. Now we are up to $160 million. I don't really have a reason to get up to $250 million, other than a feeling that the intiail estimate was way too low. It is common for projects such as this, which I consider a pet project, to get out of hand, simply because the initial estimate was too optimistic. The stadium project was initially supposed to be $250 million for two stadiums; it ended up more than double that just for the football stadium. I didn't get into any of the other utilities, such as Level 3. Of course, if Duke ends up raising their rates to cover it, what do you think the other utilities are going to do? This is my own opinion, and not based on any official record from the City or anyone else. Most of my data came from this board, or from sources cited on this board, and I am going by memory. Take it for what it's worth. And, thanks for waiting. You don't really have a reason to get up to $250 million, other than that's what you've heard on 700WLW.

^Justify your $250 million figure 8th. We're waiting.

^Preserved for posterity.

The primary construction issue with the current streetcar proposal is utility relocation issues. In this way, construction of a streetcar is similar to construction of any other utility, such as a sewer, water main, gas main, etc. The basic rule of thumb is that the more stuff that needs to be moved out of the way, the more it's going to cost. Utilities always look at underground records when considering alternative alignments for new utilities, and adjust alignments accordingly. Of course, a water main is more flexible than a streetcar line, becaues the water main doesn't have to be coordinated with traffic. Anyone who works in the industry at Duke, Water Works, MSD, Cincinnati Bell, etc., could have said right off the bat that the proposed Downtown and Over-the-Rhine loop was going to be extraordinarily expensive. In fact, right after the 2007 feasibility study was published, I talked to someone in the industry, and he said that they didn't budget enough to relocate the utilities - not even close. The Over-the-Rhine loop can still be done, IF there is enough money in the budget to do it. I contend that the City just doesn't have the money; it is going to cost way more than ~$110 million, more like $250 million. That's the heart of the problem. Another possiblity might be to use a smaller rail vehicle that doesn't require such heavy tracks, more like a historic streetcar than a modern one, or shorten the route, or pick a different route, or even "gasp" use rubber-tired buses instead of rail. In any case, I don't think the City can afford to build the streetcar as it's currently planned with the budget they have, and Dohoney in his memo hinted so himself.

^Methinks his "source" is Mark Miller.

^Back up that $250 Million claim. And I still didn't see you post you're alternative route. But I did see a great deal of concern trolling.

Seconded. List your route. Put up or.....

Here we go, a front page story published at 2:59am and written by Barry Horstman and his Magical Hair Hat: http://news.cincinnati.com/article/20120828/NEWS/308290026/City-threatens-Duke-over-streetcar-costs TOASTer Streetcar/Mallory/Cincinnati bashing comment storm in 3,2,1....

The TOASTers are pushing a new one: Grandstanding Charlie Windbag demands end to Streetcar, alleges $20 Million cost for Duke to move utilities: Media Advisory Re Duke Gas & Electric Rates Re Streetcar 8 28 2012 Copy

Apparently TOAST's shortened link no longer works. Here's a corrected link: https://www.surveymonkey.com/s/odotpreference

I modified and retweeted a TOAST tweet from this evening: RT @GOCOAST: Let ODOT know Streetcars are answer to Ohio's transportation needs! Statewide Planning survey: http://po.st/peQLU I wasn't even aware that ODOT was conducting a survey. Many thanks to the Machiavellian geniuses at TOAST for letting all of us progressives, urbanists, socialists and Streetcar supporters know about the big ODOT survey!!! :clap: :clap: Be sure to take the survey and pass it along to a friend.

I modified and retweeted a TOAST tweet from this evening: RT @GOCOAST: Let ODOT know Streetcars are answer to Ohio's transportation needs! Statewide Planning survey: http://po.st/peQLU I wasn't even aware that ODOT was conducting a survey. Many thanks to the Machiavellian geniuses at TOAST for letting all of us progressives, urbanists, socialists and Streetcar supporters know about the big ODOT survey!!! :clap: Be sure to take the survey and pass it along to a friend.

Posted today on the TOAST blog in regard to the WVXU story: The chronic liars and perennial (sore) losers are at it again.

Ha, I was thinking the same thing. Mary got all gussied up in her Sunday-go-to-meeting clothes, didn't she? :-D

Crazy, racist Mary said "the citizens [of Cincinnati] do not want the streetcar..." Yea, that 's why they voted for it. Twice.

^Bingo. they want the poors bottled up in the City of Cincinnati. Look at the sh*tstorm that requiring Green Township to take a few Section 8 rentals has caused.

What Jake said. OTR was depopulated post-riot thanks to changes in the Section 8 program. The wide availability of Section 8 vouchers led to a mass exodus of the OTR's poor residents. Before the current revitalization started the neighborhood's population had dwindled to under 5000.

^Mary Kuhl of Westwood. Yet another non-resident of Blue Ash expressing their outrage at how Blue Ash governs its own city.