kjbrill

I agree it has not been praised a lot. But I also have seen very little organized opposition to it. Most has been standard press releases from either developers or various governmental officials who seem all for it. I get the feeling is we bettter grab off this development before Butler or Warren counties beat us to in. I also get the feeling it has the potential of turning Dayton Mall into another Forest Fair.

This project will do well with UC as its base without the streetcar. In fact, there are no official plans to loop it with the streetcar. The only official streetcar plans that exist take it from downtown/OTR, up vine, to the Zoo via Jefferson & Short Vine. The developer knows that. Utility relocation will likely occur the same way it does for all rail projrcts, after an official plan has been determined, although it would be interesting of the City could work with Duke (since Duke is currently tearing up Calhoun to replace its old pipes) to relocate them in an area that would be better suited to potential future streetcar plans. I don't get your last question but I think I answered it. Thanks for a resonable answer. I went and checked the existing streetcar route for uptown and it does not show it coming through this area. I just thought it might be prudent while doing extensive utility and intrastructure work to include some provision for a possible steetcar spur.

So, I simply ask whether the streetcar right-of-way will be included in this development for the future and immediately I have no value. I guess it is better to rip everything up if and when he streetcar gets extended to this area. That is part of the intent is it not?

It the uptown loop of the streetcar does not reach here, how will it affect this project? Will the right-of-ways be reserved? Will the utilities infrastructure be involved to avoid what is going on downtown right now? Who is in charge of this future?

Boy is this the way the City does everything? Ater wading through the Reeves Gof Course thing, I did find something located close to UC though I was still unsure what it was. And they want to know why the citizens are frustrated? Just wade through this piece of crap and you will know.

But something like the Brent Spence Bridge project is not an entirely new development, it is a replacement for an aging bridge. The fact the close to 5% of the entire annual product of the US flows down the I-75 corridor from Michigan to Florida tells you it will not be stopped. Some of the objections I have is the current plans call for entirely replacing the existing Brent Spence Bridge. I keep going Why? Why? as it is 48 years old. If it is so delapidated it is falling apart then abviously maintenace procedures were not in place and those responsible should be held to task. If it is a dangerous structure, then the Golden Gate in San Francisco which is 85 years old must be a danger to everyone who drives over it every day. Build a parallel bridge to the Brent Spence, likely of similar design. If the current traffic on the Brent spence is made one way, should be rather simple to do, the existing entrance exit ramps should be easily modified for one way traffic. There is then plenty of room for wider lanes, emergency stopping lanes etc. Make the new bridge a pretty much mirror image the opposite direction. But our public officials do not want to hear about conserving expenses. OH no, they have a concept of their own which just says NEW without regard to where the money comes from.

What I am saying is where are the protestors against this type of development when hearings are held on them. It seems the developers are just getting their way with no resistance. The developers are going to go with what makes them the most bucks.

To me having the official groundbreaking and still have the impasse with Duke Energy over the utilities makes no sense. It is like a couple of kids arguing over a backyard swing. I see this heading to a court fight. I look at it this way, Cincinnati says we are going to build this new streetcar and Duke says fine but these are the costs we will incur for relocating the utilitites. My belief is in a court fight Duke will win. Cincinnati might own the streets, but Duke is a public utility and they were there first. Will be interesting to see how it all comes out.

Maybe we should see if the streetcar can actually produce a positive benefit. And that seems to me to be a few years off. I believe to think there will be an explosion of any kind of rail traffic around here until the results of the strretcar are realized is a little more than wishful thinking.

Who do you think I am talking to. Those whose are committed to urban type developemts in the area should abhor this thing. This is just another urban sprawl development between Dayton and Cincinnati. Before long there will be so much sprawl that discussion of anything else will be mute.

Most of those I have encountered on this forum state they are dedicated to urban type developments. Then how can you be anything but against what is happening here? Office buildings with big-box stores interspersed along with a few cheaply constructed apartment buildings is not urban. Where is the common fabric? This is large scale development pure and simple. They say it will encompass 1200 acres, I believe that exceeds the total area of OTR in Cincinnati. The Liberty Towne Square in Warren county is more of the same. What I seem to sense is redevelopment in dilapidated areas like OTR in Cincinnati you understand, buy some proprerty cheap invest a few bucks and make a profit. But when it involves getting out there and mixing it up with the big developers you fold like a cheap tent.

About what I would expect out of the OKI regional council. They must remain optimistic about all of the proposed projects in the area otherwise people wonder what value they are. But the Big Monkey which sticks out is the Brent Spence Bridge. It is going to cost so much there will be little money for anything else.

But maybe you should understand that the young families with one in a carriage and a toddler need the security of this type of walkway. If you drive them out of the city you are losing years of patronage. Young yuppiie professionals alone will not rebuild the urban fabric. It takes a commitment far beyond that.

The reason I keep coming back at this is because it is a federal government facility. I believe the government has an obligation to select locations where they spend money on facilities which will benefit the largest number of people. There are many locations around Cincinnati which could have benefited from an infusion of money like this, including the west side. Six acres of land is nothing. You can demo a few dilapidated apartment buildings and get six acres. One area which comes to my mind is College Hill, or maybe Mt Healthy. I know I keep going on about this, but it is because I strongly feel it was a mistake. Kenwood represents a right off the expressway location where the employees can scatter up I-71 and still be convenient to work. I doubt if many of them will be living downtown and driving out to Kenwood every day. Even Mason is convenient to Kenwood, so maybe I should shut up because we may get quite a few of the employees living here. But I still feel it was a mistake.

Sorry if I got on my high horse. But really, defending this as just a move of a facility to the suburbs, come on. There are so many more locations which could have benefited from this. It is a simple case of Money Wins.

I know exactly where this site is. I used to walk between Madeira and Silverton along Euclid Rd over to Ken Arbre and then Montgomery with my mother when this was all just farmland, no Kenwood Plaza, no nothing. This development has nothing to do with helping a struggling neighborhood, it is greed pure and simple. I am amazed people on this forum cannot recognize there is zero urban content in this and recognize it for what it is, developer's greed.

Because it does absolutely nothing for the location which was chosen. It could have been an economic shot in the arm for so many other locations. That is why I hold my opinion. Stick it in Kenwood, right across the street from the largest retail mall in our area, and smack dab in the middle of a residential neighborhood. Tell me this was good sound urban planning and I have a few bridges to sell you. There is no reasonable criteria for why this ended up here. There is absolutely nothing isolated about this location, other than the fact they don't have to go downtown every day to work.

I don't think that's completely right. Isn't the Fifth Third Operations place in Madisonville on a pretty big scale? They could have done something over there, I guess. (I'd agree that doing something on Madison Road in "downtown Madisonville" would not fit in.) You're right, I was thinking downtown Madisonville, which it's what kjbrill mentioned. It wouldn't fit in there at all. Downtown Madisonville needs a major infusion or soon they will be bulldozing most of it to the ground. Six acres of ground, that is nothing. Go out on Madison Rd near Camargo, give me some bucks to play with and I will have you six acres of ground in a flash. I just don't agree there were several better selections than Kenwood for this facility. It is the old somebody greased some palms in this transaction.

That is fine, do what you feel you need to do. But don't disparage people who make a conscientous decision to improve their health by working out in a gym or fitness center. You might find they just have a little more determination built into them than you give credit for.

But you see, with their current location you can actually be outside of the I-275 loop and still be to work in Kenwood as fast as you could be downtown. So who are the losers here?

Ahh come on. The new FBI headquarters is on 6 acres of land. You trying to tell me there is not 6 acres right in the middle of Madisonville available for redevelopment? It really could have used the infusion of jobs, taxes, the whole nine yards.

So are you are telling me they could not have acquired a significant piece of property in Madisonville to build this facility? We are talking about what, 3 miles between Kenwood and Madisonville? Madisonville definitely needs a major infusion to uplift its infrastructure. It is a neighborhood defrinitely in need of assistance. But no, go to Kenwood and build right across from one of the biggest retail malls in the area. Endanger them right? That makes a whole lot of sense to me.

I totally agree, it is a pure money grab by the developers, just like the residential housing boom and horrible bust was. Now many of us are sitting in homes with dropped values. The worse are the newer homes where many owners now find they owe considerably more than the house is worth. I fault the governmental entities for permitting this. Where are the studies which validate these developments will realistically survive over a period of time? Put a nice artists conception sketch out there and not only get permission to build but a financial boost also. Liberty Township is just envious of both West Chester Township and Mason. They are bound and determined to match them in one big leap with this ill-advised development. If this development goes through it will be the end of Tri-County. I remember when living in Madeira and Tri-County was first built going there because it had a store I patronized - Sears and Kenwood Plaza did not. As you can tell this was a few years ago. When I moved to Mason I went to Tri-County quite a lot, with Mason basically having a Feed & Grain, two hardware stores, and not much else. But then we went through the evolution of first Kenwood Mall and then the large expansion of Tri-County Mall into double stories complete with parking garages. Kenwood became Kenwood Towne Center, massive and horrible to get in/out of. Same thing with Tri-County Mall, there is no way you can have a pleasant experience going there. So if the population centers up north provide a more convenient shopping experience they will die. But that is not something I want to see. This is strictly pat the developers on the ass for short term profits but nothing sustainable for the long run. While I believe the suburbs will be around for a long time, I have to agree this constant development for short term gains does not make sense.

Sorry, I still feel the FBI is nothing but a liability for Kenwood. If they are concerned so much about the defendable perimiter while also staying close to downtown why didn't they go to Madisonville and renovate about half of that downtown which sorely needs it?

Has PayCor actually expressed any interest in Oakley, or is this just speculation the developer would be more than happy to unload a large portion of his remaining land with a single floor commercial office building built out of corrugated steel and a large cheap asphalt surface lot.