kjbrill

Uh, urbanites? People in walkable areas tend stay healthy for a much longer potion of their lives than ones in unwalkable areas. Sprawl effectively cuts off your legs. Indeed, people don't have the time to just browse around a mall these days. The move to a 24/7 service economy has destroyed they idea of a 9-5 job for many, and all that time spent driving has eroded the free time of Americans. And people who have concerns about this have more than ample opportunity to counteract it. I should tell all the people I see either just walking or jogging in my neighborhood they must realize it is impossible to keep physically fit in suburbia. And the number of fitness centers we have within 2 miles almost equals the number of pizza joints and that is saying something. People concerned about their health will actually pay to keep it up. At 72 I don't go out of my way to walk. But I venture to say I probably walk more in 2 rounds of golf a week in good weather than most urban dwellers do in a week. BTW what does this have to do with the Cincinnati Skywalk?

Urban areas are inherently suited to this type of atmosphere. I suppose that alludes to everything is in walking distance. But what is the distance? People have rejected the Mega-Mall and they will reject the downtown for the same reasons if it does not meet their criteria. Or have you discovered the new super race, physically fit, segment of our population which is going to take over? Please identify.

Ahh, the real reason. The defendable perimeter is just a rouse. The real reason is their employees are close to the desirable living in Blue Ash and Montgomery without the hassle of going downtown every day. Why can't they simply state that rather than some BS about a defendable perimeter? BTW are the additional office tower and hotel for Kenwood Green under construction or on hold?

The problem is developers have to develop or their business stagnates and ceases. So they constantly have to create new territory. They have little regard for what is in the best interest of the neighborhood as that is not their concern. Their concern is simply the continuation of their business. So they will concentrate on the easy pickings, the townships. Present a township with a plan stating increased revenue from property taxes and you have an almost guaranteed approval. Look at the Kenwood Green development at the intersetion of I-71 and Montgomery Rd. That is about as green as my back yard. This development is totally unnecessary. The Liberty Township Trustees seem to think it will give them a downtown atmosphere. If they want a downtown then talk about incorporating part of the township and passing a master plan for city development. This plan is nothing more than feathering the nests of a few developers.

Yes, but for the next thirty years it will be stiffling the concept of the rebirth of urban development.

I understand that one of the problems is people needing services need to be conveniently located relative to where the services are offered. So is there a plan to locate shelters, etc. in the vicinity of this operation?

Sorry if I offended eveyones sensibilities. But I will stand by my comment that the former Milacron property plus all the other abandoned industrial property such as Williamson furnace in Oakley represents an opportunity lost for urban development. Being right next door to undoubtedly the premier urban inner-ring community of Hyde Park, this has to be considered a blown opportunity which does not come along very often. When I drive down I-71 and see the big-box store signs from the highway, excuse me but it looks just like West Chester.

The Mega Mall concept is falling out of vogue virtually country wide. Kenwood Towne Center has managed to hold its own pretty well but the few times I have been there recently it was pretty bare during the week. Tri-County is even worse, as it is pretty bare all the time. Of course Forest Fair, Cincinnati Mills, Cincinnati Mall whatever they are calling it now never really got of the ground from day one. Northgate and Eastgate malls have both had their problems. The concept of going to a mall and spending most of the day wandering from store to store and "shopping" is just not what most people desire today. Open air designs like Bridgewater Falls in Hamilton, Deerfield Towne Center, Anderson Towne Center have been much more succesful. How to create this type of atmosphere in downtown Cincinnati is definitely a challenge.

Yes I do, but hopefully I am not paranoid about it. If it is necessary to protect all of our federal facilitites from potential terrorist attacks, then why consider a tranquil suburban neighborhood as the place to do it? To me this is rediculous. If a defendable perimeter is the base requirement, then keep it far away from civilian concentrations. This is right across the street from one of the largest suburban malls, Kenwood Towne Center in the area. So what do they have in place to defend this permiter? Mortars, laser guided missles, what? Sometimes these contentions just leave me with a blank look - What?

So are you telling me the current location of the FBI regional office is primarily because they can secure the periphery in good old Kenwood? I am sure the local residents were aware of this at the time? Come on, find some other objectives. If I was a resident anywhere close to this Kenwood location and felt it was chosen because of a defendable periphery I would be screaming to High Heaven.

You've waded into a long-established conversation as an absolute newcomer and set about picking fights, telling long-term, well-informed members they're wrong and worse. You would have done well to have paid attention to the discourse for a while and figured out who was who, and then entered some carefully thought-out comments to establish yourself as a thoughtful participation in the discussion. Heed that advice; it might serve you well in future interactions in other forums. I suspect your future here is short. OK, you do not like my style. Yes, I like to mix it up a little, paticularly when I see a forum with a lot of parrot agreement and very little argumentative discourse. If all you want to do is to pat yourselves on the back you are all in agreement on the subjects you don't need an internet forum. Just email yourselves how great you conclusions are. If you want to portend this is an open forum, then at least give some semblance to it.

So do you believe a fortress style building can be better disquised in Kenwood than downtown? Where do you stick out like a sore thumb? Bury it downtown, as it is much more likely to get lost there.

Who are "you people"? I don't see anyone calling this a great, green development. At best, people are saying it's a little better than average for a suburban development, due to its density. Which does make it a bit more green than usual, but I see a lot of talk here about it being auto-oriented. Basically, I think people agree with your assessment. The LEED certification criteria have a lot of blind spots. "You people" sounds antagonistic, which is especially weird when you don't seem to be disagreeing with anyone. Sorry about the global "you people" remark. I was thinking mostly about comments in the thread the local residents had gone to bat to get the zoning changes necessary. As I said, I grew up in that area, and the only reason the adjacent residential areas would ever vote for such a change is the hope in coming years it would expand southward and inflate their property value. This is nowhere near a green development. It is strictly a money grab to build something on a sliver of ground bringing more into the township treasury. The Kenwood Towne Centre is already a traffic nightmare, but I have noticed less as the number of patrons willing to put up with it is decreasing. I believe the FBI building is a reality - am I correct? This is absolutely a horrible location to place a regional FBI headquarters. It belongs downtown with the rest of the federal agencies which will hopefully remain there. If the City is truly the vibrant core of the region, all Federal operations should be there. An FBI headquarters in Kenwood - Why? My guess is they believe their employees would rather live in that area than downtown. Whatever other reason is there? But the fact is the Federal agencies do need to be located downtown so they can best serve the requirements of the entire Cincinnati Metro area. What are these people in Kenwood going to go, converge on bad guys out in Loveland?

So you are telling me that maintenance of the Skywalk is less than its demolition? I guess if you do nothing but let it sit there and deteriorate that is true.

A Green Development in Kenwood, you have to be kidding me. One of the original, 1060s suburban developments in the nation. Now you are telling me they are going green? I you call cramming $30 million or more of development or more on 12 acres of land and labeling it green you people are worse off than we were 40 years aqo.

Not sure what you mean by "opposition to the streetcar". City voters indirectly approved the streetcar plan by rejecting Issue 9 in 2009 and Issue 48 in 2011. They also re-elected a pro-Streetcar mayor in 2009 and voted a majority pro-streetcar city council (7 support, 2 oppose) in 2011. The opposition is largely coming from people who don't live in the city (therefore can't vote on it) and the local media that refuses to accurately cover the issue. As for light rail... I have no doubt that when gas hits $5 or $6 a gallon, people that commute from West Chester to Downtown for work everyday will be looking to move closer to the city or support a light rail plan that saves them money. We already saw some suburbanites making pro-rail comments after ODOT announced the construction of I-75 was being delayed 15 years. Yes... rail plans take a long time to build. But you plan for a something that will connect the whole region, and then you start building one part of the plan at a time. I-75 or I-71 light rail could be up and running in a few years, with additional light rail, streetcar, and commuter routes added every few years, in addition to new bus routes and neighborhood bus hubs. In 30 or 40 years, you have a region that's well-connected by mass transit. OK, maybe you need to research your history a little more. At one point, SouthWestern Ohio had rail lines everywhere, that was the primary means of travel. And the majority of them were privately owned. So over a relatively short period of years they all decided to throw in the towel - Why? The horseless carriage had not taken over yet, and the Interstate Highway System was a distant vision. But they still folded in large numbers. So give me the reason for this.

Just reading the remarks at this date on this subject, and I have been told I need to get with the program. This thread is 6 years old. That is how long the streetcar project has taken to get at this point. Then we are told, on what is expected to be the start of construction, the City of Cincinnati and Duke Energy are at an impasse over the cost of utility relocation. Duke says the City must pay or they will not begin work. The City says no you must pay as a public utility you are required to relocate. First of all, why was this not decided a long time ago, during the various periods when the streetcar project was taken to the voters? To me shows what great planning went into this endeavor. But that aside, why should Duke be required to pay for the cost of utility relocation? Let me make it more simple than that. If Duke is required to relocate the utilities, they should be able to recoup the cost from those who are going to benefit. I keep being told how this streetcar is going to spur development and raise property values along the line. Fine, so let those who will benefit pay for the utility relocation cost via a surcharge on their utility bills spread over say 20 or 30 years.

Frankly, when I first came into this thread and read about certain sections of the Skywalk coming down I thought they were the final remnants. I got that idea from remembering how many years ago it was announced the Skywalk was considered archaic and would be demolished. I was very surprised to learn how much of it is still standing. To say that Tower Place Mall is a failure because it tried to emulate a suburban enclosed mall I think is a real stretch. The failure is simply a lack of retail customers. As a youth I remember going downtown with my mother for a day of shopping. We tramped alll over the place, Shillito's, McAlpins, Mabley & Crew, Pogues, it was quite a workout. We came down on the bus and went home the same way. Actually they were originally streetcars which then gave way to trolley buses. But it was very simple, suburban malls did not exist. Once they built Kenwood Plaza that was the end of our shopping trips downtown. Just way more convenient going to the mall. In the same vein, the suburban mega-malls are falling out of vogue. You spend way too much time just getting in, walking a mile or so, and getting back out. If you look at most of the newer suburban malls they are open-air designs where you can usually park close to the store you are interested in and get in/out quickly. That is the challenge I see for downtown retail. How do you concentrate enough stuff people want in a small enough footprint where quick in/out is realistic? The rejuvenation of downtown residential will certainly assist this, but I feel critical mass has a ways to go.

OK, and who put these developers in place to be the developers? Was it the former owners of the property who sold it to them or what? Is it just another case of money talks? I am just saying it was a great opportunity lost for an urban type development, very near, virtually adjacent to Hyde Park. Years from now, hindsight will recognize it as an opportunity lost.

Because people in the burbs have never blamed the city over anything, right?!?!? You want to act like an ass, you will be treated like one here. Your comments and your tone over the past few days has shown your true colors. You feel my tone is antagonistic? What about yours. I simply point out some opportunities for urban type developments which have been blown completely and you want to jump down my throat. I did not blow the opportunity. Apparently you urbantes have a lot less security with your position than you would like people to believe. Any little criticism not even directed at any one organization, but just in general is met with vile remarks. You apparently have only one mindset, agree with us and back our position 100% or get lost. Sounds like some politicians I know. Glad I am not so insecure in my lifestyle.

Why do you feel I have an animosity against the urban life? I have no such thing. What I have an animosity against is the urbanites constantly bashing the suburbs. If they are so confident in their lifestyle, then let other people alone with theirs. Quit blaming the suburbs for all the ills of society. I simply pointed out the Oakley developments, with adequate parcels of land available, have not been images of true urban development. No one stood up and declared what an excellent opportunity it was for mixed use, residential and commercial, urban lifestyle development. It was a parcel of land with a large price tag on it, so it went to the highest bidder. Simple to see who bid the most money.

My comments are strickly oriented to the point if you cannot get an organized urban development in this area of Cincinnati, quit banging on the suburbs. The same underlying conditions are working here, big money developers with big box company clients. I see the exact same conditions being developed here as where I live. Their money rules. The only reason they are not doing it downtown is it is not worth their while, expenses out ot sight, too few customers spread across too much territory. As I see it, the major developments in Oakley appear to me to be decidedly not urban, but far more suburban. So explain it to me, how did this happen? Or did the developers, with their money, decide the local people desired a more suburban atmosphere so they would not travel northward? It is obvious they were not traveling downtown since there is little for them to shop at. I beleve I will see the day when there are many people living within the downtown district, but having to come out to the suburbs to shop for clothing, appliances, and other essentials of life, since the costs of retail business within the City are rediculous. These will be the telling times. BTW, can you even buy a refrgerator in downtown Cincinnati today?

Boy, you people must be figuring on living a long time. The Streetcar still has virtually no physical commitments in the ground and an even hazier date for actual operation. Yet you want to extrapolate that into a mandate to construct lite rail throughout the region. Guess everybody missed the opposition to the streetcar. I will not lament that, I would just like to see it move forward at more than a snails pace so we call all see the result. But to think lite rail will be realistic in this locality, maybe 2030, 2040 or later. Frankly I am not planning on being around then. But I would like to ask where the financing will come from - another stadium tax? You had all better gear up for Federal Financing making the 1960s Federal Interstate Highway Bill look like a bunch of pikers. I just do not see this happening. As far as the growth potential of the City, once TIF is realized to benefit only the developers, with basically nothing in the coffers of the City, that will come to an abrupt halt. You can only defer costs so long, and once you bridge where the City itself is in trouble they cannot any longer support you.

So why all of the off-topic discussions of tunnels, etc? From what I have seen the Eastern Corridor project is not even close to any forward movement. The major reason is there is no funding. They don't even have funds to extend the evaluation and planning stage beyond its current time-frame, and there is absolutely zero available to start any kind of construction. The only people who keep publicizing this are the ones involved in the planning process, because without it they have no jobs. Face it, this project is about as dead as Ford Motor Co. coming back to Batavia.

I just hope Cincinnati actually gets off its ass and starts building something. While I have had my reservations, enough is enough and now it is time to get things done. If they don't get busy soon I will not live long enough to see whether it is successful or not. Like most government projects if they say 2 you can figure 5 years. By that time many people have forgotten the original objective. I think that is what they are banking on.