kjbrill

I frankly don't know what Cranley's ax to grind is. As I understand it he is a candidate for Mayor of Cincinnati and vows he will stop the streetcar no matter where it is. I do hope the voters of Cincinnati are smarter than this. Millions have already been spent on the streetcar. So does Cincinnati want to be known as the city with both a subway and a streetcar in uncompleted disarray? This is not the time to stop it. Complete it and then decide whether it is a good investment or not. The people of Cincinnati who voted for it deserve this. Unless the vote for Mayor also is a vote to continue the streetcar or not they are not directly connected.

No, actually CVG's long-term plan is to stop operating the underground train altogether and connect the terminal to Concourse A with a skywalk. Concourses B and C are to be demolished in the long term. Aren't you glad the airport's Board of Directors is making an active effort to shrink the airport rather than attempt to grow it? Please advise the source of this information. I absolutely cannot fathom they are planning the demolition of Concourse B, it is beautiful. Concourse C I can see, as it was a cheap construction to serve Comair plastered out in the middle of the tarmac, with stupid shuttle bus access. And why stop the tram between the main terminal and concourses A & B. It exists and is reliable. I am not aware of any exhorbitant maintenance or operating costs associated with it. So why would it be abandoned? So please cite your sources as I believe several of us just think you made this up.

I took this to mean the City will actually authorize work to begin on the cars on 2/8/2013. Even though the vendor had been selected no actual work on the cars would be done until the City gives the goahead. Does that agree with you all's understanding?

The detractors should just shut up and let it be built. The voters have said - twice - that is what they want. So get it done and the quicker the better. The voters deserve to see what the actual final cost will be and whether it will be wildly successful or a huge drain on public subsidies. This will be the basis for public opinion on future rail projects in Cincinnati and needs to be realized.

I did not say it was a great place. I simply said it is the only place on the entire eastern side of Cincinnati from downtown to the eastern suburbs which has the ability to draw an upscale crowd. At least the east side has someplace, the west side has zilch. I still believe the further out suburbs have enough to offer few of us ever have to go to places such a KTC. So yes I do believe as time goes on and people value their time versus the shopping experience places like KTC will begin to degrade. It will be slow because those who desire to experience the upscale shopping experience have so few places to go.

I am not debating anything specific other than the projected completion of Kenwood Towne Place seems excessive to me. But you can ignore my opinion as I am only a retired engineer so I obviously have no background in this. I am not versed in what legal entanglements may still exist. I believe there may be several. But the current owners should be upfront about this, this is what we still have to wade through, and this is when we believe actual construction will start, and this is our target opening date. What is so difficult about that? It is called being open with the public. I do believe Kenwood Towne Place was an ill-conceived development, shoehorned on a too small plot of ground. Of course others will disagree as it is adjacent to the highest profile shopping center in Cincinnati. What is this called - money breeds money? But a good design it is not, as I said it is shoehorned on the plot of ground. Kenwood Towne Center will be around for quite a while. Reasons, just look who shops there. Go south and east, through Madeira, Indian Hill, Mariemont and further, what do you find? Not a whole lot. You can go all the way out on the east side to Eastgate and you find nothing comparable to Kenwood. You can do west and south towards downtown. The only place which holds a candle is Rookwood Commons and Rookwood Exchange and they still have a long way to go to equal Kenwood. Downtown itself has about zilch. So from all the way downtown out to Kenwood, it is the destination. Then you can go directly west from Kenwood. With that in mind you will pass near Norwood and all the way cross the Mill Creek Valley. Is there anything today there resembling a shopping center? I could go further but will not. The entire east side of the City of Cincinnati has only one designated close to upscale shopping area and it is Kenwood Towne Center. Since it is not even in the City, to me this is a sorry state of affairs.

You are exactly right, it is reshuffling the deck. Who said it was bringing anything exciting or innovative? But that is part of the point. As I posted earlier, a few years ago the outlet malls up I-71 near Washington Court House and Jeffersonville were jammed with shoppers from Cincinnati and Columbus. Now they are becoming ghost towns, and the locals who worked there are without jobs. Do you think Cincinnati Premium Outlets and the one up closer to Columbus did not cause this? The big deal is these new developments bleed off customers from somewhere else. It is like saying Bridgewater Falls in Butler Co, Deerfield Towne Center in Warren Co, and Union Center Boulevard in Butler Co. have had no effect on Tri-County Mall. OH YEA, then what has? For years people here in Mason went to Tri-County Mall and I believe people in Fairfield/Hamilton and all of Westchester Township went to Tri-County Mall. Now it is obvious, nobody goes. As you say, what is there different to mark our presence, everything has been duplicated closer to us. It does not have to be innovative or exciting, it only has to be close and identifiable. Years ago I used to drive to Middletown Towne Mall to the McAlpins which was there as it was a pleasant drive and compared to Tri-County or Kenwood a beeze to actually park and go into the store. For some time it was one of our favorite stores to visit. But then things interfer. They built more crap along Ohio 63 and I-75 at the Middletown exit. So it became more complicated, equated with slower. The quality of the store began to drop, I am not sure why. I will just go back to if you think the whole landmass around the Austin Landing interchange is not going to affect the quality of life in that area, we are totally on different wavelengths. Today's developments in the rural hinterlands are not about bringing in sometime unique. It is about replicating where people actually go to spend their money. Put up a Lowe's and Home Depot. Add in a Kroger plus a Super-Walmart and a nice Meijer. Factor in a Target and a Kohl's and you are more than halfway there. Anything unique, absolutely not. Are they dominating the retail landscape, yes they are.

Jeffrey... I was not just speaking of the area immediately around the interchange where development is currently happening. That land is about what, perhaps 300-400 acres total. I am also talking of the additional 800 to 1,000 acres nearby which the interchange affects. and Montgomery Co. included in their projections. Your comment the traffic counts blew past the long term projections in the first year to me is very significant. Traffic counts is one of the parameters developers zero in on. I am not stupid enough to believe this is going to fill up overnight in this economy. But I do believe the die is cast and as it fills out it will impact closeby areas like Dayton Mall and the planned rejuvenation of Middletown Towne Mall. The Middletown facility I believe is the most vulnerable since it is already rundown and what can you put in there shoppers can't find in nearby Cincinnati Premium Outlets?

Strange, it's not major league in my evaluation. :laugh: If you don't consider 1,200 to 1,500 acres of commercial development to be major in scope, what do you consider it to be? Or are you saying people are over-speculating and much of it will never materialize? The main justification for the expense of the interchange prtesented by Montgomery Co. was the opening up of the commercial development, not just a more convenient access from the south to Springboro and Miamisburg.

Of course not, they just mentioned a $130,000 public toilet. Anyone who thinks that is a reasonable cost should run for public office as you fit right in with the rest of the dimwits. Cut that to somewhere around $60,000 or less and it may be within reason. As for the DAAPers who jumped up and down when I commented maybe they could create a less expensive design specific for Cincinnati, let's see what happens when your co-op employer does an evaluation and decides they can no longer afford to underwrite the cost of supporting higher education which happened to many of my classmates back in the 50s and my son's class in the 70s to the tune they had to go 2 full straight years in school as there were no co-op jobs to be had. I just feel so bad even suggesting you design something for the public good which is so much below your dignity.

wallabro... Of course I have seen Austin Landing. It may be in its early stages now, but I have seen between 1200 and 1500 acres of land scoped for development. That is far more than just a simple interchange with a few establishments, it is major league in anybody's evaluation. All development is slowed down due to the economic climate. So give it another five years and see what sits there.

The City itself better get better if it wants CVG to evolve into a relatively balanced organizational structure. The Board of Directors would rather take handouts than risk losing their financially lucrative job by committing to something meaningful, meaningful meaning long-term. 500,000+ city, 3,000,000 MSA, 4,000,000 CSA stabilizes CVG more than any "action" I expect to see in the next 15 years. I tend to agree much of the problem with CVG is connected to Cincinnati. You mention a 500,000+ city. How long do you think that is going to take to happen? Quit complaining about CVG as they are only reacting to both the airline industry and what is happening in Cincinnati, neither one of which are exactly upstring. If subsequent transit lines are completed almost sequentially after the opening of the father line, i.e. Oasis, Uptown Connector, I-75 LRT, Central Parkway subway, Wasson, then Cincinnati could eclipse 500,000 in 2027. There's also the possibility Cincinnati annexes before then. I complain about CVG because I have impetus to. They knew the hub explosion in the 2000s was fifteen minutes of fame and never lifted a finger to promote passenger confidence outside of Delta providing over 300 daily flights. CVG has to be the worst of all its similarly-sized brethren. There isn't a major airport within 300 miles that's worse. Geography plays a big part in airport potency, but no one was complaining about Cincinnati's geography when half the West Coast was being welcomed to Kentucky on all their cross-country and Old World destinations. I beg to disagree with you. Just who is the they you refer to? CVG is probably one of the best airports within 300 miles. Look at the infrastructure they have in place in terms of runways, etc. and then look at the potential. They have one of the best reclamation and anti-pollution systems in the country for such items as anti-freezing solution sprayed on aircraft prior to takeoff. How do you fault CVG with their response to Delta? Like any business, you respond to your biggest customer. Yes things went sour, but that was not CVG's fault, it was not even Delta's fault, it was a global change in the airline industry.

That all boils down to what is your opinion of what is on topic and what is not. In a discussion like Austin Landing it boils down to whether this is a large suburban sprawl development or not. It also boils down as to who is it benefiting in the surrounding community. So please inform me as to how this is directly benefiting the surrounding community? Is it helping with their tax base, support of schools, etc? Is it providing needed facilities, shopping, etc. which have not been available within a reasonable distance? Please identify what it is providing other than just another mish-mash interchange.

The City itself better get better if it wants CVG to evolve into a relatively balanced organizational structure. The Board of Directors would rather take handouts than risk losing their financially lucrative job by committing to something meaningful, meaningful meaning long-term. 500,000+ city, 3,000,000 MSA, 4,000,000 CSA stabilizes CVG more than any "action" I expect to see in the next 15 years. I tend to agree much of the problem with CVG is connected to Cincinnati. You mention a 500,000+ city. How long do you think that is going to take to happen? Quit complaining about CVG as they are only reacting to both the airline industry and what is happening in Cincinnati, neither one of which are exactly upstring.

You hope. It has only been within the last month I saw they were floating bond issues to pay for part of the first phase. I hope your confidence is warranted.

And I would probably not take so much offense at your calling me a jerk. Seems to be the popular thing, if you don't agree with someone's views either call them a jerk or a troll. I guess either of those declarations removes someone from involvement. I do not feel compelled to search for your definition of common ground. I did not see a posting stating this is the common ground of this forum. In fact, when you login I find it to be conspicuous by the absence there is not even an easily viewed Vision and Mission statement for the forum. So what is its purpose? The Forum Name implies it is to further the urban living environment within Ohio. But where is the Mission Statement? If 100% of the content is to parrot all of the current urban living advocates, I will gladly exit. But if the intent is to formulate how the urban living advocates can coexist with the suburban advocates I am all for it. Somehow I sense the urbanites want nothing to do with that. So maybe they need to struggle more with why KTC is the only viable shopping destination in Cincinnati and it is not within the city. I virtually never go there because I have so many more options out here in the great wasteland of suburban sprawl I live in.

Well quite frankly I do not hate sprawl. I live in sprawl and like it just fine. I perfectly enjoy watching the wildlife we feed on a regular basis. I enjoy watching the people walking the neighborhood or biking/jogging on the bike trails around town. I enjoy seeing the literally dozens of youth athletic fields around town and all of the kids utilizing them. And yes I like the fact I can sometimes go weeks without stumbling coming or going. What I dislike is totally uncontrolled sprawl, the kind where anything goes, with no semblance of zoning or balance in mind. This is usually found in areas under township control. It is my experience that people in townships are devoted to the idea everyone has the right to do as they please.

It is not whether I am a fan of Austin Landing. It is about whether it is being presented fairly. Once I saw the total number of acres involved, now somewhere between 1200 and 1500 I thought this is a large endeavor by any measurement. The city of Springboro is doing everything they can so they bite off their piece of the pie. I only take the exit since it opened to access a road to a golf course I like. It is less distance and time than taking a further north exit where I have to backtrack. That's the only use I have for it. I only object to its not being called what it is, a large scale development at another interstate interchange which has one singular purpose - to feather the nests of the developers. I also love some of the current terms being used such as Lifestyle Center. Whose lifestyle? They all remind me of the open air strip malls of the 1950s such as Kenwood Plaza. The only difference is they cover more land and have more strips. You MAY be able to park closer to your destination store, but that is debatable. I believe what I am against is filling up every interstate interchange between Cincinnati and Dayton with a sprawling commercial development. Like every other fad, it takes its toll. A few years ago people flocked to the outlet malls up I-71 near Washington Court House and Jeffersonville. Today they have more vacant stores than occupied. Do you think Cincinnati Premium Outlets at Ohio 63 and I-75 may have anything to do with that? And how many remember there was actually an enclosed outlet mall at the north I-71 Kings Island Exit? I shopped there for awhile until the stores bellied up. The building was converted into a large office for a credit processing outfit - they left. It has gone through several conversions and quite frankly I can't tell you if it is currently occupied or vacant. I can tell you it is not retail. No, it is not I like dislike Austin Landing. It is that I dislike every development of its type where everything goes. Look at the Ohio 63 and I-75 interchange. Cincinnati Premium Outlets next to a huge transportation trucking depot. What a beautiful combination. And across the road a couple of flea markets, aren't they just beautiful. And recently OKed construction of a racino moving the Lebanon Raceway license. Give it a couple of years and you won't be able to get through this interchange in less than 20 minutes.

To try and get the thread back on track, the best I can find is the new owner of Kenwood Towne Place says it will be ready for tenants in the office portion beginning March, 2014. Seems a little long to me for something with the structural steel already standing, but I don't know if any work has begun. There may still be legal issues which have to be resolved before work can continue. Does anyone have more current knowledge of what is happening at the site? Would hate to be one of the lower level retail tenants while they are still trying to complete the office tower.

Exactly. So heed your own advice and don't immediately call projects happening in the city a failure. That's all you hear from suburbanites, and in this day in age, it's always so nice to shut them up when cities are enjoying an immense rebound. And just what exactly does this have to do with Austin Landing, which is about as suburban as you can get? If you have a point I certainly missed it. Shocking that you missed my point. :roll: I am tired of you trolling on here bashing anything that goes on in the city, yet come stomping in here quick to defend the suburbs. You want to call us ridiculous? Look in the mirror. You're trolling at best on this site. So point being: Heed your own advice. Don't quickly jump to calling something a failure without seeing it through. The point you were trying to make with Austin Landing. Yet, somehow you have the right to talk down on urban development before ground is even broken? Right. If you don't get that, I don't know how else to explain it to you. Move along then. On to the next one. :wink: Please identify what I have been bashing relative to any city. In addition, this project has about zero to do with a city. It is suburban sprawl pure and simple. When I object to it as unncessary please identify just how it is bashing a city. Are you contending this is an extension of the City of Dayton? How contrite.

CincyInTheKnow... Glad you have some spunk as the lead character on the Mary Tyler Moore show said and dispute my opinion. But being overly defensive on the compenstion point tells me you are still green behind the ears. Compensation is earned, plain and simple. The example you cited of the project in Tanzania likely would not have existed without US government financial aid. A good project yes, but not something which stood on its own. This particular subject happens to be concerned whether the citizens of Cincinnati should be availed of a nice, sanitary, and clean public toilet. I happen to believe they should be. At the same time I believe they are being ripped off in price. You say there are many available from catalogs. So instead of being indignant when I suggest a new, more economical design, as a project for DAAP, then please come forth with your already available catalog designs and present them. I am sure the citizens of Cincinnati would appreciate that information.

Caseyc... So you are telling me the rear of the building is shorter than the front in the number of stories? This is kind of strange, but so what? It should not be so difficult to design a fire escape from the top floor to the bottom, even if it has an offset(s) in it. That top floor has to have some rear wall holding it up. Attach the fire escape there and then offset it if the next floor down does not line up. I still say that building would be so much more attractive without that fire escape across its front. It is like putting a gas mask on the Mona Lisa. Maybe you can get used to it but do you really want to?

I understand Delta has a lease on Concourse C until 2025. Obviously they did not anticipate what happened to the hub concept. I would expect Delta to be happy to give up their lease for the next 12 years, maybe even be willing to kick in a few shekels for the demo cost to get rid of the lease. If the airport is stuck with a remaining debt on the building, that is what happens when you overextend.

They can't destroy Terminal 1 & 2 quick enough. They look like third world Dayton terminals and it would be nice to connect Concourse C with A & B via underground tram. Any plans... Demo Terminals 1 & 2 definitely but at the same time Concourse C. It was just a cheap ass construction to serve Comair with no jetways, and also no underground baggage handling. Level the sucker, it was an atrocity from the beginning. The only thing I hope is they do something to salvage the ceramic murials moved from Union Terminal when they demo Terminals 1 & 2. It would be a shame to lose them as they are part of Cincinnati history. I believe a few are in the lower level areas at the front of the terminals where the baggage claim is located. BTW - where there any dates on those plans? I doubt it as we are talking WAY into the future. The things which should be high on the agenda are the demolition of Terminals 1 & 2 and Concourse C just to eliminate any ongoing maintenance expense.

What does the rear of the building abut? Is it open to an alley or something? Could the fire escape be moved to there? I have to agree that fire escape ruins an otherwise beautiful facade.