DontGiveUptheFight

Would it be possible to have the West Shore Commuter rail and a potential Orange Line running on the same N&S tracks? My thoughts are that an RTA line to Lakewood could be up and running in a shorter period of time because it is a smaller project. It could even be an extension of one of the Green-Blue lines west instead being a line of its own color. Furthermore, the tracks through Lakewood run close enough to Detroit Ave that it should be able to pull cars off that street. Of course, the station entrances must face Detroit Ave to spur TOD and not to steal pedestrians away from Detroit Ave. First get a downtown Lakewood - Tower City line running and then work on a separate expanded service from Lorain on one end to Mentor (via UC) on the other. I just get the feeling that focusing on the bigger project means that we'll have to wait longer for it to happen.

From what I've been reading, it seems that after Kasich's term that another study needs to be done and more years will pass before 3C is built. Why can't we continue where we left off? When the next governor starts his term (hopefully Kasich is voted out at the end of this one), the 3C study won't be *that* old. Spending more time for another study just looks like another obstacle that prevents us from getting things done efficiently.

The Chicago-Detroit line and the Buffalo-NYC line has me a little worried. Connect the two lines through Ontario and the Chicago-NYC route bypasses Ohio entirely. Although Buffalonians would benefit more from this route than a Chicago-NYC corridor running through Cleveland, Pittsburgh, and Philly.

Another thought: people have said that families won't move back until the schools improve, but there are good schools in Cleveland, they're just not well publicized. Maybe it'd be worthwhile to promote the schools that are doing well in TV spots and magazines to attract people to live in those neighborhoods? Of course, the money from such promotion would NOT come from the Board of Ed, but from tourism or whoever is in charge of recruiting people to live in the city.

Since the Aerotropolis article appeared in the PD this spring, has anything happened? I think the natural route of development of such an aerotropolis would be along the Red Line from West Park to Berea. This way, only three cities need to collaborate, Cleveland, Brook Park, and Berea. A rail link that already runs alongside would also be able to transport cargo between the airport and the lakefront port. What is the future of the I-X Center? Have they decided whether they are tearing it down or keeping it? It seems like the decision makers are always hemming and hawing on this one. I ask this because if they are keeping it, then it makes sense to extend the Red Line to the I-X Center (and onto Berea) and build a hotel next to it. I think it's rather silly that the airport hotel is so far from the I-X Center. A combined airport-hotel-convention center is what makes for a convenient aerotropolis. But if the eventual plan is to tear down the I-X Center when the downtown convention center/medical mart is built, then there's no need to sink the investment. However, that would mean spending more money to build another convention center near the airport, unless people are talking about refitting the Ford plant as a convention center. An industrial-themed convention center would certainly look cool, but I think the Ford plant is staying open.

Re: City Flag - Yes, I would like the city to have the pride to fly its flag everywhere, but I think the Cleveland city flag is in need of a redesign. I think red, white, and blue + coat of arms is about as generic as you can get. The city flag should be something simple, memorable, and easy to draw. Something that people will want to have tattooed on themselves! Design something stylish, and I think people will naturally want to fly it. Perhaps we can draw inspiration from Ohio's unique pennant flag? Maybe a play on the city seal? Or a flag with an outline of the Terminal Tower? These are just some thoughts to kick around.

I know it's been mentioned before, but I really do have a soft spot for "Believeland," even if it is used mostly in sporting events. It has the same meaning as "Comeback City." With other Rust Belt cities trying to make a comeback, I think Believeland makes a unique fit for the city, though the rhyme might be considered hokey. Re: Memphis' image v. Cleveland's - in addition to more rock-themed signs, bus stations, other public things, what about steel-industry themed? Rock and industry seem to be a complementary fit. I'm just imagining bus stops stylized with gears, riveted walls, and tangles of pipes. I think Cleveland's image could get some kind of "grit cred" (if such a thing exists) if it stylized itself as some kind of Rust Belt chic, steampunk city. I like how this Urbanophile post puts it: "the mark of a great city is in how it treats its ordinary places, not its special ones." http://www.urbanophile.com/2008/02/03/pecha-kucha-night/ Also, we need a proper steel museum, not just the small, garage-sized one at Steelyard Commons. This is the huge steel complex in Monterrey, Mexico, which they have successfully converted into a steel museum and park. I recommend clicking on "Fanfoto" to get an idea of what the place looks like. http://www.parquefundidora.org/en

Thank you for the welcomes! Yes, feel free to place the topic where you think it's most appropriate. I look forward to digging through the forum more thoroughly and learning more.

I saw this news story as well. What was the outcome of the meeting? I haven't heard much about the Chicago - NYC HSR story since. I think it'd be great for Ohio to leverage it's position as being the middle of Chicago, NYC, and DC. I've read that since the completion of the Wuhan - Guangzhou HSR in China, the big winner was Hunan province in the middle. Businesses located there were connected to the big cities at the ends of the line but didn't have to deal with the high cost of living and property prices. Similarly, Ohio may be able to court businesses that don't want to deal with high costs of operating out of NYC, DC, and Chicago *if* a speedy overland connection among the three exists.

Hello! I'm new to the board and this is my first post. I've been reading some of the topics here and this came to my mind: Do people prefer that Cleveland have two train stations - the planned North Coast Transportation Center/Lakefront Station for Amtrak and maybe HSR and Greyhound - and Tower City for Westshore, CVSR, and RTA, or is it better that they are all centralized under Tower City? In addition to which is preferred, which is more likely to happen? I personally prefer centralizing everything under Tower City/Casino Phase II. Why? The busy-ness of having all rails funneling into Tower City would keep it busy all the time. The lakefront station as is, is pretty much dead most of the time. Also, I think it's important for out-of-towners who choose to come to Cleveland via rail that they get the impression of Cleveland as being an active place where people are. I remember a snarky comment somewhere else on the internet asked that even if HSR connected the downtowns of Chicago, Detroit and Cleveland, "who would want to go to downtown Detroit or Cleveland?" :-( That being said, I think having new arrivals first being funneled into Tower City would provide a favorable first impression, a downtown that people want to be in. Maybe in a few years the lakefront will be a bustling place where everyone visits, but I think betting on that is a bit chancy. After all, we've had decades of talks of lakefront development that have been very slow in coming to fruition. Of course, having the NCTC would probably be good for the development of the lakefront in a transit-oriented development sense. I also liked the winning design of the architectural contest a few years back that designed the station as a terraced hillside to connect the Mall to the lake, so having the station there wouldn't be so bad. However, at this point, I don't think that Cleveland really has the density and traffic that requires two trains stations, one local and one long distance, a la New York's Grand Central/Penn Station. That being said, I get the sense that NCTC is more likely to happen than centralizing everything under Tower City, since the city went through the trouble of having an architectural design contest for such a station.