PaxtonMarley

180K for office space? Perhaps a homecoming for E&Y? Stranger things have happened around here.

https://www.crainscleveland.com/real-estate/millennia-retools-its-downtown-cleveland-centennial-proj Crain's link to article, reduction in number of affordable apartments but detailed various amenities and construction announced to start late 2023

I have to keep this in prospective. I flew into DCA yesterday, and there had to be more tower cranes at work in DC and Arlington than in the entire state of Ohio...but then those projects are mostly 8-11 stories in height.

I actually know the answer to this. You are correct; Welty is keeping all of the land to use for construction staging for the tower and garage.

Question, what's the lot west of the SHW tower slated to be? One of the renderings showed surface parking.

That's actually more to my point. This project doesn't know what it wants to be--a museum, maybe, hotel, perhaps, a marshmallow factory, sounds delicious but not likely. If Sinito can't really explain the project, who's financing it, or why it's been delayed for 5+ years, how can anyone get behind it? I am a huge CLE development backer, but I've clipped more Lakefront proposal articles or seen more Tower City renderings than I'd like to count.

Crains is reporting this as a $520m project. Any developer can build or upgrade 400 affordable apartments for less than a tenth of that cost, and residents will get far more amenities than at the Centennial. No offense to the goods folks at Millennia, but this project does not pencil out.

...when I saw the title, I thought to myself...hmm...a young architecture freelancer living on the Upper West Side, trying to justify the $3500-month rent. Yup, nailed it.

KJP - Can you elaborate on the reason for the protest?

"The beginning of the end for the Parking Lot District!!" Oh no, now we are starting to make it sound historic. Actually, 30 years is quite a long time.

At RTA's citizen meetings, the rail car purchase issue comes up every now and then. We got this high priced consultant that says we need light and heavy rail cars because of some HRT platforms cannot accommodate dual-level platform trains (Pittsburgh and St. Louis). Projects like Ken's Canal Basin station would be well suited for these rail cars, so folks from Shaker Hts can ride to these west side destinations.

But on a serious note, we should put the Brecksville R&D project in perspective. Of course, I prefer that SHW's R&D site be downtown and anchor what could have been an awesome riverfront destination. However, using the gray field left behind by the VA is a very acceptable second-best option. Also, considering that Valor Acres is planned as 24-hour mixed-use development, this project should get a warmer reception.

I hope not. I have too much difficulty picking colors at their regular stores. ?

...but if someone wants to get under SHW's skin about not building an "iconic" tower on Public Square--just mention how awesome rival PPG's HQ in Pittsburgh is.

This is great news, Good Job Ken.

Seems to be just the latest skirmish on Cleveland's perpetual dispute--build on Public Square or Flats/Riverfront. We''ve been debating this literally since Cleveland was founded.

With the Blue Line extension, is there any development on this? It seems to me that even though the area plan was approved, folks seem pretty happy with the existing configuration. Besides with only three bus lines (5, 14, and 41) using the Van Aken-Warrensville station, there doesn't seem to be a whole lot of demand for additional bus bay capacity. Now I suppose if the line were the minimum segment of a future line running down Northfield, then the 0.3-mile extension would make a lot more sense.

So Ken, I don't know if you addressed it, but are the AK Steel white collar jobs moving to Cleveland, or will CLF maintain two separate HQs?

Perhaps to add the Myles Garrett Institute for Anger Management? Sorry couldn't resist.

I'd like to believe there would be a revenue sharing agreement between CLE and the suburbs. But with this deal, there probably won't be much tax revenue to share...

I totally understand--and agree with--your perspective, but I don't think John was saying "woe is us." I think it's a fair point that historically speaking, Northeast Ohio experienced a "brain drain" and statistically lagged behind other metro areas in population and job growth. There are many reasons for that, but that's outside the topic of this thread. Turning back to the subject, while no one thinks a single Fortune 500 corporation's decision is going to make or break any major city, I am looking forward to what could be a major transformative project--not seen here since the early 90s when Gateway was developed.

Ken - I agree it was a solid piece, but two things worth mentioning. The PD loves to attach SHW's HQ with its ongoing lead paint controversy. Big companies get sued for because its products are sometimes unsafe. Keeping SHW in Cleveland or moving it to Atlanta or Mars won't absolve it from these allegations that SHW manufactured and marketed lead paint to developing countries. So unless Cleveland plans to bail SHW out of its lead paint liability, why is discussing this here particularly relevant again? Second point, the article points out that Downtown Cleveland hasn't had the best luck in retaining Fortune 500 businesses, sure, but the list of businesses aren't exactly a who's who of corporate America. Many of those businesses ended up acquired (Diamond Shamrock and Sohio) while others just went under completely (National City Bank or LTV). I can't see how any of that had to do with Cleveland itself.

I'm glad someone else feels the same way. If folks drive on 77 heading north into downtown, we've got three large towers on the left and a whole bunch of smaller one on the right. Anyways looked strange IMHO. As for height, I'm not paying for the SHW HQ, so my opinion's worth next to nothing. But skyscraper aficionados seem to make a big deal about towers at least 500 feet (about 150m) in height. And a fifth tower in that range would move CLE up a bit.

Ken - Excellent find. This pic was in a short-lived magazine--unimaginatively called Downtown Magazine. I don't know how many issues they had, but I also still have my copy of this one. But I agree with the commenters here. I couldn't imagine a million-odd square feet of upscale mall stores and department stores on Huron Avenue--especially with the retail apocalypse going on right now.

FYI... Jack Breen, former CEO of Sherwin Williams, dies at 85 https://www.cleveland.com/metro/2019/10/jack-breen-former-ceo-of-sherwin-williams-dies-at-85.html