cranston

www.daytontrolleys.net theres a map there. Active wire as shown on the map means the wire is charged and maintained, but over the next few years the trolleybus rolling stock fleet is shrinking due to age, so any route shown as active wire may be operated with diesels on any given day. New trolleybuses coming within the next 2-5 years, which should restore the full map with about 30-40 active units in the fleet. For the time being the consensus seems to be that any Federal infrastructure grant monies will be spent on modernizing and upgrading the trolleybus infrastructure, not streetcar or light rail. The 9800 series trolleys are at end of their 18 year life. As Slumcat says, the plan is to replace them with dual mode (can operate on wire, or 15+ miles off wire) trolleys. There is simply not enough ridership to get anywhere close to being able to support a streetcar even on the heaviest of the RTA lines (7 or 8, which on occasional trips have standing passengers), especially with the price to park in downtown about $3 a day, and plenty of on-street parking available on all streets all day long. There are plenty of bike lanes, and more coming.

And he is off to the right in this photo. http://www.trolleybuses.net/day/htm/usa_h_day_mh_520_wyomingjaywb_ag.htm

I'm not thinking it's a Meijer question; there are several Krogers and Meijers within the county all of which are closer or on par to downtown than all the way out Airway. A one-seat ride? I agree that's certainly a boon to those on Rt 1, but changing routes downtown in the WSP is more convenient than on the street. The point is, running on Airway outside the county has brought us onto a slippery slope. OK, let's do that simple loop on Pentagon to serve the *three* hotels there ... now what about all those people who want to go to Target down North Fairfield? It's just a *little* further. And I agree with you that it's right to consider the question as a taxpayer *and* a rider. Perhaps the other taxpayers and riders in Montgomery County ought to have their voices heard as well.

I was annoyed as a taxpayer when the Wright State connector bus stopped running to Murray Loop, and Rt 13 came into being. But it wasn't too bad in 1986 (?) -- there wasn't a whole lot out Airway in Greene County except WSU. And I comprehend the idea that a line to WSU is a convenience for Montgomery County residents in order to access WSU. As such, Rt 1 should run express to WSU within Greene County, or people who want to get on or get off anywhere other than WSU should contribute to their eroding of the tax base and pay a surcharge. It is utter lunacy that Montgomery County taxpayers (in response to whomever is driving this) would choose to subsidize anyone to shop and do business in Greene County. What businesses are out there which are *not* available in Montgomery County?

More troubling to me is that as a Montgomery County taxpayer, that extra 0.5% sales tax the 500000 people in Montgomery County pay to run the RTA will now be subsidizing travel outside the county to spend money.

I worked with a guy who rides 15 miles to and from work every day, unless it's sleeting or snowing. So, he shamed me into riding to work (10 miles) a couple times. The trick for me was to take side streets and avoid as much traffic as possible. I could do it (45ish minutes), save approx a mile on a busy street. That bit is pretty hair raising for me, and it's a big reason why I don't ride more often. To drive to work takes 20 minutes. I can rationalize riding as a time saver, as I go to the gym most every day anyway. Looks like approx 6ish miles for you to get to the bike path in West Carrollton, and other than getting across 675 and a bit on Alex-Bell to get across 75 (a quick Google map street view look says there's sidewalks there), you could do that whole run on side streets. At that point, you're six miles from downtown, with a flat run and no streets to cross. I think you could probably get downtown faster via bike than the hour it takes on the 17 from South Hub. And you save $2 each way. The better question is whether you have a shower at work.

With respect to the finance of transit operations, I believe the single greatest cost is not the fuel, but that person sitting at the wheel driving the vehicle. This cost (burdened with salary and benefits) dwarfs the fuel costs. The San Francisco argument to have trolleys is the hills. Trolleybuses have the ability to get up and go up a large grade, where diesel buses struggle. But diesel bus performance has improved over the years, and you can gear diesels to get up the hills. But the diesels don't do this nearly as well as the trolleys. Dayton does have quite a bit of infrastructure in the sky. The RTA's 1986 plan was to make use of dual mode diesel electric buses, and they even brought one to Dayton to show it off back then. However, this plan was about 25 years too early -- a good idea, but not supported by the state of technology. Times change. Today, you find hybrids on the street (like Dayton's Gilligs), and underneath, it's a smaller diesel engine driving a generator which makes 600V DC power. Conveniently, 600V DC is what hangs in the air above the major streets in Dayton. I am given to understand that the hope for the next buy of trolleybuses to replace the current ones is to get a next generation trolleybus with significant diesel off wire capability (Philadelphia's trolleybuses from 2007 have diesel engines for off wire ops), or if you prefer, a diesel-electric hybrid with trolley poles in order to use the existing infrastructure.

@Slumcat: Is that a recent (last two weeks?) photo of 9834? The RTA's analysis (on daytontrolleys.net) in actually a "green" argument. As in Benjamins. They prefer trolley for the $6M of fixed guideway 5309 federal funding the existence of trolleys brings in every year. Without that funding, the RTA would have to reduce service. C'ya Tom

Indeed, Dayton's trolleys are up and running on the combined 3/4 again. More info and recent pictures here: http://www.daytontrolleys.net C'ya Tom