CincyGuy45202

Ya, there's a big difference between "not supporting the streetcar" and supporting COAST. And Octo mentioned PG's base being Westside. I saw a breakdown that showed he was the top vote getter in Westwood and top 3 in price hill. Crazy! But either way- at this point they would be flip floppers.

And non-profits can absolutely profit as much as they want, and often do. the difference, is that they can't pay out their profits as bonuses or to shareholders via dividends. They, by law, must return their profits to the company through reinvestment, etc. They are still companies with motives, but the motives are usually a bit more altruistic. But in the case of the garage, yes, they want everyone possible to fill that garage.

This keeps needing to be explained: They aren't a for-profit company. They do not have any goal other than to continue to redevelop the city center. That's not to say every single thing they do is the best thing, they just don't profit from it. 3CDC could cure cancer. Or they could have your mother assassinated. Either way, it wouldn't be to line their own pockets. They are a non-profit. Non-profits don't just get to right off losses forever and everyone holds hands and skips around smiling. The debt they hold because of many of these projects is quite large. The Cincinnati Equity Fund isn't just a pool they get to take from forever. They have to pay it back. They have very specific dollar amounts per month the garage MUST meet or they default on their loans. And unlike Fountain Square which charges $210 per month for monthly parkers and $5 on evenings, Washington Park is not in the middle of a vibrant downtown surrounded by office workers who can pay that huge monthly rate. $85 a month is the highest they think they can charge. It's not very high when you compare it to the debt they took on for that garage. And $3 for evenings... also cheap because most people in OTR don't use garages- they just find some surface parking and walk to vine. Trust me, they will do anything to ensure as many people as possible park in that lot at all times so that they can cover their debt service. Again: A non-profit still has to cover its costs. And this garage was a huge cost.

^ I agree- And in March I was told by a friend close to the project to "think of the CAC turned into an office tower"

But I want it NOWWWW. haha

New tower- Looks like big brother of older tower.

^ maybe true, but I'm very disappointed they are going to Loveland instead of Hyde Park, Downtown, etc. At the same time, you won't hear many people complain. the restaurant scene in the City is amazing and only getting better. Farewell Daveeds! Hello Mantra and many others!

Just spent 15 minutes going through Gensler renderings and buildings. Here are my two favorites for 5th & Race:

The idea that suburbanites cost more than they put into the system is a great discussion. (everything I'm about to say begins in about 1965. In the first 10-15 years of a suburb its usually a net gain for the community. The next 10-15 years the gain begins to plateau, costs start to arise and the average suburbanite has been conditioned to feel that they shouldn't pay these costs. By the end of this phase some of the first people to arrive to this new suburban development have already moved on to the next new development. The next 10-15 years start a slight decline. With no one funding services you start to see struggles arising. Often these weak, anemic governments, purposefully designed to have little power, can't cope with revenue losses. The next 10-15 end the attractiveness of that particular community. What I just described is what has happened with the "inner burbs" around greater Cincinnati (also known as the outerburbs of Hamilton County. Places like Blue Ash & Sharonville posted their first population declines or barely grew by a few hundred residents in the 2010 census. Of all the Hamilton County outer burbs, they happen to be in the best shape though, but many of the smaller communities around them are now greatly struggling. Butler & Warren County communities are in the first or second phase of the cycle. It's also likely, that as the economy changes dramatically and gas prices continue to rise the cycles will move more quickly. Rather than 30 years from now, it could be 10 when people are leaving West Chester & Mason for some more extreme exurb. In fact, it's already beginning. At this point however, you're seeing the children of the burbs, now reaching their prime purchasing power ages, growing disillusioned with the constant outward movement this form of development requires and the extremely heavy reliance on automobiles these suburbanites design for. You're seeing the beginning of a donut of growth. Younger people filling and growing the dead center of the region, while their parents keep moving further out. For now, the inner regional burbs are losing population while the urban core and exurbs are growing. It will be interesting to see what's happening 15 years from now. Back to topic... removing these requirements is good. It doesn't mean less parking. It means more efficiently designed parking. Efficiency is sort of the whole key to this urban renewal. It's a more efficient form of life in many ways.

^ I don't think they'll change by much!! I've heard from some reliable sources that construction is supposed to start by Fall.

No one in their right mind is saying that we DON'T want suburbanites in the urban core. Of Course we do! But we're saying that if someone, like the fictional people you described, is going to complain that "it's WAY too hard to ever go to a reds game because there are only 40 different parking options and they all have a nominal price of $7-$15 which is way too much money and ugh I have to walk 1.5 blocks!! sheesh!!!".... Then that person should just stop coming down here. The majority of people might go, ehh i wish i didn't have to pay, or I wish it was a little cheaper to park, but whatever. Those people we should be attracting even more. Also, of course, we need to be attracting more people to live down here, not just visit, but that's besides the point.

^ Hmmmm. Very interesting. Washington park renovation has already removed about 20-30 on street parkings spots. This removes just under two dozen. conversion of 13th to two way removed about 6. In total about 50-60 on street spaces have been removed. In all honesty, I think 3CDC wishes ALL on street spots would be removed so they would fill their lots with monthly parkers.

How is parking a hassle at reds games!?!?! How is it anymore of a hassle than at the most suburban ball parks where people sit in massive parking lots for 15-20 minutes after the game just to get onto a street and then sit in traffic (been there myself!) There are about 50 lots/garages in short walking distance and the vast majority are $8-10. As opposed to 2-3 massive surface lots like some of the suburban ball parks, you can get into any number of garages and be out in no time. And no one expects massive truck loading type businesses to be downtown. No one. Ever. Period. that is why there are neighborhoods like Camp Washington, Queensgate, etc. I can't think of any business that has major truck loading that would be expected to be in a high rise or mid rise downtown. Maybe a grocery store, but if they can load trucks (like once a week) in OTR on Vine, they can load trucks on the 5 lane wide streets downtown. You're making up a complaint along the lines of: I want to open an Ikea downtown but there's not enough room for a 400,000 square foot single floor building with several hundred outdoor parking spaces! No one is saying that because common sense says that kind of development doesn't go downtown. And regarding main street, Sycamore is rarely full, and there are lots on Sycamore & 12th that are rarely full. That is one block from Main. not 10-12 blocks. 1 block. Also, as it becomes more difficult to park, more people will take cabs. Mt Adams has tons of Cabs. OTR, not so much. That will start to change as more places open and parking becomes more restrictive. Also-- We just opened a 450 space garage under wash park & are about to start construction on a 370 space garage on Vine. I doubt those are the last two 3CDC will be building.

So! Back to the park... I saw the fountains were running a couple days ago. Looked good! Really wish they would hurry up and open the park!! I think the Official opening of the steps isn't for 3 more weeks!

Daveed's is leaving Mt Adams for the Suburbs. Disappointing.

ya- Well today there are even more market rate places on main. Prospect hill is still there, now there's stuff on Vine, Race, Clay, Pleasant, Republic, 12th, 13th, 14th and soon 15th. That residential investment is way more important than the night life investment for long term strength of a community.

2014 is fine. Streetcar won't be starting operations until late 2014/early 2015 anyway. Either way- It won't take that long and the company (based in California apparently) will settle.

Horstman is such an A-hole, he couldn't bring himself to write a wholely positive article and had to slip in this little dig! John Schneider- I've heard you say Barry is a stand up guy- But I will never believe it. He is pathetic. Unless one literally knows she was a prostitute (which by the way, that is a horrible corner for a prostitute since there is NO traffic) she was probably some poor homeless lady with mental illness. Way to stereo type Barry!

In the State of the City the mayor said hotel attendance was a record high in 2011. That's really great news across the board. While Obviously 21C will be unique and pricier, it's good to see the overall hotel market doing well. The most recent news I've heard is that the 21C will open "between Halloween & Thanksgiving". This would be a 2-3 week delay from their original opening target (october 2012) that they set well before construction had started. Not a big deal.

I think you just admitted wrapping streetcars doesn't equal less ridership/worse service. The above streetcar is entirely wrapped showing a major advertisement and yet the windows aren't covered. Everyone wins. I don't think anyone who said "wrap a streetcar" said it had to cover the windows. Clearly City University is paying for that ad. That is ad revenue. The idea that it's only a wrapped Streetcar if it blocks the windows is a bit strange... Yes, the #1 bus does that, and actually dozens of the Toronto Streetcars do (I think people still use them even though they're wrapped) but that doesn't mean that's the ONLY way to make revenue by wrapping a streetcar. The photo above shows how a streetcar can be wrapped, gaining a decent amount of revenue, and yet people can still see.

Something tells me the riders of this Seattle Streetcar didn't freak out because they felt unsafe: EDIT: I don't know how to make this a reasonable size-- if a mod or admin can help feel free to shrink it to something more normal!

It's all about the authors. As soon as i read the first two paragraphs i guessed that it would be a Baverman article. It was. Also, Enquirer Publisher Margaret Buchanan is on the Board of 3CDC. If Hortsman would have written it, it would have been another over the top hit piece about how ONLY 150 units have been rehabbed/built in over 6 YEARS of development and there are STILL, after $200+ million dollars of investment, nearly 400 vacant buildings! And how he walked around all of OTR in only 6 minutes at 14 mph.

Citation? Not that I don't believe you, but a citation would be nice. I don't think anyone has said the ads need to promote non-car urbanism. You seem to not understand the basic concept of advertising. Advertising is directed at a specific audience, often known as a target market. When Low income riders are the majority of bus riders, the majority of ads will be targeted at them. That in NO WAY implies that when a streetcar is built that is used primarily by downtown workers or newer downtown residents Metro will be forced (or advertisers would chose to) put ads up that are targeted at a market that does not ride the Streetcar. The ads will appropriately be targeted at the people who ride the streetcar.

But are you sure that it is really ADDITIONAL revenue, and not offset by slightly lower ridership? Really? Are you people seriously suggesting this? This is now, again, one of the most ridiculous arguments- almost bad as the Bikes vs streetcar tracks fiasco we had a few weeks ago (outcome: bike riders will learn how to appropriately cross streetcar tracks. problem solved!). NO ONE is going to go... "OH NO!!! That streetcar is WRAPPED. I'm going to not ride it" (after standing at a station and waiting for one to show up for 5-7 minutes). 8th and state-- When was the last time you walked through an airport that had 0 ads. Seriously.. Airports have billboards inside them for crying out loud. Hell- Airplanes have almost 0 visibility (tiny little windows). People aren't freaking out about flying on airplanes. And I'm sorry- but with all due respect, the point of the streetcar is NOT to expose people to architecture. That is the point of the CincyHaus Brewery tours or just walking around. The point of the streetcar is to, A: create a fixed investment in transportation that leads to further investments in infrastructure & development along the line, and B: transport people to stops along the route. Tourism is a byproduct of the streetcar and is really more related to the development that occurs along the streetcar route- not by the view (or slightly darkened view in a wrapped streetcar). These mystical people who will choose not to ride a streetcar because one of them is wrapped probably aren't going to ride the streetcar anyway. If they will make an excuse to not ride it such as, "it's wrapped so I won't ride it" they will probably make another excuse like, "it's too cold out" or "I'll just drive and pay for parking". Let's get real people.

For full context, the City owns the water lines, the County & City joint own the Sewer while the City manages it, and of course, Duke owns basically all electric and gas.