eurokie

I have always been intrigued with OKC and Oklahoma in general. I think generally the state gets too much of a bad reputation and most of it is not warranted, but some of it is. OKC and Tulsa have a great collection of art deco (more so Tulsa), there are beautiful green and heavily wooded areas in the eastern part of the state; it's not all brown flat plains as far as the eye can see. When it comes to Columbus, they have architecture OKC could only dream of. Not to mention Columbus' infill has been far more attractive IMO versus what I have seen on my two visits to OKC. The vibrancy in the neighborhoods is a stark contrast as well, with Columbus offering much more. I think OKC is just underwhelming for the size of the city and metro. Devon Tower is a very nice addition to a somewhat uninspiring skyline, but it sticks out too much. With that, hopefully the growth in Oklahoma City leads to much more investment in its urban fabric because it's far behind most of its peers. I recently lost a lot of pics that I think would be helpful here, but if you haven't been back in the last 2 years, it's a totally different Central OKC. Comparatively, the 4 SQ MI downtown Columbus is geographically a lot larger than any of us realize (comparing to peer cities helps put this in perspective) but our beloved Cbus is mostly parking lots. It will take "Neighborhood Launch" projects for the next 20 years to fill in the sheer volume of parking we have. I also think our Scioto Riverfront is incredibly generic and bland and the Arena District, like its brand, is also bland. That said, Columbus is a Victorian city, and I can respect that all new infill has to fit that style. We are blessed with a ton of solid Queen Anne, Second Empire, and Italianates. OKC doesn't have any of that. Their historic neighborhoods date back to the 1920s. OKC has a very unique urban aesthetic. A lot of old oil money Revivals, shotgun housing, bungalows, plantation-style homes, and more mission-style stuff than you'd expect. In watching OKC evolve and preserve some, tear down the rest, the best way I can summarize OKC's urban aesthetic is Route 66 urbanism. Flashy always wins. A lot of urban strip districts. Neon signage is very important down there. The city has a fund where, if you're on an old Rt 66 corridor, there is 50/50 matching funding available for a new neon blade sign (but with LED lights of course). Downtown preservation is dead. There is not even any point in saying a damn thing about saving the downtown core, because the market pressures are just too strong right now, and there are no checks on developers. There is a mentality that if a project isn't great, it will just get torn down soon anyway. The city actually has plans to rip out this awful new boulevard that the state is building, because coming up with another $30 million is easier than challenging the state. There was a cheap stucco townhouse project near the medical district NE of downtown, reviled by all (only thing worse than gentrification is cheap lame gentrification lol) - nobody ever moved in because another developer bought it right before CofO's were issued and tore it down for an apartment building. This happens all over Texas. Some of our more notable losses that still keep me up at night: Stage Center This whole block, the last remnant of the Main Street core: The old Greyhound, which will at least be memorialized (or held captive) in this parking garage elevator stack: SandRidge Energy tore down 7 buildings, but there 2 were the only historic ones: I used to love this little building that was all alone left on a block that now has a big mixed-use proposal: We just lost the Midwest's first Film Exchange last month: We are about to lose the old Villa Theresa nunnery in Midtown: I hope we've successfully fended off developers from the Gold Dome, which is one of our awesome Route 66 landmarks in Uptown: That's all really recent. I used to maintain a "war list" of all the landmarks we've lost for anytime someone tried talking me off the ledge, but I've given that up. It's too depressing. This is the three-way tie we often debate (which is worse?) back home. The Criterion represents the greatest of 6 theaters we lost on Broadway. Spires from the Baum Building still pop up in forgotten city parks everywhere. The Biltmore Hotel wasn't supposed to be demo'd, but it just made a lot of sense as the city worked a deal in the 70s for surrounding properties. Just gut-wrenching stories. That said, while downtown has been a total loss for preservation, the market strength radiating outward has completely turned around all the historic neighborhoods north of I-40. The south side, where I'm from, has gang problems and will never gentrify, but the north side has become nearly 100% gentrified. Long-term stable strips like the Plaza, the Paseo, Midtown, have been merging into each other with infill, and we've seen the emergence of new strips that nobody ever noticed before. I'm now going to do a little mis-direction, because it's the only way us locals refuse to let downtown OKC get us down. The Paseo is a really cool little neighborhood. Developed by JC Nichols, who built KC's Plaza. By far the state's largest arts district. Somehow the Plaza District came out of nowhere to hog up all of the local artisan retailers: Uptown 23rd Street is the new hot district. Really cool mix of art deco and mid-century. The Tower Theater alone has languished for 50 years through countless failed restoration attempts, which has now finally happened. Western Avenue in Crown Heights is really nice too. It was the first revitalized strip, that faded as others emerged, so the city just did a huge streetscape here that has resulted in lots of new infill: So it's not all bad. There's also some incredible stuff happening in OKC. Not only is architecture a lot bolder down there, but people seem to dream bigger. The sky feels a lot bigger and more expansive when you're down there than in Columbus, and it's just a different feeling I still can't put my finger on. I promise I'm not naive enough to impress you with a project dump (every big city has a TON going on right now), but here's just an examples of the really unique local design flavor: So sorry for the long post in response, but I think OKC is the most fascinating case study in the nation. It's a city that's started over so many times that it doesn't blink an eye at large-scale destruction, whether it was caused by us or not. I read that downtown has 4,000 housing units in various phases of development, after the last 10 years just netted 5,000. All of this growth will be a huge opportunity to fix a lot of mistakes and make some new mistakes. Always three steps forward, one leap backward. The one positive nobody can take away from OKC is that it's unique and you'll piss a lot of locals off by calling it "the next Austin" or "the next Denver" etc. By the way my favorite is Dust Bowl / Fassler Hall.. which is actually an incredibly sophisticated design: This project is basically parodying late mid-century Oklahoma when things started to go downhill. The exterior intentionally mirrors an Oklahoma Dept of Transportation overpass design, and the yellow metal cladding is supposed to evoke road signs. The architect told me for carpet he just googled "ugly ass carpet. It goes without saying that the retro chairs, huge bulb lights, and wood-vinyl wainscoting was intentional. Despite all that, it's packed as the place to be right now (like The Walrus) with a bowling alley on bottom and German biergarten above. One of the coolest design-build entertainment concepts I've seen in a while. I think for an Ohio audience, the lesson is two-fold: Don't dig yourself too big of a hole to fill (ahem Cleveland), but don't be afraid to be unique and crazy (ahem Columbus).

RIP Rob Ford :angel:

The Cleveland State Line on Clifton Blvd. Very nice little street paving job they did there.

I think its ridership has already been rising, based on my observations. I wish RTA actually tracked ridership numbers for the line though, because we really have no way of knowing what the exact figures are. Right. I mean there is no denying that in the past it has been the "ghost train" that Naymik so badly wants it to be... like back when RTA actually stopped running it. Didn't RTA wait until the EY Tower was finished to start running it regularly?

Thanks iNK. Jeremy - go w/ friends during the summer when they have the back patio open. :)

I understand the uprising against the Waterfront Line, but it's worth pointing out that its ridership will rise as the waterfront has finally been developed.

18th and Oak. That's the Old Town Tavern, where I highly recommend the pizza. :) I actually like theirs better than across the street (Yellow Brick), which is pretty good as well. I apologize for the cheesy photo filters and frames (that I stopped doing several months ago), as well as for not labeling. I assumed these were almost all well-known places on Urban Ohio.

Countless people have tried prying this building from the City of Lakewood's hands.

Wow that one on W 85th would make a beautiful home...

I agree that Michigan Avenue to Mexicantown makes a ton of sense. It won't happen unless FTA wants it to happen. Detroit has completely exhausted its capacity on the M-1 Rail. The back story is they originally applied for funding to do the entire Woodward Corridor, including up into Oakland, and were rejected due to low ridership and low growth potential blah blah blah (think Euclid Avenue all over again). Instead of capitulating to BRT, they got foundations to contribute most of the funding to make the first leg happen. The next leg is going to require more public funding because the foundations can't keep doing that. The city has zero dollars in the project, but that's not really surprising. They actually changed federal law so that non-profit contributions could count toward the local match. The State of Michigan and suburban counties are going to have to pony up local matches from now on.

It for sure still has a ways to go, but there have been several YUUUGE mixed-use developments to just open (300+ acts, plus street retail) that I haven't yet seen. Projects like The Metropolitan: "The Residences at 21c" that just broke ground surrounding the 21c on 3 sides: The Steel Yard in Bricktown: New office "tower" in Bricktown: The Edge at Midtown: LIFT at Shartel Circle: Maywood Apartments in Deep Deuce: And further out from breaking ground (probably 2 years out, but they have already broken ground on the green spaces) is this project on the south riverfront: So even though all of these are on the streetcar route, the trick is going to be weaving these big projects together with the existing fabric and all of the smaller development projects. Locals aren't even allowed to see some angles of this stuff going up because they just close entire streets in downtown (imagine Vine Street or Gay Street just completely closed for two years at a time). That's why I say despite how well I know OKC, I am still intrigued when I ponder what type of city it is about to become. Who the hell knows? It could be great if they weave all of this into a fabric. Or it could be like a huge Scottsdale.

I was back in my old stomping grounds last week. The progress in Duck Island is amazing, and all of those new homes between Abbey and Lorain are really well-done.

I love that The Lincoln carefully rendered some of the potholes on Scranton. Really adds to the ambiance there. He's obviously bothering that woman. They're usually from a website called Skalgabbar. In case she piqued your interest.

Thanks ColDayMan. David - Sorry if you disagree, feel free to be less cryptic though.

A few snapshots of OKC's rapid redevelopment. Yes, OKC used to suck. No, it no longer does - but it is still hard to tell what it is going to become. The entire city has been a construction detour for the last ten years. OKC has grown 50% since 1990. All photos taken on iPhone 5c, either from instagram (eurokie[/member]) or my blog. Flying in Infill in Deep Deuce The lights in Automobile Alley Lights in Automobile Alley Used to be a parking garage. Redevelopment in Midtown. Infill in Deep Deuce Infill in Deep Deuce Myriad Gardens in downtown Streetscape in front of Devon Tower Devon Tower landscaping absorbing the Colcord Hotel, the city's first "high-rise" Old school Capitol Hill Rt 66-style neon signage in the Plaza District The Skydance Bridge's LED light show is nearly impossible to catch on an iPhone camera Absolutely impossible Plaza District in NW OKC Historic preservation in Midtown Midtown's heart The Womb Gallery, owned by the Flaming Lips, in Automobile Alley 2nd Street in Deep Deuce, used to be urban prairie 4 years ago Looking above Bricktown toward Downtown's skyline More Rt 66-style neon signage in the Plaza District Summer nights on the patios of the Plaza District MLK Jr was once turned down for a job, for being too young, at Calgary Baptist Church in Deep Deuce Neon blade signs in Automobile Alley Pocket park in Deep Deuce Downtown core Original HQ of the local newspaper Bikeshare, check; downtown grocery store, check Unfortunately there are a dozen new high-rise parking garages Framing the sunset The state's most legendary steakhouse, in Stockyards City Retro rehabs in Classen-Ten-Penn Grit and glam NW 16th in the Plaza District Skyline view through a clearing in Midtown's urban fabric (a scar that still remains from the Murrah Bldg) Retail storefronts in the Plaza District North Broadway lights in Automobile Alley Super-wide Classen Blvd in Uptown - planned streetcar extension Fassler Hall (biergarten) and Dust Bowl Lanes (bowling alley) in Midtown Old Ford Model T Factory being rehabbed into 21c Hotel in Film Row Farmer's Market SW of downtown New 450-ft tall BOK Park Plaza under construction, where the last remnants of OKC's historic Main Street once stood A most depressing "then and now" Nobody can ever get enough of The Womb Or the lights on Broadway in Automobile Alley Or the sunset reflecting through the CBD's core

Columbus - No longer the sleepy white collar state capital that happens to have a big state university. Not yet a creative, innovative metropolis. Something in between. Constantly changing, occasionally evolving. Pics are on my instagram (eurokie[/member]) or blog site (greenlakebluecity.com), all taken with iPhone 5c, and span 2015-2016. For all our struggles to move forward on transit, the single biggest thing holding this city back, Columbus does at least have seasons like nobody else.

So the developers owned the utilities and streetcars through the same trusts that sold newly developed homes? Are there any notable examples of this outside of the Van Sweringens? Not questioning you, but my interest is definitely piqued.

I don't in any way consider Crocker Park successful or a model Greater Cleveland should follow. Yes, it's better designed than the typical cul de sac + strip shopping. But CP was carved out of cornfields at the edge of metro area and is auto dependent/transit unfriendly. It's about the furthest thing from TOD one could imagine... I get KJP's proposal, however, to use CP-type housing at the Warrensville-Shaker Rapid station. It makes sense because there is plenty of vacant land around the Rapid station from where the Van Sweringens had planned a depressed super highway (out to their planned Shaker Country Estates) 90 years ago. KJP's plan is both TOD and and within the suburban context of a wealthy neighborhood not far from a substantial residential university with it's on small retail/services district. In the recent past we've gotten it bass-ackwards here in Greater Cleveland building strip and/or big box development along the RAIL Rapid Transit like Chagrin-Lee-Avalon and the W. 117 big boxes and high-density developments like CP away from population centers and transit. Recent developments like Uptown, Van Aken and Intesa/Centric, though, give me hope that the tide it turning. I liked KJP's plan a lot. Wealthy people aren't going to stop existing, nor are they going to stop wanting lavish abodes. Let's entice those abodes along the rails, and not out in West Geauga or Hudson. I think we all agree that Crocker Park is fine except for its location. So I wouldn't hold its location against it as a model for higher-end development in a better location. :P

There has been little tolerance for agitators that want rail here, rail now. I think Ohio City Inc might be one of the few bastions of professionals who are willing to go out on a limb in advocating for rail. I think for the silent majority of us that want rail, we need to be more supportive of each other, esp for lack of opportunities to support GCRTA. We need to get to a point where it's not a professional liability to be a yuuuuuge rail supporter.

I can attest that Ann Arbor's surrounding freeways are a disaster. It never occurred to me that there might be traffic in Michigan until I sat on that stretch of 23 for an hour. Not to mention that all of their freeways up there are yuuuuuge. I thought linking two separate campuses reminded me of Morgantown's rubber-tire People Mover. It's really amazing how rail is taking over in Michigan. The Wolverine has been a success, right? I have seen some chatter about a new Amtrak line that would basically extend the Wolverine past Pontiac (where it now ends?) up to the top of the mitten. M1 is mostly in the ground - I was up there last weekend and it looks like a few intersections downtown and one side of the road in Midtown are all that's left, and they've visibly let out every section with work well underway. Kansas City is opening up in April or May from what I heard. Cincy and Detroit will be opening within months of that, I believe. Amazing that Ann Arbor doesn't even seem to blink with a streetcar that is 7 times as expensive as the new lines in Detroit and Cincy. So uh yeah, looking at you Columbus...

That's hilarious, even Ann Arbor acts like a bigger city than Columbus. I bet that actually does motivate us to act.

Well this is a very good argument, but is 90% of Cuyahoga's pop loss in this area? I wouldn't be surprised if it's the worst, but I also know a lot of it was stable until recently. Everything between the lake and Mayfield has really changed, but it's not unique in that regard. I think another area that has especially fallen is the W. 25th corridor, even as 5 blocks of it have become the hottest neighborhood in town. I think we have to triage in some places and build partnerships in others. If we don't triage the northeast side, which I know we'd all hate to see, then we need to build partnerships. My main point was just that I really want to see Lake County step up to the plate here, because if they don't stop the bomb going off on the northeast side, pretty soon (30 years of destabilization) all of Lake County will look like a bad mix of Euclid and Painesville (even Willoughby).

For sure. This Red Line extension is iffy if poverty in one area is too high to support new development, yet once poverty goes down so does the ridership and development potential. As for Euclid, I think it's just on the wrong side of I-90 to be a dynamic corridor, and won't really help Euclid much. The only beneficiary that gets enough benefit for it to be worthwhile is Lake County, which I'm not against, but doesn't seem to be involved. This is the exact conundrum that tells me there are better rail projects out there. W. 25th from Lakeview to Brooklyn for instance would be a slam dunk. If RTA was willing to look at PPP financing for these projects, maybe the priority for new transit corridors should actually be economic development. Right now by trailing development, and not trying to shape it, the tail is sort of wagging the dog. Like when Eaton moved from a transit-accessible HQ to a new one that isn't, requiring RTA to then take service away from somewhere to move a nearby bus route to accommodate Eaton. I guess I'm just saying I don't see this Red Line extension being what Cleveland needs.

Definitely one of them, and could be better if they flipped it allowing the podium structure to honor the Mall's cornice line. I give you Ft. Worth (perhaps the standard bearer):

I don't disagree. I specifically said that wasn't my stance - I'm just advocating for some nuance and subtlety about it, and not cheers for just the concept of private individuals tearing something down so the city doesn't have to.