Urbanophile

You're probably right, but there is actually a surprising (albeit small) possibility that it could happen. There's a lot of insight from the user "I love pizza" on this thread: http://www.urbanohio.com/forum2/index.php/topic,29423.0.html I know you're aware of that since you posted on that thread a few times, but I'd like others to see it too. I think if the NuCLEus project is successful, it could only help the Ferrari project.

Oooh now that's interesting. What are the odds that the skywalk is actually being removed vs. that being an aesthetic choice for the rendering?

^ LOL. I know people in renderings are often semi-transparent but that woman looks genuinely creepy.

^ That's just my guess since KJP seemed to imply that the products there would be different from the convenience store next door.

^^ I'm guessing it's a halal convenience store?

Oldmanladyluck said "exterior work beginning" and showed some pics with a little bit of precast concrete exterior material. Does no one else see that? Am I taking crazy pills? I think I'm just not a fan of concrete in general as an exterior material, but I'm withholding judgments until it's completed.

The exterior material looks a little cheap. Does it look any better in-person?

^ Yeah I wasn't much of a fan of the place myself, but I did meet a couple really cool people at Bounce so I can't say it was all bad. The tiny dance floor was definitely an issue though, and cover charges were way too high and started too early. The article says that Bounce is closing because of a growing acceptance of LGBT people, but I really think Bounce is just closing because it wasn't that great of a club. There will be a continued demand for a gay nightclub that does drag shows, so hopefully this means we'll be getting a better club than Bounce in the future.

^ Yes, and recently renovated. But Twist is hardly a night club, and certainly doesn't have the space for a proper dance floor/stage for shows. If no one buys Bounce, I'm hoping someone else will step up and open a new club that does a better job appealing to the whole community (I hardly ever saw any lesbians at Bounce). I think the Euclid/Healthline corridor would be a great place for such a club, because then CSU and Case/CIA/CIM students could easily get to it. Currently, there are no good gay bars/clubs near any of the major universities in Cleveland, and that could be a problem.

Cleveland gay and drag scenes lament closing of iconic gay club Bounce CLEVELAND, Ohio -- The mainstreaming of gay culture has desegregated the nightlife, blurring the lines between a "gay" and "straight" club. That's not to say there isn't a downside, as fans of Bounce discovered. The iconic gay club – 2814 Detroit Ave., Cleveland – will close after a 13-year run. The last night is slated for Sunday, Jan. 4. http://www.cleveland.com/entertainment/index.ssf/2014/12/cleveland_gay_and_drag_scenes.html#incart_river Wasn't sure where else to post this. A city the size of Cleveland should be able to maintain at least one gay club. I'm not even a big fan of Bounce, but it would be a pretty big hit to the community to see this close. Bounce probably just needs better management... hopefully someone buys it instead of allowing it to close.

Of course I would prefer an IKEA in the city, but Brooklyn really isn't a bad location. Brooklyn is closer to Cleveland's downtown than Pittsburgh's IKEA is to its downtown. I hope this happens, and soon.

^^ I wonder if people said the same thing when Terminal Tower was built ;)

I was reeeaally hoping for the Zion Church in Tremont to be selected for tax credits. I know the people who proposed the project there, and it's a really cool and unique concept. Oh well, hopefully next round. The Wagner Awning building renovation could be a huge boost for Scranton Rd. Hopefully this will lead to some new developments on the empty lots across the street.

^ Check my edit. I'm not saying the Music Hall doesn't deserve it. The Music Hall absolutely deserves the credits... just not this round, in my opinion. I clearly stated the reasons why, which I'd say are pretty reasonable. Anyway, I'd say we both made ourselves pretty clear so we probably shouldn't take this off-topic anymore.

^ What I heard is that the Music Hall will be closed for renovations from Summer 2016 to Fall 2017. If that's the case, then it seems like the tax credits could have waited until 2016. The renovations would happen a bit later, but at least the May Co. building would be completely done by that time. I am not a spoiled child whining that I didn't get a Christmas gift. I am listing legitimate reasons why May Co. would have been a much, much better choice for this round of catalytic tax credits. Am I allowed to discuss my opinions on historic preservation and development without being insulted, or am I just supposed to accept anything that happens without saying a word? But yeah, let's not take this any more off topic. I'm not happy with the choice mostly because I think it means we won't see any "catalytic"development for at least the next couple years. The Music Hall is great and definitely deserved the money. Just not this round, in my opinion.

^^ I said I didn't know all the details about the state of the Music Hall. Then you told me, so now I know. I'm talking in terms of money, that the Music Hall project will not be catalytic, at least compared to May Co. I never said vacant was a requirement, but it sure should be a large part of the consideration. I'm just saying that, since the Music Hall probably won't see any serious renovations for a couple years considering how much money they still have to raise, the funds should have gone to May Co. building, which would've been ready for immediate construction. That way, by 2016 we would have a newly renovated May Co. building with a huge impact on that part of downtown, and the Music Hall could get the catalytic credits in 2016 and still move forward at about the same pace that they will be moving forward now.

The Music Hall is a lovely building that deserves to get a nice renovation. But it's incredibly clear that it did not deserve to win the catalytic tax credits over the May Co. building. 1) It is currently being used. The May Co. building is essentially vacant and in noticeably terrible shape. There will be no "catalytic" results from giving the Music Halls the credits. On the other hand, the May Co. renovation would lead to an immediate multi-million dollar impact in the surrounding region. 2) The May Co. people actually have solid plans and drawings for their project, and 3) It is unlikely that we will see any movement on the Music Hall renovation for at least a couple years. Meanwhile, the May Co. building will still sit vacant. We are mad about the clear role that politics played in this decision. It is hurting the credibility of the historic tax credit program.

So, what are the options now? Any chance this can be privately funded, or do we just have to wait 2 years for the next catalytic tax credits? Are there any federal programs that would help with this kind of project?

Yeah this is total and complete BS. Music Hall was only chosen because it was in the headlines recently for being denied local funds, and it riled up preservationists. There is hardly anything catalytic that will come from giving the credits to the Music Hall. Meanwhile, the May Co. building continues to crumble on some of the best real estate in the city.

So, I guess the May Co. building is going to remain in crappy condition for at least the next couple years? That's kind of a bummer... I was really hoping that we'd get an updated May Co. building along with the Public Square face lift. Now it's going to be an even more noticeable eyesore.

The announcement for the historic tax credits is today. The catalytic tax credit announcement will be held in the Music Hall, which seems to strongly imply that the Music Hall will receive the tax credits. I was really thinking that May Co. had this one in the bag... It seems kind of silly to choose the Music Hall since it still being used, while the May Co. building is largely abandoned, and in visibly poor shape on the outside. Then again, I don't really know much about the Music Hall's condition, to be honest.

Looks like the only way that gap could be truly filled is with a tower on the Public Square parking lot. Hopefully some day soon!

^ I can't find any photos to back this up, but I think I remember seeing an old picture with the 1901 shields on it. I could be wrong though. Either way, it looks great. By the way, is there a retail component to this project? I'm assuming there is, because it's a prime location for retail. Have any restaurant/retail tenants signed on yet?

^^ My complaint is more about the architecture, rather than the existence of the Justice Center downtown. That block just completely kills the urban vibe, and totally cuts off the Warehouse District from the mall and convention center. And by "east of downtown" I still basically mean downtown. Like maybe the block between St. Clair, E. 13th, and E. 17th where there aren't many businesses. That's still walking distance from most of downtown, and could lead to some off-shoot developments in an area that could really use it. Or, more feasibly, just the county jail could be moved to that area, the Justice Center tower could be renovated (with new additions that go up to the sidewalk - with retail), and the former jail could be torn down and apartments built in its place. That way the common pleas court would still remain close to the county courthouse. I know I'm probably dreaming too big, but I think something needs to be done with that terrible block.

^ I won't say too much, but it's not looking likely that it is only temporary. They made some pretty terrible financial decisions there. I honestly think a restaurant like that could survive there, too, under the right management.