audidave

Well then the Pace/cumberland project should be a smashing success just north of the stadium especially for browns fans to move to. I think that will be a good proof of concept whether there is demand for lakefront living year round on Lake Erie.

^So let me get this straight, the city is shrinking and can’t afford the $2 million cost of keeping Burke open. Yet there are billions of dollars worth of land locked up under almost unbuildable Burke airport because “lakefront property”. How much does the city have to pay to shut down the airport and move operations to the other two airports? Does Cuyahoga county airport have the room for all the planes and the length of runway needed for overflow duties? I believe that is no. How much will the city need to spend to unlock the billions of real estate? Sewer, electric lines, fiber optic lines, gas, and water lines don’t build themselves. I assume there will be new streets, culverts, retention ponds, and street lighting with maybe some traffic signals since it will be so busy. That sounds like quite a bit more than a $2million year problem.

You do realize that the bulk of Burke is landfill and not suitable for high rises? The new UO visionaries always think that closing Burke means immediate expansion of downtown to the lake. Look at the example of Scranton Peninsula. A nice big swath of land next to downtown that could can finally be developed to its fullest. With all that land available, the first developer wants to put an infill apartment complex in surrounded by a sea of parking. That is not what anyone had in mind. With likely building height restrictions due to unstable soil and need for additional shoring up plus the water tables being high, i can’t envision any thing taller than 10 stories and that is likely pushing it. More likely what would happen is a retail complex with big box stores and hotels and yes apartment complexes probably 2-3 stories high.

^Definitely a bean counting exercise. Who is to say that by shuttering Burke there wouldn’t need to be additional expenditures, infrastructure and otherwise, at other surrounding airports. The unknown cost of companies and government offices that might leave downtown because of lack of access to Burke has to be weighed. Opportunity cost of future companies that may not come to Cleveland because of lack of easy access to downtown as well. The biggest thing MTS was hinting at is the millions that will have to be spent in the future modifying the infrastructure at Burke to undo the airport. The land isn’t going to be an instant corporate park or mixed use facility. How much will it cost to get it ready for its next mission? The better and much easier to answer would be ‘What can Burke do better to limit costs and increase revenues?’ If one is focused on bean counting.

Hopefully they do this in phases, if at all. I can see the townhomes being fine in the future. To me, townhomes imply walkable area. There is nothing walkable there and won’t be for at least 3-5 years. So that is hard to do first. The other part is pure dreck. It looked like they used an old version of MSPaint to size things up of how much they might be able to fit on that plot of land. More units, more money. I’m thinking if they are first movers on Scranton, planning commission will push for better. You don’t want other developers to think your bar is that low to build tenements or particle board palaces.

Pretty good weather the past few days got Cleveland some great exposure. A friend told me that hotels were booked all the way down to Cuyahoga Falls and Stow because of ASG. Definitely noticed a few more out of state license plates than normal in the Cuyahoga Valley this weekend.

^I guess i was thinking since the city was kicking in some money there were certain design tweaks they wanted to see happen for better continuity.

Any chance there will be tweaks to the design and layout? Everything has been approved from the drawings we last saw?

I don’t think flying fig or glbc will be hurting from this shut down. In fact like E4th, it may attract more pedestrians.

So thats where Browns orange comes from! ?

^Y’know that is one hell of a picture! The smog is so heavy in downtown. Everything is blackened by the coal trains including the buildings nearby. None of the 9 substation stacks are pumping out smoke and i don’t really see any of the steel mills further down the valley pumping out much smoke either. The Cuyahoga looks pretty brackish as well. No wonder people didn’t want to live downtown.

It depends how the circle is designed if it will be bicycle or ped friendly. The one example above is not bike or pedestrian friendly. They are creating a roundabout smack in the middle of downtown Akron on Lebron James Way aka Main St. i believe there will be a statue of him in the circle but they haven’t announced the details yet. I think it will be a water feature too. So maybe Lebron on a fountain? Anyways, this will be car, ped, and bike friendly. Its a fairly small circle and people will cross at normal intersections not in the circle. We shall see, it is about a third complete.

It depends on the pain level, irritation level, inefficiency of RTA, inefficiency of moving bollards for events, to decide if the city wants to move to “phase 2” of the public square upgrade. I think construction could be done in one year if no utilities need dug up and moved. In my mind its a fairly easy project. Digging down a slope from either direction to the square middle to about 10-12 feet deep. Put pavers down to control the speed. Then create a land-bridge that rises up 3-4 ft over top. RTA could use the entry and exits of Superior in the Square for bus stops. Maybe i’m way off base for the scaling of that. But that seems to be what i recall the design looked like.

^I would imagine there is great benefit of not forcing cars to go around the square. Driving around the square is quite hectic with all the lane changes, turn lanes, and bus traffic. I would imagine 70% or greater of the car traffic is trying to go through the square without stopping. It would take the chaos out of the square by eliminating them from the traffic weaving that goes on now. I believe the traffic lights are working now as it would be under this plan but there currently are no cars flowing thru Superior so that is an opportunity lost.

^Sounds a bit convoluted with all the tunnels. I still feel Public Square will be redone in 5 years or so to the underground option of traffic on Superior going beneath the square. It was more of Superior being dropped down and having a couple land bridges arch over. It seemed the most elegant of the 4 options but obviously the most expensive so they did the half measure.

Previously there was a group looking at these plants for the game-changing new type of spark plugs to be manufactured there. They used that phrase. It was movers and shakers of Northeast Ohio that were advisors to get the manufacturing going. That fell through a couple years ago and that group was disbanded. There still exists plasma igniter group that oversees the research and they have not made any big moves publicly. My understanding is they are manufactured in small batches in LA with the bulk of their product going to the military. It could be this company polishing off the previous plan since they were the ones originally in talks with Ford for those plants. Or it could be some other group we don’t know about.

I agree the further out one goes the less likely there is a chance of mergers. People live in Solon to not be in Cleveland. I think it has to be a focus on the inner suburbs. Make the other suburbs find value in merging with Cleveland or merging with neighboring suburbs. Every bit helps. The county should be more proactive. This becomes easier with singles and doubles not a big smashing regional government grand slam.

Parking and transit access will be top 2-3 issues for whatever is decided. I don’t see how this site gets a tall tower without a parking garage on part of the superblock. The question is do they really want to leave the riverside and Breen. I would think they do want to try to stay alongside the river but with updated facilities. They can build a signature building without going over 600 ft. A canyon on Huron could be created if they are ok with going next to the phase 2 casino which will happen if all these buildings start coming online. Driving down Huron would be a very impressive sight.

I think it would be strange for a state constitutionally mandated site for a casino to get an hq if that is one of the sites. To me this throws a whole bunch of things into the mix. They really should be working with the city and county too since they are an important and growing piece on the moving chess board of downtown CLE. RTA, with the rapid rail lines alongside and potentially below SW should be part of a discussion. How many more large buildings are in the works downtown? Does that change the economics of creating the waterfront line loop? Some serious urban planning needs to be happening right now in the CLE.

There are too many good if not better alternatives to FEB 9 months of the year. Parking is obviously an issue, I would think for employees and customers. Water taxi service will help out, but the best thing they could do is get the gondola system going or build out the WFL.

Excellent point. The city does have a seat at the table in how this project proceeds even more so if they are willing to put money towards the project to get it going. I think cities are taking a much more proactive part in downtown development projects, otherwise the city goes backwards. Cleveland doesn’t have to look far back in time to see what neglect looks like.

A couple of thoughts if maybe this wouldn’t be more successful now. Just like i believe it is MTS loves his one train rides from Shaker Square to the airport, so would people with airline options in Columbus or Mansfield or Dayton for that matter, love taking a train to CLE to depart especially in inclement weather. A factor back in 2010 was that Lyft and Uber did not exist so people would’ve thought even if they go to a nearby train station in Columbus to go to Cleveland they will still have to incorporate a parking fee in their travels and the travel time is not much different and the expense of gas vs a ticket on a train is not that different. That would likely be a deal breaker. So maybe with an older, wiser(?), Ohio population, they can see the advantages now of a 3C train system.

When i had to drive to work in Solon or Mayfield Heights i would contemplate all the horsepower of all the cars that are sitting idling in rush hour traffic on 271 and 480 in miles long backups. The people with the 450hp-500+hp engine sitting next to me are going just as fast as my car. Multiply the amount of capital sitting idle throughput the US and it really is disturbing. The more expensive car is not getting you more freedom. It just typically means you have to live further away to justify/afford that more expensive vehicle.

^My speculation is that obviously something isn’t quite right. Likely Stark is spread a bit thin between his projects(515 and Nucleus) and the Falls is pushing him for some progress that was likely quietly negotiated for to build those when the Front street update was complete. Its pretty much complete. Hard to put much focus on this project when having an active build going and still working on an even bigger more tenuous project for financing and approvals.

I’ve heard people privy to the discussion with the city of Cuyahoga Falls and the school district that the Starks project is dead to them as long as Starks continues to ask for a 30 year abatement for his tower(s)!on front st. I’m shocked he would have the audacity to ask for that long of an abatement. But i suppose opportunists feel the need to ask and sometimes you’ll actually receive. Maybe its too easy of a sell for a 15yr so he’s pushing for other things by asking for 30 and then try to get other concessions from the city once that is shot down. So we’ll see.