SixthCity

^ Still one of my all time favorite moments.

What difference does it make? Would u rather have it vacant? Smdh I would rather it wasn't populated with this kind of kitschy garbage, considering how long it took for it to happen. I don't think this is an unreasonable expectation. Since when is having high standards a bad thing around here? Oh Jesus. "Tourist trap for aging baby boomers," "kitschy garbage?" I'm not saying there aren't valid critiques to be leveled at the FEB but that level of hyperbole is ridiculous. I'm not sure what standards the FEB, as a whole, fails to meet too. In its entirety, the project is a collection of high end residences, modern office space, public space, and a mix of locally owned and chain restaurants. One may be less than enthused with the current tenant mix but the spit fire approach to the whole project just doesn't reflect the reality. FEB has many facets for some people to like and dislike but it's far from a failure by any set of principles which similar projects may be judged.

Hopefully this marks the end of this very unfortunate chapter... Cleveland men suspected in Tremont carjackings appear in court (photos) CLEVELAND, Ohio -- Three men arrested in connection with a string of summer carjackings in Cleveland's Tremont neighborhood appeared in court Monday. Antwowine Palmer, Carltez Henderson and Kevin Walker were arraigned on a combination of aggravated robbery, receiving stolen property and fleeing and eluding charges after spending the weekend in Cleveland City Jail. Cleveland Municipal Court Judge Joseph Zone set bond for Henderson and Walker, both 18 years old and in high school, at $50,000. Both men are charged with receiving stolen property. Henderson faces and additional fleeing and eluding charge. http://www.cleveland.com/metro/index.ssf/2015/08/cleveland_men_suspected_in_tre.html#incart_m-rpt-1

Spotted in the parking lot of E. 17th and Euclid this morning:

rio arrested after chase with CMHA police investigated in connection with Tremont armed robberies CLEVELAND, Ohio — Two 18-year-old men and a 16-year-old boy arrested following a car chase with police are being investigated in connection to recent armed robberies in Tremont, police said. Cleveland Metropolitan Housing Authority Deputy Police Chief Angel Morales said they are working with Cleveland police to see if the trio was involved in the recent rash of carjackings and robberies in the West Side neighborhood. No charges have been filed as of 3:30 p.m. Saturday. http://www.cleveland.com/metro/index.ssf/2015/08/trio_arrested_after_chase_with.html#incart_river

^ Yeah, I realize I have almost zero support for the removal of zoning codes.....so I'll settle for a very broad form-based overhaul.

^ I generally agree. I am very very skeptical that the theoretical "enlightened city official" really exists though. One may even call that an oxymoron! (sorry, I had to). Placing that level of discretion in the hands of government can go wrong fast and usually does. Sorry, my cranky libertarian side is showing. Anyways, I predict this is only going to hold for so much longer. Once you get the growing anti-gentrification faction riled up, the whole thing is going to collapse. More and more I come across bearded progressive types kvetching about phantom gentrification on the near west side. What's worse is they are always applying the rhetoric and bombast they read in articles written about the housing crunches in the coastal cities to the nascent growth here without even a cursory knowledge of the market. Pretty soon they will be organized and vocal. And they are Cimperman's constituency and very much his ideological companions (at least as stated so). He's going to cave one day and it will be ugly. The fact that a councilperson has that level of control over real estate decisions is a per se failure to me.

Gateway enough for me... I'm gonna kinda miss the smokestack. It's always stood out to me as a kid. Canadians buy Cleveland Thermal, will demolish downtown coal plant CLEVELAND, Ohio -- Major improvements are coming to Cleveland Thermal, including the demolition of the coal-fired steam plant in the Flats just blocks from Public Square. The Corix Group, a privately held company owned by the BC Investment Management Corporation, said Thursday that it had "finalized" an agreement with Cleveland Thermal to buy the company and expected to close the deal by Sept. 30. Terms were not disclosed. Cleveland City Council approved the sale in July and authorized the transfer of Cleveland Thermal's 25-year franchise to Corix after hearing that the sale would assist the company with its transition from coal to natural gas. http://www.cleveland.com/business/index.ssf/2015/08/canadians_buy_cleveland_therma.html#incart_river

There is some irony here that I find a little too delicious to go unnoticed. During the 19th century and the first half of the 20th century density was often cited as a driver of crime in urban areas and undesirable in and of itself. Earlier city planners were often obsessed with trying to dedensify urban areas or at least mitigate density's effects. The planning profession has done an about face on this issue only in the past couple decades. I know, I know Cities pre-WWII were very different places but the principle remains: how "good" is density as a value in a vacuum? Density instead, I think, should be viewed as a manifestation of demand to live in a certain area. If demand is high, then land prices will rise in turn. With higher land prices, higher density housing makes sense to recoup land costs. We are seeing this happen in real time in Ohio City and the near west side in general. This brings me to my larger point - Cleveland is playing a very dangerous game with it's current system of zoning and land use. Most of the zoning code is based on the original code from the 1920s! (I think I'm right about that, if I'm not, none of you will hesitate to correct me). Anyways, it's horribly out of date and any project with higher density ultimately must get a zoning variance or go through the longer process of amending the zoning maps. For those to happen, the developer must win the blessing of the Councilperson and/or the BZA. Regardless, developers and land owners of any scale must be on the right side of democratic politics - a fickle beast indeed. So, where does this leave us? In a precarious position. The near west side has been able to absorb new projects because Cimperman has been generally pro-development and the NIMBYs have been relatively quiet. But we should not expect this to hold. A new councilperson could effectively cast a moratorium on anything which requires a change to the zoning code (every new project, essentially) by opposing zoning changes. Cimperman has only so much political capital to burn before the NIMBYs get their way or he is replaced - I don't think either is imminent for the record. But we are going to see this defect in our system pop up in other places. I had the pleasure of being briefed on negotiations between a developer and a certain eastside Councilperson which amounted to the Councilperson attempting to essentially extort the developer in exchange the Councilperson's support for a project that needed administrative approval. That isn't the first and won't be the last time that happens. The power of zoning and more specifically, the power of an out of date zoning code which requires changes every time a new project is proposed is far far far too powerful. By and large, land owners should be able to do what they want with property they have purchased (maybe subject to some restrictions on "historic" properties). Planners and urbanists are usually very friendly to the institution of zoning, generally. I cannot understand why. The entire institution was created for and by single family homeowners to categorically block higher density projects - and it has worked greatly. We often overlook how subtle and effective the common law doctrine of nuisance was before it was essentially replaced with the invention of the modern zoning code. The former is much better settling land disputes and the jurisprudence was so developed that it allowed land owners/developers to pretty effectively anticipate potentially challenges. All of these problems work as an implicit tax and sometimes an outright barrier to new projects. If we really want to see land use maximized, we need to consider radically liberalizing our land use system and placing greater emphasis on property rights.

Agreed. The Cleveland zoning code is a mess. I would go further and work on liberalizing the whole zoning system though. Right now, the code telegraphs a false sense of security to current property owners and incredible uncertainty to prospective owners and developers. As it stands now, NIMBYers and the BZA/Council People have too much power over individual property rights. Cimperman is on board now but can you imagine what would happen to development if you had a Councilperson presiding over the near west side who sided with NIMBYism? It's just too sketchy to have that amount of power in the hands of government who arbitrarily manipulates the zoning code. Democratic control over property rights is immediately suspect to me.

First: 50/50 - I have no scientific basis for that number. Second: Realistically there is no reason it can't be both. RTA is only going to survive, however, if it puts itself in a position to appeal to people who don't have to use public transportation. It cannot remain a Krumholz era soup kitchen on wheels. Also, can we really argue that we haven't hit a point that demands some level of privatization? If not, how bad to things have to get? Relying exclusively on the public sector for meaningful mass transit has been a nightmare and I don't expect it to get any better. I haven't studied the mechanics of how privatized mass transit systems work but I can't bring myself to believe they can be any worse than the funding (or lack thereof) structure and operation we have now. Waiting for the public sector to get its ducks in a row seems like a futile cause. Third: It would be nice to be connected to Akron somehow.

Translation: "I think it's too hard!" None of these things are reasons why someone with the capital and expertise shouldn't embark on a venture that will live or die by its merits. I don't know much about the hyperloop at this point but do you really think that a entrepreneur shouldn't offer a new product because there are currently no service companies to support it? Do you honestly think that will remain the case if this thing is built?

Give me an email address and I'll start drafting testy emails to get Cleve on.

Directing the Boardwalk along Old River Rd. ("ORR") and making ORR something like East 4th would be the best scenario. A joint ownership venture for the building owners would likely be unpalatable for the owners and I totally don't fault them for that. An eminent domain program would be amazingly costly, long, litigious, and exhausting. ORR has a great historic streetwall on both sides of street. Better work with whats in reach now.

I know we're so desperate for development in this city that we cheer for basically anything that's proposed as long as it's built without a setback and isn't beige (for some reason), but that doesn't mean that everything that's proposed is good for the overall community. Glad you have such a rosy view of what Downtown's capable of supporting, though. That's definitely something we could use more of. Nice attempt to dodge my question. :wink: FCE is the best answer. But more importantly - what community exactly and who defines what choices are good and for whom? Yes to both. C'mon, I thought you were a hearty city dweller! But seriously, the FEB is not inaccessible or even out of the CBD. For rail riders, it's on the waterfront line, if anyone remembers what that is...

Sure they are. You really think the market downtown is robust enough to support TCC and this theater? Most likely. And if it's not, who is the appropriate party to direct your ire to? FEB for investing the money to build a theater or FCE for not investing money in theirs to stay competitive? Also, have you walked from public square to the FEB? It's like a 5 minute walk.

Yeah, you are. Then what is it? You and Suzie's choices are not mutually exclusive.

Of course it does. If the amount is nominal, then your assertion that the FEB project was created "through the use of everyone else's taxes" doesn't hold much water. Then for you, TC might be your theater of choice. And for Suzie, the FEB theater might be her theater of choice. So what's the problem? I must be missing the issue. I guarantee there was public money that went into the FCE's TC renovation that produced the TC theater. But for some reason that evades your critique.

You're right. It'll undoubtedly be a success. But it just cements the fact that we've created a place for people of a certain socioeconomic status to enjoy, paid for through everyone's taxes. What percent of the total project cost (not including the boardwalk) do you think is tax money? How much higher do you think these movie tickets will be compared to those of the TC theater?

We've been hearing those rumors for a while now, but still, what an awful idea. Tower City Cinemas are much more accessible to moviegoers from both sides of the city as well as downtown residents. Crocker on the Cuyahoga indeed. The consumers shall evaluate the idea with their wallets.

^ Wow, another one after we were told the suspects were caught and/or dead via the recent accident. At this point there's just no way this isn't going to debase the housing demand in Tremont.

The food court is pretty cramped.

With regards to what exactly? Maintenance, security, cleanliness, leasing? By no means am I defending FCE in their entirety but that's an empirical claim.

Hhmmm, we might have a contradiction here. But really, you may be right FCE needs to freshen up their approach. A leasing program like that of the 5th street arcades might do better to get more experimental local retail into the spaces although I think we're a good deal off from seeing a national chain resurgence at TC. But undergirding TC's leasing problems is the very real population shifts and the shopping trends that follow (retail follows rooftops). I doubt any of that is liable to change any time soon and that is certainly is out of FCE's hands. Any developer is going to face some serious market limitations for city center retail in non-coastal cities, especially with a property the size of TC. I think this is kind of silly. FCE is actively trying to sell their stake in TC (note: not terminal tower). A drop in value does not help them in any way and I think they are pretty uninterested in a big redevelopment project in Cleveland. Realistically, TC is at best is going to be a mid-level to lower mid-level retail center. It has some great assets: on transit line, location, connected to the casino and office space but it will probably never be returned to it's first iteration as a regional top-tier destination mall, at least not in the next couple decades. Being a mid-level retail center shouldn't be looked at as an abject failure though. I think the mall actually functions pretty well - we just have to adjust expectations to the market position it finds itself in.

^ Might be that little piece of East 13th south of Carnegie - it dead ends into I-90.