SixthCity

Someone better save those arched stone doorways that have "Tremont" carved into them. Always loved those.

Whoa whoa whoa back up there buddy. You apparently did not get the memo. There are 2 sides to this debate. You must either believe PS with buses will closely resemble the 9th circle of hell and will drag the rest of downtown with it to Satan's abode. Or, you believe that PS with buses is the highest possible form of public good and all things pious and anyone who disagrees wants to ship minorities off to labor camps. Pick. A. Side.

What Public Square really needs is...a giant Ferris wheel.

^ I'm all for caustic tones but have you been by that building? It's basically 4 crumbling, fire damaged, nondescript walls. It barely qualifies as a building anymore. There has to be some level of nuance introduced into the "this building is over 50 years old therefore it shall remain forever" stance.

And ponds!!

*Scene* A dusty labor crew toils away at the base of the Carl B. Stokes Courthouse in year 3051 AD. The camera zooms out to show a desert-like hellscape where urban Cleveland once stood. A depleted yet putrid body of multicolored liquid exists where Lake Erie used to be. This is the outcome of the Trump dynasty's world-spanning reign which began with the 2016 AD presidential election. Although all civil society, art, culture, and business has been destroyed under the various Trump edicts and wars, this labor crew continues to perform menial work on the Stokes Courthouse and receive automated payment through a glitch in the vast Federal bureaucracy that appropriated funds in 2016. They are the last existing people, and quite possibly the only hope for humanity. But at this point, what really constitutes humanity anymore? *End Scene*

Spoken like someone who may be more comfortable in Westlake. Too many tall buildings, accessible public amenities, and people in Battery Park huh?

Not sure I follow...

You nailed it. For some reason the word "innovative" is used to describe larding on more restrictions to our hopelessly dysfunctional code from the 1920s in addition to making the variance process even more opaque. How innovative. Progress!

Both owned by Jacobs Group, for what it's worth.

How do you know?

Well thank god you're not in charge. I don't want to see a City whose appreciable commercial activity is solely comprised of government offices, sports arenas, and museums. Do you have access to breakdown of the number of employees at the institutions you listed versus all other private businesses within City limits? I think the number of the latter is much larger than the former...at least much larger than you seem to think it is.

Yes, but also county, state, and Federal agencies have a significant majority of their institutions located within city limits. Unlike private businesses that might threaten to move and actually follow through because of increased income taxes, these institutions probably would not. Now I can't tell if you're trolling or not. Is your strategy to make a borderline intolerable taxing/revenue collection program and rely on the fact that some cultural institutions, sports arenas, and government offices can't/won't move easily?

Large institutions/businesses do have options. How on earth do you come to any other conclusion? The gears of decision making may turn slowly and the threshold may be higher than the average guy deciding where to buy a house....but yes, businesses consciously decide where to locate given the universe of variables in play. If your argument is "well the Cleveland Museum of Art and the Cleveland Clinic can't just pick up and move"....then good luck. The University Circle behemoths may stay put, but many other businesses/institutions will not. I can't even believe I'm typing this out tbh. Edit: Can someone please correct the spelling error in the title of this thread? It's driving me off the walls.

Rough day.

Some can't leave the City...but many can...and already have or will in the future. The irony of that view is that the more you burden those who can choose where to locate, the more financial pressure you will come under due to lost revenues...which leads to more totalitarian revenue collecting...which chooses more people to relocate and so on (and the death spiral continues). Except there is no "Cleveland or nothing" for the vast majority of people. It's "Cleveland or pretty much anywhere else including the suburbs" The vast majority of people in the region have no problem going for the latter. Do you honestly think that will end up with Cleveland coming out on top? EDIT: I'm sending my new slogan ideas to Destination Cleveland: "Cleveland: For Those That Have To." or "Cleveland, If You Must" or "Cleveland: When There's Only One Option."

Sounds like a bunch of god*amned Republicans in here. Did the RNC start early? :evil:

Gonna be tough in the winter with an open roof. (jk)

Hell yeah to this.

We do do that for retail. That's essentially the entire business model for the 5th Street Arcade. Many downtown retail spaces are extremely cheap, finding tenants is the problem.

Procedurally, sure, it may run smoothly. I have a problem with the conceptual foundation behind the entire enterprise and its current limits (or lack thereof). I'm fine to debate that but I feel that is a horse well beaten at this point.

This has worked very well throughout history. We all disagree with the government about something, maybe several things. I still prefer not to live in an anarchy. Your mileage may vary. If you equate the freedom of landowners to make discretionary architectural decisions with anarchy......

This has worked very well throughout history.

Great!!! What could go wrong?!

I think there is some reluctance to accept the idea that government based design reviews are somehow downloaded with knowledge of "correct" architectural decisions. These were buildings built by public entities: Some prefer a system where many different private actors make architectural decisions - that will lead to true diversity. Because it is ultimately the private actor who is exposed to the risk or reward of the project, they will be motivated to present the most competitive design.