DM4

I agree 100%. Nobody is saying there aren't pockets of growth (which are still population decline) but just because people are moving into Tremont and Ohio City doesn't mean the entire west side is growing! I could say people are moving into University Circle, so clearly Glenville, Hough, and East Cleveland are going to explode. There are a lot of west side areas, where the housing stock is bad, the block aren't walkable, and there aren't really any reasons for that area to rebound. This isnt an east vs west thing. Its reality. Every single census tract on the west side lost population between 2000 and 2010 besides for two near the airport. One gained 0.8% and the other gained 11.9% which is good. I wouldn't doubt that income declined though. Detroit Shoreway north of Detroit lost nearly 20% of its population in one census tract and 15% in the other. South of Detroit it was around 20% for most census tracts. Ohio City south of Lorain lost 24%, 20%, and 23.5%. The heart of tremont lost 10%. Clark Fulton had large declines, up to 26.5% population decline. The east side clearly declined faster, but that doesn't mean that the west side is not also declining at an alarming rate and that if the East side was a different city, Cleveland would be booming.

I thought I heard somewhere that the near west neighborhoods actually declined in population because low income families were being replaced by households with only 1 or 2 residents. Population declined, but wealth and the overall condition of the property and neighborhood improved. Downtown and University Circle's growth isn't from single family houses, so people didn't need to leave in order for newer residents to move in. Edit: Also KJP, only a fraction of those 17,000 living in Ohio City and Tremont are newer, wealthier residents. I would imagine over the next decade or so more of those lower income houses continue to get renovated and sold off to yp or empty nesters. This will probably further decline the population of those neighborhoods but again, the overall health of the neighborhood would drastically improve. It will be hard to reverse the decline as our "growing" neighborhoods will most likely continue to decline in overall population.

This made me think of that house in Cleveland Heights http://www.spotproperty.com/2424-stratford-rd-cleveland-heights-oh-44118-831283263

Too many factors at this point to decide. Lets hear what happens to Josh first. Manziel vs Hoyer poll would be interesting.

Such a terrible design. They could have had four buildings built in phases, one facing each street, with a central courtyard that would have been used a lot. Instead you have one ugly building taking up an entire block with random grass lots that nobody will use.

It should be Wiggins and just Wiggins. Giving up anything more is too much IMO.

The one has new siding up and the other one is getting a massive front deck repair.

I think some like to overstate the "decline of homeownership." Starter homes? Maybe...but most people end up buying once they have kids or when they get married. As for this development, I think higher end apartment buildings are generally better than rented single family homes.

Tweet of the year

p28curry[/member] I mentioned it earlier, not sure if you missed it, but what is wrong with PJ's Luncheonette? I would consider it a diner http://www.pjslunch.com/ Breakfast Menu http://www.pjslunch.com/breakfast Lunch Menu http://www.pjslunch.com/lunch Also mentioned in this thread is Huron Square Deli (Diner) http://www.huronsquaredeli.com/menu.html As for a ton of 24 hour places, Cleveland doesn't have the population to support that.

The risk of buying into a neighborhood like Detroit Shoreway is the unknown. If one is afraid of rentals, an established neighborhood would have been a better choice. Its not like these rentals will be public housing.

^ today more like a raisin :)

P.J.'s Luncheonette is probably the best cheap place to go for breakfast that is in the heart of downtown and doesn't require driving or a long walk

Didn't see any crews today either. I find that odd since I thought they would be working on it nonstop in order to get the rail line up and running again.

^ yep

^ I know, I was just throwing it out there that Phase 3 could happen next, and soon.

I think that's about to change in a big way with Intesa (rental) and One University Circle (for sale). Because this market hasn't been served in UC (as DM4 noted), projects like have been tough to bring to market. There just aren't a lot of old office buildings for conversion, so that means new construction. And we know how hard that it is to build. But once they get built, I suspect it will open the doors to copycats, as W28th suggested. Those will be huge projects. One University Circle is rental though I thought. Both with be very pricy for square footage though. BTW not sure if this has been posted or not, but Uptown West is 100% leased. (Phase 3???) Also I love the smaller scale apartments going up in University Circle. Theyve been kind of quiet, but Hazel8, 118 Flats, and 118 Flats-Square have been great projects and I think the area will see more of them. The Woodhill Supply site could be next! I would also look out for a couple other sites within the next couple of years :wink:

^ Never said nobody wanted to live downtown. And anyone who wants to live in the city AND have a fully updated unit(at a decent price) is pretty much forced to choose downtown. Do you honestly not see any connection?

^^ East 4th, 1717 East 9th, Bingham, Residences at Hanna, etc. Cheap is relative to price per square foot, but I would say around $1000. ^ I mentioned that in my first post... "Downtown has the advantage of old office buildings to convert as well as historic tax credits." These other neighborhoods don't have that advantage and require new build construction. Look at University Circle. All new apartments have been new construction. And look at the prices for Uptown, Hazel8, 118 Flats, 118 Square. WAY higher than downtown. The 9 will probably be the only place with similar pricing.

gotribe[/member] I was basically saying that currently anybody who wants to live in an updated apartment with a modern kitchen, air conditioning, and w/d in unit is stuck looking at downtown or accepting smaller space and higher price in University Circle. This helps boost the downtown apartment market. If things change though and Little Italy, Cleveland Heights, Shaker Heights, Ohio City, Tremont, and Detroit Shoreway get a lot more modern/updated properties with all of those amenities, many people will probably begin to look at neighborhoods instead of downtown. One can easily get a really nice apartment downtown for a cheap price. Trying to find that same apartment in the other neighborhoods listed is very tough.

The only thing different is the homepage correct? The forum seems exactly the same to me, which is great since it already worked perfectly.

Circle 118 added very expensive apartments and there doesn't appear to be any issues.

Modern stadiums always suck because of Club Seats. The stadium could be packed but the club seats are always mostly empty. Instead of enjoying the game in their seats they go to the stadium to watch the game on a tv inside and socialize. You'd never see that happen at the old stadium or at older stadiums like lambeau field.

A question came to me today that makes me wonder if something will hurt the downtown apartment market (not downtown in general). Right now it is very hard to find a high quality apartment for a good price in University Circle, Little Italy, Cleveland Heights, Shaker Heights, Ohio City, Tremont, and Detroit Shoreway. Lakewood too probably, especially if one wants to be near the action. In University Circle you will find smaller units for rents much higher than downtown. You will also find older units without updated interior or in unit w/d. Little Italy is mostly outdated without w/d. Cleveland Heights you can find nicer units for a decent price, but still no in unit w/d for the most part. Same goes for Shaker and Lakewood. For the most part, other than Little Italy, those buildings have in building w/d, but not in unit which a lot of people want. Ohio City, Tremont, and Detroit Shoreway have mostly houses(or parts of them) for rent, which can range on both price and quality. Not exactly sure what they offer. Compare that to Downtown where you can get a completely renovated interior with a new modern kitchen, bathrooms, hardwood floors, nice appliances, in unit w/d, shared workout room, etc. for a really good price. Right now if you like those other neighborhoods, you almost have to be willing to pay more for less, or pay slightly less for a far inferior unit. If things change though I could see a lot of people finally having the option to move to the neighborhoods which could possibly hurt the downtown apartment market, but be great for the city overall. What do you guys think? It is hard for things to change though since most new construction will be more expensive and smaller units, like what you see in University Circle. Downtown has the advantage of old office buildings to convert as well as historic tax credits.

JMasek[/member] When is the Little Italy station supposed to be completed? Ive heard 2016(seems way to long) and Spring 2015 which seems far more realistic. It looks pretty far along. The platform looks to be built already from what I can tell. I walked by today at 11:04 and there was nobody at the site (lunch?). Do crews work on it daily?