Jos Callinet

In all seriousness, given the political realities in Cincinnati (Mayor Cranley & Co.) and Ohio (Governor Kasich and his fervent Tea Party supporters), how likely is it that the Streetcar could be extended (Phase Two), no matter how promising the route modification you've shown here is in offering potential savings over the original route's cost? Should streetcar planners and advocates hold off on pushing for an extension of the Streetcar until AFTER the 2014 Midterm Elections - with the hope that a new more transit- friendly Governor of Ohio is elected - as well as until AFTER a more streetcar-friendly mayor is elected in Cincinnati? What is your take on how potent these two obstacles (our present mayor and governor) are at being able to interfere with the streetcar's getting the green light to be extended anytime soon, even if Federal help becomes available? Is it realistic to expect that we're probably in for a longish wait of at least several more years at a minimum before the streetcar could get the nod to be extended to the U. of Cincinnati and the Medical Center?

Officials trying to change Ohio Governor's mind about WHAT, exactly?

It's amazing sometimes how random discussions on blogs like this can suddenly lead to awesome discoveries in blinding flashes of creative light, resulting in super solutions to tough problems that until that very moment never crossed anyone's mind - to wit: The fighter-jet concept for getting around Cincinnati could be used to solve the streetcar problem in one fell swoop with some slight modifications - provide all Cincinnatians, young and old, with small back-pack-mounted personal jetskis so they can "teleport" themselves in an instant, above all traffic, from any part of Over-The-Rhine to downtown or downtown to uptown and the U. of Cincinnati and medical center in a mere fraction of the time - and expense - to ride on that antediluvian relic of a streetcar we're building! Why, oh why, did this brilliant idea not occur to someone sooner? It's nothing short of a miracle that could yet save us from even more years of angst over a streetcar. Perhaps it's still not too late to change course! Let's turn to Mayor Cranley and see if maybe he's got an idea or two how to implement a city-wide jetski program. After all, he does slightly resemble Flash Gordon!

What's so striking about Houston's new light rail line is not only its bleak, empty desolate surroundings, but the fact that it appears that virtually nobody is riding it! Makes one wonder, what the heck is the matter with the Feds' funding priorities for light rail? If this is the kind of ridership Cincinnati is going to experience on its new system, God help us! Maybe the Feds are hoping that Houston's new line will help to spur redevelopment of the area it traverses. Looks like it's going to take a LOT of reinvestment to revive this barren landscape. For now, Houston has a fast, sleek-looking train to nowheresville!

You could have added: "Killer Streetcar - attacks citizens" and, given the vehemence of its opponents, one might think that it .... "Stinks worse than the thousands of abandoned refrigerators full of rotting food left behind in New Orleans after Hurricane Katrina!" (That WAS a horrendous problem, which taught everyone there the importance of emptying their refrigerators and freezers BEFORE evacuating the city. The stench in the hot humid air was overwhelming to the evacuees who returned, and it was weeks before FEMA was able to arrange to have all those ruined appliances hauled away.)

Absolutely :wink: FakeCinEnguirer: that's my idea of a periodical. Glad I got my "point" across!

It's a rubber Hallowe'en mask - scary, ain't it!

It's great to know there's a streetcar in our cards; it's like holding the Royal Flush!

To natininja et al: Tunnels or no tunnels, phase two or no phase two, all any of us can do at this point is wait --- very patiently --- for the next several years while this first phase of the Cincinnati Streetcar is painstakingly assembled, piece by piece, until it is at long last put to the acid test: Will Cincinnatians and visitors alike find that it adequately serves their needs, or will they discover to their dismay and disappointment that it can't? How the streetcar is presented to the public (vehicle cleanliness inside and out at all times, consistently pleasant attitude and helpfulness from all on-board personnel) coupled with good all-day and -evening service, an easily-understood and user-friendly fare-payment system, and quality real-time information, also will all have a major impact on how well riders take to it. Only time and experience will tell. At least we can be thankful for the fact that we soon will have the opportunity to find out for real if a properly-run streetcar in Cincinnati can make the cut.

What gets me about Ann Murray's appointment to head the Transportation Committee is - it was unanimously approved by the entire city council. Somebody must know something we don't - namely, why the streetcar supporters on Council went along with her appointment. Do you think they did so to "keep peace in the family," so to speak? Can anyone here shed more light on what led to Murray, of all people, getting this appointment, and why? How likely is it that Murray as head of the Transportation Committee and an avowed opponent of the Streetcar will (or can) mess up the Streetcar Project and ultimately force it to fail? Does she have that power? My own guess is that she could not singlehandedly screw up the streetcar - if for no other reason than that a majority of council would have to approve any measures she advocates.

Hi, taestell, I totally understand why you refer to the type of rail that Cincinnati is NOT installing as "grooved rail." Actually, "grooved" street-railway rail has been around since nearly the beginning of the original streetcar era at the end of the 19th century, and it was mainly called "girder rail," as shown in this web-link ( http://www.atlantictrack.com/international/espanol/pdf/MRT_Brochure.pdf ) to a rail manufacturer (scroll down to P. 6 in their PDF brochure to find their illustration of girder rail). The kind of rail being installed in Cincinnati is called "T-Rail," because, when viewed from its end, it resembles the letter "T."

These days, having the streetcar to talk about (and watch grow, even in the dead of winter), is something to be TANKful for!

Posted by: DM4 « on: Today at 12:30:46 PM » The fare-payment system where people can board and exit streetcars and buses via all doors is called the "honor fare system." In Toronto, Ontario, the Toronto Transit Commission has named it "POP," meaning "Proof Of Payment," used mainly on their Queen Street streetcar route. People buy tickets from machines at stops, or use daily, weekly or monthly passes. When boarding, they insert their tickets into small validating machines located by each door - these machines stamp their tickets with the time and day, making them good for trips of up to two hours from that point. On many systems, validated tickets are also good for transfers from streetcar to bus and subway, or vice-versa, as long as an entire trip is completed during the two-hour window. When using the honor-fare-payment system, or POP, a typical rider may find that four out of every five times he/she rides, no one comes by to check to see if they've got a properly-stamped and -validated ticket with them. Essentially that person can take their chances and ride for free and get away with it. HOWEVER, if that same person happens to be "unlucky," a roving ticket inspector shows up and asks everyone present to show their POP (Proof Of Payment,) and if anyone's unable to, the inspector immediately issues that person a fine of up to $200.00. In California, The San Diego Trolley uses the Honor Fare System. Last I knew, the fare-evasion rate in San Diego was pretty low, under 5%. People board and exit the San Diego Trolley by all doors. There are sometimes three cars in one train, but there's only one operator, in the front car. Each of the three cars in that train has four sets of doors per side, so there are TWELVE doors for everyone at crowded rush-hour stops to use. To board, riders waiting on the platform press a button next to the door they're standing closest to when the streetcar or train stops, and the door opens. Same for when they're ready to get off - they press a button on a stanchion by the door they're standing or seated closest to. San Diego Trolley's operators therefore don't have to open and close the doors. If no one presses a button either inside or outside the car or train, that particular door doesn't open. The trolley or train cannot move until everyone has boarded and/or alighted and all doors are shut, thanks to a safety-interlock system. The great advantage of the proof-of-payment honor system is that it lets passengers rapidly board and exit via all doors at all stops, greatly reducing the time the old-fashioned fare-payment systems waste while people slowly file, one by one, in through the front door to drop their fares into the fare box or swipe transit passes. People rummaging through their purses or pockets for bills and coins to pay further slow down the already maddeningly-slow service. This aggravation is a major reason why so many car drivers hate to use public transportation - people don't want to be kept waiting whilst others board and fumble for change at every stop. I assume that Cincinnati's present bus system still uses the old-fashioned one-person-at-a-time-thru-the-front-door payment system. I hope the streetcar introduces the much faster, more efficient honor-fare system. It is used throughout Europe.

I, as an observer from Chicago of this and other blogs on UrbanOhio, get the impression from this rather extensive thread dating back now several years, that the "HEALTH LINE AIN'T SO HEALTHY!" Is there any regular on this thread who can offer his/her honest opinion on just how well the Health Line has actually performed - as compared to the promises its promoters made? From what I've seen mentioned more than once on this thread, the Health Line BRT seems to be suffering rather extensively from poor operational oversight and management, leading to bus bunching resulting in long waits for service. Hardly what I'd call a resounding endorsement of at least this particular edition of bus rapid transit. Isn't Cleveland's Health Line being promoted nationwide as THE Rolls-Royce-Level Gold Standard against which all other BRT and light-rail efforts are being measured? I await your comments with bated (not baited) breath!

I'm trying to figure out just what is it about the streetcar that raises so many people's ire so greatly? My guess is that it's highly visible - to them, a thorn in their side constantly reminding them of defeat. I wouldn't be at all surprised to see the 700 WLW crowd aim for another referendum or amendment to the city charter to try to rid the city of the streetcar. Seems they'll fight it to the death. Their unrelenting hostility reminds me of the conflict between the Israelis and the Palestinians. These people are full of anger for a variety of reasons, many of which probably have little or nothing to do with the streetcar itself; it's just that it provides them with an ideal high-visibility, high-profile target at which to vent their rage.

Does anyone know which were the best-performing streetcar lines in Cincinnati before abandonment? (I don't suppose there are very many people left who remember that far back, so posing this question might be a tough call.) Reintroducing one or two of the old Cincinnati Street Railway's best-performing and highest-ridership streetcar routes should be how to go about extending our starter line to more areas of the city, provided they'd make sense today.

Communism on the march!

I am shocked beyond belief that evil Communists could have forced Cincinnatians by the hundreds to go out against their will into the cold and dark of December to collect signatures for the Charter Amendment! Boy, this letter to the editor shows how far off the deep end some people's thinking has gone. No wonder it has been so hard to engage some streetcar opponents in an open-minded debate.

Boy! I'll say! Was John ever right! Here we are, seven years, twelve days and six hundred sixty-one Forum Pages later, still struggling mightily to get one little starter line built.

Sorry, unusualfire, I got ahead of myself in answering your question. Like you, I'll be watching from afar the progress of this wonderful little starter streetcar line as it is built. I assume people in Cincinnati will be keeping a photographic as well as written record of its progress. Please be sure to take some "before-and-after" pictures of the route. Given the drama surrounding this project, and its significance to Cincinnati and beyond, it'd be great to see someone write an illustrated history about it after it's completed. FakeCinEnquirer, I hope we can all now sit back and enjoy seeing this come to fruition without any more interruptions! Once this is built and in operation, it'll be interesting to see how people react to the high level of quality the streetcar is sure to bring to the public's concept of public transit. It's going to be a quantum leap! Will be interesting to see if we hear of other neighborhoods wanting in on this once they get a taste of it.

Logic would have it that the next principal milestone for the project will be to have the track, overhead line, power station and car barn/maintenance facility essentially completed, and at least one of the streetcars delivered and under test.

That talk-radio crowd is one nasty bunch of heartless losers.

We CANNOT afford NOT to keep an ever-watchful eye cast over our shoulders, even as we gladly move forward as you, KJP, so rightly urge us to, by offering coffee, doughnuts along with our encouragement and appreciation to our streetcar workers. We must be ever vigilant, as fall 2013's mayoral and city council election has so dramatically taught us - we can't afford to sit back on our laurels and casually allow an opposition candidate (like Cranley, whom we didn't take seriously) to slip in unnoticed beneath our radar, until after we awaken the day following an election only to discover to our great dismay that he's been elected.

<<From:FakeCinEnquirer on: Today at 05:08:31 am>> I get the feeling that COAST may again try to collect signatures to force yet another vote on the Streetcar. Does anyone else on this forum think at this point COAST will really bother to go to all that trouble? When is enough, enough? How many times can they force a referendum on the same issue before it's considered a settled matter?

I believe FakeCinEnquirer may be referring to this announcement re: Smitherman and the NAACP last June; read this: http://citybeat.com/cincinnati/blog-4767-smitherman_temporarily_stepping_down_from_naacp.html