thebillshark

This is the back half of the historic buildings along Race St. that are part of the 15th and Race project... Was there a building collapse? I didn't think any of these were supposed to be partially demolished as part of the new plan.

Kulkarni was the recent appointment to the historic conservation board. http://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2015/08/10/historic-conservation-board-appointee-had-years.html

The issue is that page is an absolute megaphone with a nationwide following at this point. I don't think that that should be given up. Also the "official" project can't advocate properly and forcefully for itself and its own expansion because it's a public entity. I think Derek does a good job of keeping things civil and clean. Most anti-streetcar comments are simply deleted instead of engaging in nasty arguments which I think is smart.

I don't know. I just don't see room for two sets of light rail tracks plus a bike path plus a pedestrian path in that Wasson Road photo/rendering above. And all the street crossings makes me think rail should be underground for this portion (not a subway with stations but just a tunnel through this portion.) It'd be great if they could dig it up and place a concrete tunnel for future use before they build out the bike trail but I don't see them having the funds or political will to do something like that. Given that it may be 20-30 years before we even get light rail as far as Xavier (including building a Mt. Auburn Tunnel) I wonder how much effort it's worth to fight the "must include rail" battle in the present. Even having a walk/bike trail like this connect to a light rail station at Xavier would be a huge asset. (Any Trail ROW west of I-71 would absolutely have to be preserved for light rail however for light rail to make it to Xavier.) I would support spending a few extra million to protect for light rail, but I wouldn't want to kill off plans entirely for a trail that didn't include light rail protection.

I wonder if 3cdc will pull a "hat trick" of underground parking garages beneath parks with Findlay Playground to facilitate development around the Market and the northern area of Vine Street which has a pretty good solid remaining street wall. Also the Liberty Street redo will play a role (there's a public input meeting next Wednesday the same day as the streetcar celebration)

I don't think it would affect it at all. Historical renovation is slow and expensive but demand will always exceed supply (for historical homes in neighborhoods perceived as safe.) I would view adding housing as I described as adding "bonus residents" in the meantime that can sustain businesses and add to vibrancy. I am picturing something that be somewhat more affordable and add diversity to the housing stock.

What I think would be interesting is if there were some new, large-ish residential buildings with ground floor commercial built along Central Parkway one block west of Elm. (In place of the lots and underutilized shorter non contributing buildings.) That could drive some foot traffic to the western edge of OTR.

It's great that so many arts institutions will be located in one place. It should help keep many of the bars and restaurants in the area busy. I do also think that their move is a sign that things are not great for the western half of the CBD at the moment. While the areas around Fountain Square and The Banks are doing well, the western half of the CBD doesn't have much going on. True. That starts with the stalled 4th and Race project and the parking crater across from the convention center, to the ominously empty Terrace Plaza hotel which will almost "cancel out" the new street life brought by 84.51, all the way up to the massive open parking fields surrounding City Hall. You'd think those lots in the NW quadrant could be developed and marketed as "OTR near" and be considered to be on the streetcar route. Especially you'd think someone at Turner Construction office building would know how to do a deal to develop the massive surface parking lot of their Court Street Center office, even with maintaining parking spaces for their employees in a new garage.

There's not really space to do even what you see in that photo on Hamilton Ave. It's a 45-foot wide street with no left-turn lanes at cross streets. Also, those stub-end turnarounds are odd-looking and require the driver to walk from one side of the streetcar to the other whereas a looped turnaround allows the car to keep moving. I wonder if you would be able to put a turn around into the Northside Transit Center SORTA is building That was the original suggestion I had on the map I posted back on page 768. Ideally I think our streetcar lines/light rail extensions should have a terminus connecting to major bus routes, using a transit plaza where possible to make life easy for transferring riders.

^^^That approach into downtown would be a heck of a view from here: https://cincinnatiideas.wordpress.com/mt-adams-gondola/

That's true, but you need at least a turning lane and most likely a special traffic signal. Here's the turnaround of the South Lake Union streetcar in Seattle:

I found this study from Minneapolis explaining some of the economics at play. http://www.ci.minneapolis.mn.us/www/groups/public/@cped/documents/webcontent/wcms1p-114547.pdf The problem is although surface parking lots can suck the life out of a given area they can be pretty valuable to individual owners. It is kind of like a Tragedy of the Commons situation where an individual can make personal profit by depleting a shared resource. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tragedy_of_the_commons In this case, the shared resource is the vitality of a city!

They had an aerial shot of the city during last night's game- the FWW "blocks" were outlined with lights, forming perfect rectangles- looked pretty cool.

Maybe this is getting into "Beyond the Streetcar" thread territory but I had a question on this. Would redecking the viaduct require the complete closure of the viaduct for any length of time? Would redecking the existing viaduct add any years to its expected lifespan? Or would the cost be so high it would rival the cost of just building a new transit viaduct in parallel? Just wondering if it would be cost competitive to have something new with dedicated ROW, but if you did build new, you would have to maintain it, plow it in the winter , etc. Also tunnel entrances (relevant to the proposed Mt. Auburn tunnel as well): How do you keep people out of them? Would they be blocked with something more extensive than a railroad arm? I think it would be super stressful for train drivers if they always has to worry about kids playing near the tunnel entrances, etc. How's it done in other cities?

This Eastern Bypass concept, if pursued, would be the single greatest waste of resources in our region since ever.

I respect him for coming around on the streetcar, but his popularity suggests he could have been a solid "For" before the election and still have won and saved everyone the drama. Could have been more in front of the issue.

I'd caution reading to much into this. IAGuy39[/member] brings up a lot of good points above, but I wonder how many voters were aware of any of them. I just think the voters that show up on presidential election off years are very conservative and it would have been very difficult to pass any tax or change to the status quo last night. That and Cranley had pissed off all the streetcar progressives which might have been about a 5 to 8% swing in my wild guess estimation. Also, Yvette should be the next Mayor. PG seems afraid to get his hands dirty with anything on council.

Putting a station at the new Hopple St. overpass could make a lot of sense if the City sells the maintenance garage property and encourages a high-density development on the site something like what exists at I-71 and Dorchester/Eden Park. The site has great visibility and access from the interstate and combined with transit access it could make for a valuable office/hotel site. Also, the county (I believe) owns the old Workhouse property across the highway, which is now the site of the salt dome and Camp Washington Urban Farm. Assuming a transit line on the east side of I-75, development of that property on the west side would be helped with a pedestrian bridge over the interstate, since the new Monmouth St. overpass is a bit too far north. There are also a lot of people living in the Clifton Colony and Forum apartment complexes east of Central Parkway. Currently those complexes, which have several hundred units each, have no convenient bus access. Ehhhhhhhhhh. I'm gonna say yes to his first idea, which was Monmouth and that I don't think Hopple would work. Hopple is a HORRENDOUS pedestrian experience. Monmouth is a nice easy walk to Camp Washington. Hopple is 100% for cars only now. The Camp has some room for growth and I feel that a station there would be easily accessble to that area. A few additional thoughts: 1. I like the stop at Monmouth too. It would serve the future renovated Crosley Building as well as the American Sign Museum, as well as some of the historic buildings in Camp Washington along Colerain. Also Depaul Christo Rey High School on the Parkway side. And, you could still have a large transit oriented development at the City Garage site. 2. I assume the City Garage needs to remain close to the salt pile… What if the Port Authority organized a land swap? Build a new City Garage facility on a portion of the old Kahn's industrial site. Then have the Port Authority take over the present City Garage site where it would have more options to build mixed use development including office, hotel, and residential that would be served by streetcar. 3. You could also partner with Cincinnati State to include space for new facilities at the Port Authority developed City Garage site (or at another stop along the streetcar line.) Part of the rationale for the Cincinnati State-South Cumminsville road bridge connector is providing room for the expansion of Cincinnati State. Housing for students with children with day care facilities was mentioned. What if instead the expansion was a short ride down the Parkway on frequent transit? You could avoid the roughly $40 million cost of the bridge entirely, the facilities would be roughly the same distance away, and served by transit. You could eliminate the ask for the auto bridge, perhaps get a TIGER grant for the streetcar extension, and perhaps get a federal match for the value of the tunnels. I like this idea more and more every time I think about it!

agreed. but it will be back on the ballot again soon enough, hopefully as a better piece of legislation Nope. It got crushed. No one will touch it for awhile. I predict an amendment will not be ready for next year (a presidential election) and thus this has no chance until 2020. In the meantime I predict 10-15 states and perhaps the federal government will legalize. I hope someone is keeping track of all the $ we will lose out on and all the unnecessary $ we will spend jailing our citizens (as well as their time served) in the interim.

When David Mann was first elected, he raised an issue that really hasn't been revisited. Basically there is a cap on the total property tax the city collects that was put in place over a decade ago and doesn't keep up with inflation. So the city doesnt receive any financial "positive reenforcement" for rising property values as has been taking place in OTR. Instead everyone gets to pay slightly less property tax each year because their relative share of the total amount goes down. Is this parks measure a roundabout way of collecting some of that money without directly repealing this cap?

^^What if you went into the planned new Metro Transit Center (parking lot behind Django) an used that as your turnaround? Or, make it to the transit center, then cross Blue Rock and get on the CH&D/B&O right of way in the American Can parking lot, follow it east to Crawford Ave, and then go up to College Hill on the College Hill Railroad Right of Way? (Thanks jjakucyk[/member] for your website map without which I would not have been able to articulate that last sentence!)

Putting a station at the new Hopple St. overpass could make a lot of sense if the City sells the maintenance garage property and encourages a high-density development on the site something like what exists at I-71 and Dorchester/Eden Park. The site has great visibility and access from the interstate and combined with transit access it could make for a valuable office/hotel site. Also, the county (I believe) owns the old Workhouse property across the highway, which is now the site of the salt dome and Camp Washington Urban Farm. Assuming a transit line on the east side of I-75, development of that property on the west side would be helped with a pedestrian bridge over the interstate, since the new Monmouth St. overpass is a bit too far north. There are also a lot of people living in the Clifton Colony and Forum apartment complexes east of Central Parkway. Currently those complexes, which have several hundred units each, have no convenient bus access. Wanted to ask about that. Where would the track be running as it passes Hopple? Aren't there existing tunnels there with a southbound portal but no northbound portals or something? Is the new Hopple Street bridge too elevated to have a station (requiring elevators to reach the bridge level from the tracks?) Is it pedestrian friendly enough? If these issues could be dealt with Hopple would make a great stop because it is closer to the heart of Camp Washington than the Monmouth stop I envisioned. But I agree there could be some great TOD along Central for example a residential mid rise replacing the stand alone Credit Union, something at those garages, etc. EDIT: oh, you mean have the stop be slightly north of Hopple with a new pedestrian bridge over I-75 to serve the stop?

^speed matters too, and will vary with time of day. It's going to take longer to complete a loop at rush hour, due to traffic and stopping to pick up people at most of the stops, than it would late at night when the streets are clear and it's making less stops. So you might be able to obtain a good frequency late at night with only 2 streetcars running as opposed to during peak times when you would need 3 or even 4. I imagine there are estimates for speeds somewhere that would be further refined during the test phase.

WTF?

There were tons of people out in OTR last night. I walk past the Columbia almost every night & everyone hanging out there in front is always polite and respectful. TroyEros[/member] if you make up negative stories about the neighborhood I love you're going to get called out.