thebillshark

^I'm calling bullcrap. Didn't happen.

I revisited Travis's idea from the map that he posted a few pages back dealing with an extension to Northside partially using the old subway tunnels and added my own details. The existing line would be extended northward to McMicken where it cuts over Stark St. in the area of Hanna Playground and then enters the underground. The old Brighton station is used as a stop. The line emerges from the tunnels south or Marshall and travels in a dedicated right of way in between I-75 and Central Parkway. with further stops at Marshall and Monmouth Avenues to try to serve Camp Washington. The tracks get back on the Parkway for a Cincinnati State stop. Then they can either go through Mt. Storm Park over a new dedicated viaduct to the Metro transit center in Northside as shown, or they could use the existing Ludlow viaduct and take a right on Spring Grove to get to the transit center. Assuming the an average of 25 mph after going underground all the way to Northside, and assuming 8 mph in the current streetcar loop, the line would take about 24 minutes from end to end and be competitive with car travel. With 5 vehicles in operation the minimum headway would be a little under 10 minutes. You would be adding to the line, according to 2010 Census figures: 2,233 people in Brighton, 1,343 in Camp Washington, and 7,467 from Northside for a total of 11,013. You would be adding a big institution, Cincinnati State, adding the Northside neighborhood business district, and also be connecting to an important transit center outside of downtown. Some notes on this idea: 1. You're only using a portion of the old subway, so that should save money over rehabbing the whole thing. Of course there would be further savings by just running on the surface of Central Parkway, but you would be slowed by sharing the right of way. 2. You're not connecting downtown/OTR to another employment center like you would be with an extension to Uptown. However, you're connecting downtown and OTR to something it is currently lacking- a good amount of affordable market rate housing stock. 3. As opposed to Uptown there may be less stakeholders to coordinate with different ideas of what should happen. 4. Could exist in parallel with the Mt. Auburn tunnel. taestell[/member] said his map was jmecklenborg[/member] inspired- would you guys mid if I cross-posted this post on my website https://cincinnatiideas.wordpress.com/ ?

I wouldn't say our economy declined badly since 1950's (when the streetcar network was dismantled.) The streetcar network being dismantled and the "doughnut hole" suburbanization that occurred was typical of cities across the country. Meanwhile our metro economy grew steadily but didn't experience explosive growth like cities in the south and west. There are answers to explaining those things but they are not short and simple.

^Sounds like the perfect fit for the new MLK biotech & research corridor. Uptown consortium needs something to get their plans off the ground. From the way the article jumps from location to location it sounds like that CEO is fishing hard for incentives though...

Being as that it's been closed for construction for seemingly the past two years, I don't know how it could still be a top 5 crime hotspot? Given all the new activity on Republic I doubt it will return to its old ways. I would like to give it a chance as a pass-through again. I think little alleys like that really make a place interesting, like all the little alleys that are part of the Mercer development. (If they blocked a chunk off I would be OK with that if you could still get through to Republic St.)

^I was going to go with storage out-building at a truck stop. I hope it's just an early rendering that's not doing the final product justice. When this project was announced I had thought they were moving into the existing building, guess they're building new. I think this is a good use for the property. You're adding an arts institution to SCPA/Memorial Hall/Music Hall corridor, and you're avoiding the horrible optics/political fallout of replacing the Drop Inn Center with high end condos.

doesn't sound fatal to the building from this http://local12.com/m/news/features/top-stories/stories/Building-collapses-on-Race-Street-in-OTR-223542.shtml

^I think that it will probably be adjusted to be more in line with what you say, there was an input gathering session this summer at the library where they collected similar comments.

A few items regarding the Parks Charter Amendment: 1. I wonder how this works together with Wasson Way's TIGER grant. If Wasson Way gets the TIGER grant will a lot of this money get freed up to work on other projects? Cincinnati had two TIGER grant applications, for Wasson and the Cincinnati State road bridge connector to South Cumminsville. Is the Cranley administration going to lobby the feds behind the scenes for the Cincinnati State road project TIGER grant in lieu of Wasson thinking that Wasson is paid for by this amendment? 2. Protecting for light rail along Wasson Way- last I saw it would be a few million dollars extra to protect for the possibility of future Wasson Way light rail in the design of the hike/bike trail. Will the extra money absolutely not come if this amendment fails? Will the Cranley administration be willing to pay the extra money if this amendment passes? Since the mayor's office is so involved with the development of these projects is he going to intentionally preclude any light rail provisions? 3. I love a lot of these projects. I've been following on social media and attended the Niehoff urban studio event. To be honest, some of the opposition talking points are flimsy, and the mayor was a convincing speaker at the event. But unfortunately this has become all about the mayor. This has become about trusting $80 million to someone who was more than willing to watch $50 million in streetcar money go up in smoke. 4. This WAS all about the mayor but increasingly it's becoming more and more about the Parks board and Parks foundation, which includes some of the richest and most powerful people in town, and can draw on endowment accounts. They were able to get Music Hall done after being left out of the Save our Icons sales tax, and by extension one wonders how many of these projects will get done even if this proposal gets rejected. I don’t know… I really wish all these bike trails could be built out tomorrow… it doesn't seem like that much money… but there's all this other peripheral stuff going on.

Those stencils are only going on the parts of that track that are transit-only lanes. I hope they add the word "only" below the streetcar to clarify that. Meaning you can't drive in that lane at any time what so ever? If so, yeah that would probably be help to add the word "only" Yes, there are handful of places where the streetcar gets its own lane. Race south of the MOF (including the Findlay Market stop), Central Parkway at Walnut, Main and Walnut bridges over FWW, 2nd Street (including The Banks stop), and 1 block of Main through Gov't Square. Hell, if they're already doing that, they should just go ahead and dedicate the streetcar lane on Main St. from FWW all the way to the jog-over just north of Government Square (where it switches from the right side of the road to the left side.)

I thought the casino was going to be directly involved in a "workforce" housing development in Pendleton? Or maybe I'm just getting confused with the streetscape improvements... I used to go to the casino fairly often when it opened, but hardly any anymore. I liked it when they mailed out the coupon book with the free bet coupons, I would ride my bike there and play it and then walk out, win or lose. And also swiped my rewards card at the promotions kiosk. But then they stopped mailing me the books, and the promotional drawings were all at weird times on Saturdays and you had to be there in person for them. I guess they figured out I wasn't one of their "core customers" pretty quick. I'd be more inclined to go there if I felt like I was getting a great deal/ getting something for free more often, like food or drink (don't they do that in Vegas?) I really like Bobby's Burger Palace in there.

1. An intriguing thought I had: My Cinculators concept https://cincinnatiideas.wordpress.com/cinculators/ could be partially tested/implemented with only the first phase of the streetcar line in place. All that would be required is for the Uptown bus circulator lines to come down the Vine Street hill to form a connection point at the Race Street Findlay Market streetcar stop. 2. When we think about transit routing I think it’s a good idea to think in terms of nodes that are being connected. To attract ridership, preferably you would want to connect strong nodes high in either population or economic activity, with the shortest route possible (straight line) at the highest speed possible. Preferably the nodes would be highly walkable areas. Then ideally you would also have some underdeveloped areas on the line, where you can take credit for the ROI as they develop, because they benefit from the connection to the strong nodes. That's what John's Mt. Auburn tunnel plan does so well- connects Downtown and Uptown, the two economically strongest, most walkable nodes in our metro region- with a straight line that also affords transit vehicles the chance to pick up some speed in the tunnel. While finally using the old subway tunnels for a westward-bound light rail line is a romantic and satisfying notion, the physical layout of our city is different from when they were constructed. I question whether this route can connect enough valuable nodes to be worth the expense. There's not much left of Fairmount. Westwood and Price Hill would be difficult to access. West side neighborhoods along the I-74 corridor are neither dense nor walkable. Northside and Cincinnati State are great destinations, but it's a legitimate question whether they should anchor our first light rail line, especially considering the expense of reactivating the tunnels. An aside: thinking of how the subway was constructed out of the old canal. If light rail were ever to come to the Wasson Way line, would it be possible to dig up the right of way and drop in a tube such that light rail is underground for portions of the line? Thinking specifically for all of the grade crossings between Madison and Paxton that could be avoided. Then the bike trail on the surface could be twice as wide too.

Each section of the project has a price tag similar to the streetcar and snarls up traffic for years but not a peep of protest from the usual suspects...

Just crank this up! Also if the Mt. Auburn tunnel option is pursued, I suggest a change in nomenclature from "Phase 1B". It'd be a more significant undertaking.

My thinking is although I think it would be neat to have a grocery in the old Toby Keith's space right outside of Streetcar Stop #1, these 309 Vine guys seem to have real vision, so if they're the first to recognize an opportunity and seize it, good for them.

^I'll throw this out there: A great school system would have more of an impact to increase the city's population than lowering incoming taxes ever will.

They are probably thinking parks are the most popular thing in the city that people might support a tax for, so if they could set up a dedicated funding stream for that, (and I know this is only 25% maintenance) it would free up money in the general fund for other things. Cincinnatians love parks and libraries. Disagree- I think 2014-2015 might mark the high point in a business cycle and there may be some economic turmoil ahead near the presidential election. Also I recall hearing there are still projected deficits in years ahead even though there's a surplus this year? It just seems like the nature of surpluses is that they are fleeting...

Do share! Perhaps on the "Beyond the streetcar" thread?

Have there ever been any proposals for light rail tunnels on the Kentucky side? Under Devou Park, or into the side of the plateau where the airport is located? It might be worth it to get to CVG faster instead of shadowing the interstate to pick up a handful of suburban riders. Also an intriguing possibility is workers reverse commuting on light rail from the city to the distribution centers employment cluster around the airport, if you could solve the "last mile" problem by the airport.

Where do you envision that going? Would that make it into Covington as far as Pike St.? Would that make it over to CVG somehow?

What about the all the surface lots along Third Street? Wouldn't those be easier to develop? Or would it really be easier to do a public private partnership to do this first? Really interesting to see the balance of incentives that spur development and the misaligned incentives that prevent development. Not quite socialism but not quite a free market either.

Yeah I don't know about the "pull through" parking. Would rather see the first floor office or retail to help with street activation. Hope it doesn't set a precedent or preclude the development of the adjacent surface lot if an entrance is on the side.

Actually after walking around Mt. Adams I think the terminal would be better suited in a lot near the Ida St. Bridge than where I had it in the first diagram. It'd be just slightly less central to the Mt. Adams business district on St. Gregory St., but would have more treetop clearance almost immediately due to the steep drop-off, and also where I had it before might not have cleared the Ida St. Bridge itself. This line would travel over the Hixon building slightly.

The proposed gondola would follow this tree line into downtown. Taken from the Ida St. Bridge Close up OTR Cincy-henge Maybe this concept seriously "gets off the ground" someone could take a drone-video of the guideway path to drum up support. (with the proper permits & permissions of course.)

Cincinnati preservation collective looking for like minded applicants to the Conservation Board: