thebillshark

Most of you have already seen my proposal for the Uptown Four. That idea started off as thinking about a streetcar route for Uptown and eventually ended up as a frequent transit bus network that connects to the Cincinnati Streetcar at University Plaza. On this network there would be ten minute or less headways between vehicles (including the streetcar) and fare structure would be the same as the streetcar, $1 for two hours, with free transfers between lines. I have been posting about this idea on news articles about Uptown developments with this file: http://goo.gl/awheu8 Anyway this weekend I made a map and list that shows the recently announced and in progress developments Uptown that this network would serve. They are marked by the blue circles on the map: Item Project Description Link 1Clifton MarketCo-op grocery store https://cliftonmarket.com/news/b3b7f56c01 2Gaslight Manor117 Luxury Apartmentshttp://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2014/12/17/17-million-upscale-apartment-project-coming-to.html 3Gilbane W McMillan St. Apts.180 apartments, mixed use building w parking garagehttp://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2014/12/10/council-approves-rezoning-of-site-near-uc-for.html?page=all 4Fairfeild Inn & Suites115 room hotelhttp://www.cincinnati.com/story/money/business/2014/08/29/usquare-uptown-hotel/14758121/ 5101 East Corry108 apartmentshttp://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/blog/2014/11/25-million-apartment-project-coming-to-uptown.html?page=all 6VP3147 apartmentshttp://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/morning_call/2014/06/30m-complex-contributes-to-cincinnati.html?page=all 7Auburn Ave Medical building50,000 sq. ft. medical buildinghttp://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/print-edition/2014/11/14/mount-auburn-a-lost-neighborhood-gets-new-love.html?page=all 8Wellington Place renovate 60 Apts & build 200 newhttp://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/print-edition/2014/11/14/mount-auburn-a-lost-neighborhood-gets-new-love.html?page=all 9Christ Hospital Joint and Spine Center355,000 sq. ft. Hospital expansionhttp://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2014/11/11/exclusive-ceo-leads-hard-hat-tour-of-cincinnati.html 10New Anna Louise Inn/Women's Drop InnSocial serviceshttp://www.wlwt.com/news/new-womens-drop-inn-center-under-construction/28151548 11Avondale Townhomes8 townhomeshttp://www.urbancincy.com/2014/11/uptown-leaders-hoping-2-4m-northern-townhomes-project-accelerates-avondales-rebirth/ 12TCB Avondale apartments and grocery72 apartments and groceryhttp://www.cincinnati-oh.gov/planning/about-city-planning-buildings/city-planning-commission/feb-6-2015-packet/ 13TCB Apartments portfolio of properties received historic tax creditshttp://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/gallery/135081?r=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.bizjournals.com%2Fcincinnati%2Fnews%2F2014%2F12%2F19%2Fgreater-cincinnati-projects-awarded-5-5-million-in.html 14Green Man ParkNew park being built by citizen volunteershttp://www.urbancincy.com/2014/11/new-green-man-park-to-transform-formerly-vacant-lot-in-peebles-corner/ 15Towne Apartments96 apartmentshttp://www.cincinnati-oh.gov/planning/about-city-planning-buildings/city-planning-commission/feb-6-2015-packet/ 16Evanston homes 40 single family homes rehabbed by Port Authorityhttp://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/blog/2015/01/port-uthority-hopes-evanston-rehab-shows-it-can.html 17University Station Phase 2 Hotel & Officehttp://www.cbre.us/o/cincinnati/AssetLibrary/University_LR.pdf

Wow this looks like the Banks project under construction in downtown Cincinnati. I wonder if they will get it done before Cincinnati too!

If we used the existing track stub-outs to go up Vine St. as planned couldn't we get up to Corry St. at least for cheap? Isn't some of the design work complete? What about the dreaded environmental impact study? Do you think we could get that done for $20-$30 million? That would be small potatoes compared to some of the proposed amounts handed out to projects around the country in the recent federal budget. I thought the $50 million pulled by the governor would have been for additonal length Uptown such as getting to the Zoo. Maybe our goal should just to be to get up the hill on the cheap?

You know it's why it's that way? Because of the stupid double-back alignment required to go up Vine Street, which I bet will never be used, we had to slim-down the stop -- one of the most important stops where many people will be burdened with groceries -- in order to make the broadway turn onto Elder. This was really bad planning. Well, there's some open space behind it if they want to spruce it up more. Maybe add some covered benches and a Portland Loo? Paul Grether mentioned on a tour that once they build the Uptown Connector this stop will see x2 the streetcars of any other stop, because it will be the last stop on the OTR/downtown loop for streetcars going up the hill and the first stop on the OTR/downtown loop for streetcars coming down the hill. BTW have any of you guys seen the small "secret" streetcar stop they built out up by the MOF? I assume it's for changing drivers.

That's a really cool picture with the building reflections.

Yeah I take back my earlier comments up thread. They should go ahead with it.

1. In this redesign they do away with the new structure above the roofs of Grammer's buildings. I like that. 2. I don't understand what would be so terrible about a U shaped building? Seems like it would add some diversity to the OTR streetscape. 3. Like I said before, no matter what happens they shouldn't be touching any historic buildings until the new developments are a sure thing. I would be mostly against touching anything historic in general. 4. I recall hearing about some past drama surrounding these owners, the Wades, in various business ventures, but I'm not at all familiar with the backstory. Based on past history are these developments likely to happen? Also ProkNo5 I don't understand how adding infill development, especially if it's aimed at some to these vacant lots, would threaten OTR's draw for historic tourism in any way. Would seeing new buildings alongside the old really completely ruin anyone's experience, especially given all the gaps there are to fill in? It seems to me the denser and more vibrant the neighborhood street life is, the bigger draw it would become.

I think developing the lot spaces into some revenue generating development is a great idea, but it raises a lot of questions. Would the Library get public backlash for straying from its core mission and engaging in real estate development? Would they be under a lot of pressure to keep the housing affordable that a private developer wouldn't experience? Would there be conflicts of interests regarding other nearby future developments, leading to unintended consequences, with the Library exerting political influence to try to protect its investment? What happens in thirty years when the development is making less money and the mechanical items etc. for the development need to be overhauled? It's probably nothing that can't be solved by some Public Private Partnership led by 3CDC. But one can see the kind of complicated issues that UC is experiencing with the Emery building. EDIT: just saw jmicha's post about selling off the land. That might be the best way to avoid issues like these.

That's a great idea, and original enough that it might make some national publications. I'm seeing some "This library lets bookworms move right in" clickbait headlines. Seriously, the main public library would be a way better amenity for apartments than a little workout room with a treadmill and a TV.

$550,000 Urban Expansion single family home about to go online. Urban Sites is about to sell 4 properties to developers. Well that's interesting.

I don't mind any of the new stuff built in OTR so far. I like the deep dark red color of the new building on Walnut. The Gateway garage could have a lot more attractive frontage along 12th street but at the time that was built they had no idea if redevelopment would be successful or not.

On the other hand if the streets remain one way maybe they can dedicate the lanes someday.

I'm not sure a majority of people "would prefer to drive everywhere all the time". A lot of the popularity of the suburbs is simply due to it being the default option for people who want to be "normal" (as opposed to those hipsters/yuppies/etc. that choose city life). Not to mention the government subsidies steering property developers and homeowners in that direction. Things are changing very quickly, and I'm not saying that it's going to turn everyone into an "urbanist", but it's going to be a really, really big change. That's why a qualified that part of the statement with "A lot". I'm sure the majority of people would do whatever society makes easiest. In fact, I think we should do away with the term "motorist." It conjures up an old timey image of a guy with goggles, scarf and oil can, and it implies a degree of enthusiasm and expertise about cars that simply isn't there amongst the driving public. That's why there's hamsters and other unrelated things going on in car commercials. That said, there's a whole lot of people who view the suburban layout and automotive domination as progress and convenience just like they view fast food and TV dinners as symbols of the same. I was actually going to work this point into my original post but couldn't think of an easy way to do it. Another point is that success will breed success, so it will make more people want to move downtown the more bustling and active they see it is. The same principle will work for attracting people from other areas, we've seen all the positive national press we've recieved from the things we've done so far. And I don't want to diminish any accomplishments so far but there's still a long long way to go. So there's a lot of reasons to think our momentum will carry us forward to redevelop all of OTR and that it won't stall out. My original comment that sparked this discussion was just offhandedly pointing out that it would really stink if the growth did stall out.

A follow on: the percentage of people that care or even think about urbanism and urban issues is a miniscule minority. The number of people living in the basin urban core are a minority of the people within Cincinnati city limits. The number of people people living within the city limits (even throw in Norwood, Newport, and Covington too) are a minority in the metro area. If the mass market were to ever truly embraced the urban living trend, things would change in downtown and OTR so quickly that it would be simply impossible to debate every project, facade, alleyway, and architectural and landscape decision like we do on this forum. Attracting people to the city is like craft beer trying to grow its market share against Budweiser and Miller. Despite all the hype, the craft beer market share is only at 8%. What will the final market share be?

Please explain what you mean by this. Simple. The majority of people in our metro region live in the suburbs. A lot of them actively love the suburbs and are vocal about fearing urban areas and would prefer to drive everywhere all the time. A lot of them can't simply imagine living in an urban area. Only a certain percentage is going to be willing to give urban living a try, despite the constant drumbeat and hype about the back to the city movement. What is that percentage? I would say no one really knows, especially when factors like schools are considered. We are slowly and steadily growing with a trickle migrants coming in from other areas, the new GE facility is a good catch that will attract some, but we are not as strong of an economic magnet as the faster growing places around the country. OTR is a big place with a few hundred abandoned buildings still. Take a walk north of Liberty to see the extent of this. Will there be enough demand to rehab all the abandoned buildings? What about Brighton and the West End? I think there will be enough demand for it all to come back to life, but all we know for sure is there is more demand than there is supply at the current moment.

This building is huge! Renovating it is going to be a big project on its own. Wonder when it will happen. Hope it's soon. Really need to complete the Vine St. corridor south of Liberty. Seems like it would be easier and more palatable to spread out development and market things as "OTR near" if we had a better transit system. Also, let's hope the region's population and economy can support the filling out of OTR in the first place which everyone on here seems to have taken as a given!

Agree with everything you said. However in a recent development I wonder if Messer is interested in moving to the remaining Banks office site now? http://www.cincinnati.com/story/money/2015/01/21/messer-construction-looking-to-move/22109203/ "The company wants the new site to have high visibility and easy access from major interstates, easy access to community amenities and services, and be located in a vibrant or improving neighborhood. Also important is safety, having open space for collaboration, and ample parking, according to the statement." Do those tea leaves read like the Banks? I bet they do Oakley/Hyde Park, Oakley Station. I would not rule out Downtown. The Banks has no available product. GE is taking the entire building, yes? They will get some sticker shock. Have to think whatever they are leasing now is cheap. It would be a brand new building, but there is an available office pad between the Freedom Center and Great American Ballpark. Good point that Oakley Station is still looking too.

Agree with everything you said. However in a recent development I wonder if Messer is interested in moving to the remaining Banks office site now? http://www.cincinnati.com/story/money/2015/01/21/messer-construction-looking-to-move/22109203/ "The company wants the new site to have high visibility and easy access from major interstates, easy access to community amenities and services, and be located in a vibrant or improving neighborhood. Also important is safety, having open space for collaboration, and ample parking, according to the statement." Do those tea leaves read like the Banks?

How much danger is that Arcade building in of being torn down? Could preservationists in Cincinnati such as the Cincinnati Preservation Collective help?

Man they are really moving forward with the Eastern Corridor torpedoes be damned aren't they?

I posted last weekend my idea for a 12th and Vine Plaza in the General OTR thread. I wanted to develop this idea but since most of the land involves 3CDC I'll post it here this time. Here's my new ideas for the area: A few notes: 1. The new building fronting the plaza comes out farther towards Vine St. than in my previous sketch. The building frontage facing the plaza would be a chance to design an eye capturing facade and would have to be something special to keep up with the buildings across Vine St. 2. Added outdoor dining for Senate if they want it & punch a hole in the wall for a door. 3. New Residential mixed use building behind plaza on Jackson St. 3. Didn't quite know how to handle the interior of that block north of the plaza, but assumed they need to keep vehicle access for deliveries and moving vans and stuff. 4. New residential mixed use building in the parking lot next to Trideca. 4. Multi story Garage added over on Walnut St. with an office wrap. This garage would be for the new developments pictured within a few blocks to use. I think OTR-ers with a personal vehicle should be OK with the idea storing it a block or two away (instead of immediately adjacent to your house,) and eventually OK with it being a streetcar stop or two away. 5. Block long pedestrian ally behind the garage, with new developments at 13th and Jackson and 12th and Jackson. 6. New Residential mixed use building in the Bakersfield/1215 Wine Bar parking lot. Maintained a pedestrian ally that could cut through to Republic someday or that could be used during events.

I wonder if they'll ever build anything tall in the lot to the east on the land going downhill to Culvert and Eggleston. Might hurt the view for the non-corner units in this building. Do people have any recourse if something like that happens and hurts your property value?

They should at least do something like that with roof parking for the Corryville Kroger rebuild.

http://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/blog/2013/08/is-banks-phase-iia-saving-room-for-a.html?page=all Me too. I think it's absolutely ridiculous there's parking on top of Toby Keith's in Phase 1 of the banks. More parking atop a sea of parking, killing the space available for actual humans who provide life to the city and are the taxpayers and potential customers for the restaurants and retail. And they wonder why their efforts to build a neighborhood have struggled so far. Didn't I hear the underground garage was one of the largest in North America or something? Should be sufficient for all parking needs.

The entire appeal to me of putting a public space in that area, though, is to give it a focal point. As I mentioned before, the 12th and Vine intersection already naturally feels like the heart of OTR south of Liberty. The streetcar and Redbike confirm this and make it even more so. A public space here would really provide a visual cue to someone arriving on the streetcar that "I am arriving in the commercial center of this neighborhood" as opposed to briefly glimpsing all the Vine St. Restaurants as the train rolls on to the next stop. I think all the activity would ensure the space is used and placing it on the intersection would give it a longer reach and visibility down both Vine and 12th streets as opposed to the Bakersfield north lot where it would feel like it's for the one block of Vine St. Only.