WindyBuckeye

Stark is really good at fulfilling grand plans downtown, see Nucleus, (sarcasm). How is Pesht so different than this grand plan he also had for the lakefront in his teen years?

92% occupancy Q2 2019

And why do you say this? Just curious.

Well put

Yeah a driving range is never going to be pretty. Most Top Golfs are going to be highly visible in wherever location they're in. It is what it is, but I think it was a good location choice for access and agree I like that it ins't too close to downtown.

Driving ranges may not be the prettiest thing in the world, but Top Golf's are an awesome attraction for all. I think this is a good use of the space and the location is ideal.

Very pumped to have a Top Golf so close to downtown. It is going to do very well in the area.

I think you’re just doing this to get a rise out of people now.

He has had a rough stretch but was awesome until the All Star Break. The Joe Borowski and Wickman days were tough ones.

Nailed It!

Welcome Cle.com poster

They're not.

I think once the building is finished it will look better. I wonder if the stripes will light up?

From the prior week as the Scranton design was tabled and going to be redone.

Once the lakefront has some proven success by Browns Stadium and the river front projects are wrapped up in the next 5ish years hopefully.

Burke can close but in due time. I also think Stark tends to ask for too much a lot of times and that’s why he isn’t favored too highly.

Cleveland trust. I have provided counter points on why Burke isn’t a focus currently. It just instantly goes back to Burke Burke Burke must go. And yes if you want to see the lakefron development planned around browns stadium see the recent few pages on the proposed developments around the stadium including several housing units in the Lakefront Developments post. And if you think that is me scolding you then good luck with your own thin skin. You have a focused opinion that many have countered with their own points first it was population loss which was countered and then it was investment which was countered. I think we all agree Burke would eventually be better as something else. However, it is down in the priorities list with all of the current projects in the more near pipeline that are going to vastly improve the lake and river access before Burke. The dead area around browns stadium is not due to Burke but luckily that’s about the change. i want to have a productive discussion so I’ll be more relaxed and keep to myself but you have to admit the other developments happening around the river and lake are gonna be great for the area.

So calling people uninformed and lazy is just in kind? Whatever. Your reality currently is no one else’s. Best of luck to you in your Burke closing endeavor. We will enjoy Dock 30 and the future other great developments being done to the lake and river front before Burke is talked about more. The area around browns stadium is about to look a lot different. Name one public place people hang out by the lake? How about edgewater? One thing I would like answered is how would closing Burke finance all the infill projects?

You're acting like a know it all again Cleveland Trust and your tone again is why some can't take your argument serious. You have a strong bias here and it shows. If you show some wiggle room with your arguments, when others have when they respond to you, then there can be a solid productive discussion. I also really enjoyed how you were upset by someone insulting you and then you proceed to insult the whole forum board. Good work there.

No problemo. We all care about The City deeply. I think just need a little more patience and see where the next few years take us before looking deeply into Burke.

What about Cleveland's present investment in the river and lakefront? Will that not pay off due to the airport? All your absolute statements are frustrating as is your know it all tone in most of your posts. I know more people leaving Chicago due to the cost of living, even cities like Chicago suffer population loss. I think its the crime and real estate taxes causing this, but anyways all cities have problems. For some reason you feel the downtown airport is ruining our city and doesn't attract 20/30 years olds due to this, another false statement. People love the metroparks, edgewater, and the towpath trail with more parks to come. Irishtown is going to be amazing for the area and so will Dock 30. Then we shall see where Burke goes. All the items coming before Burke is going to improve the city's image more in the short term. I would love to see a more in depth plan by you using actual numbers on how improving the airport land IN Cleveland would increase population and investment in the whole region only due to this airport closing and that nothing currently being done will increase population or investment. I feel like we are going in circles with discussion, so this will be the end of it for me. There is no true useful information coming out of this, but just the same discussion as always with no clear stated end plans. I do think in 15-20 years we will look at this discussion as nonsense in relation to Cleveland losing their sports teams, having severe population loss, and losing investment. Good day and for your sake I hope there is news on Burke in the not too distant future that will please you.

You just changed your reasoning from population decline to now investment. Have you seen the investment recently in the city of Cleveland all while there is still a downtown airport? Astonishing. Also you may know some people, but I don't know many who are being lured to live in Baltimore, Milwaukee, or Detroit. Sure Chicago has, but that is a completely different market comparison and it is not due to the airport. Audidave - here is the article I believe you are talking about. https://www.aopa.org/news-and-media/all-news/2019/february/14/could-meigs-make-a-comeback

And we are not looking for a comeback due to the downtown airport? Ok, got it.

Cleburger was right though, airport had nothing to do with the decline. You answered it yourself.

Pretty sure Chicago, Milwaukee, and Baltimore population declined last year. Also Detroit was until last year. Detroit's image is worse among peers compared to Cleveland. Baltimore's isn't too great either and a downtown airport is never discussed with this.