PHS14

I've stopped using the station to go to the airport. Too many kids asking "whats in the bag?" I figured it wouldn't be much longer until my laptop got jacked.... Wise move because one day one of those 'hood rats is going to take your bag. Who needs the harassment? I've been harassed on the Red Line for no reason other than that I'm white. I wouldn't go that far...but I do fly alot and I noticed the same cast of characters eyeing me up. Without my computer and gear I have no issues taking the Red Line. Who are these cast of characters? Not sure what ''go that far'' referred to but I guess after having lived in a big city with big city where grab and runs are common and I was harassed on the Red Line for being white, quoting the nasty-skanky black dude passenger. Anyway, the garbage on the slope between the street level and station at W 98th can be incredible. This being from the riders waiting for buses and whatnot above the platform. Regardless, RTA cops need to patrol the stations, parking lots and be seen on the trains much more.

I've stopped using the station to go to the airport. Too many kids asking "whats in the bag?" I figured it wouldn't be much longer until my laptop got jacked.... The RTA police presence at the main turnstiles down there is a bit too much. There should be cops riding all the lines so we can see the''m more often instead of them thinking there's ''action'' when some out of towner or infrequent rider messed up their travel card purchase. RTA should have installed more the Tower City turnstiles in its system or at least do more fare enforcement. I recall a few years back though there was a problem because too many African American teens were being caught not paying, so RTA backed-off. The reasoning was that these kids having a record of some sort was going to prevent them having futures. Damn shame... Meanwhile, the RTA cops I've seen are deployed mainly at Tower City where groups of them are there mainly socializing with each other. I can never understand this because Tower City is a controlled, safe environment, with turnstiles manned by RTA employees. Some cops seem to go over to W.25 to check tickets when all the kids come through there in afternoons after school. I have seen some spot ticket checks on Red Line cars occasionally. Other than that, I hardly ever see RTA cops patrolling any other station.

I've stopped using the station to go to the airport. Too many kids asking "whats in the bag?" I figured it wouldn't be much longer until my laptop got jacked.... Wise move because one day one of those 'hood rats is going to take your bag. Who needs the harassment? I've been harassed on the Red Line for no reason other than that I'm white.

I agree with Cudell--there are already quite a few recently rehabbed apartments there, and plenty more land to build new. I feel bad for those pioneers on the other side of the tracks on Detroit--they need some neighbors! Cleveland needs to get the crime and gang issue resolved around Cudell. Transit riders exit at W 98th with Cudell across the street or I should say the now infamous Cudell. I lived at 98th/Detroit several years and a major appeal was using the Rapid for work and night classes downtown. Tons of Section 8 then so I can't imagine how bad it is around there now.

Of course Cinci's streetcar is going to have optimistic hours. Let's see how it goes down there with this line. Costs and operating expenses have already grown. This streetcar is not extensive and is reliant on downtown users only. In other words, one has to drive or already be downtown, park and pay to use the streetcar. Wonder how many people will be on it late-night let alone during the day.

I would take the Waterfront Line through the CBD, north-south on E 9th or close to Playhouse Square, back to the Green, Blue and Red Lines. Cinci's opening a $133 million streetcar in September. Not sure how that's going to go but it would need to start expanding and producing strong ridership pretty quickly but Cleveland already has light-rail looping around 3/4ths of its CBD, just doesn't cross though it. Kind of odd.

Haven't read this thread much but doesn't Cleveland's lack of standing as a rock town with fewer big name acts coming in have to do the city's admission or ticket tax?

Most likely it is at play. Public transit is and has been for quite a while looked at as a pariah. if you can't afford a car, you can't afford Crocker Park is the mentality of these places. Still say that having Tower City's rail connection did not help that retail center and its grandiose expansion plans. We shall see as there is a push to get people to use RTA more and the catering to the millennials who claim they want transit. Hell, suburban malls didn't like checks with Cleveland addresses on them let alone want to deal with the Cleveland transit users.

Should now read: Steve Harvey Wrong-Way or Steve Harvey Can't Read Way.

The plot for the AA garden has been purchased and there has been a ground breaking for the first phase. But there is nothing there but a flower bed! I pray its completed before my grand parent die as they live across from the Gardens. What is lovely? The cultural Gardens in their entirety? I know you cannot posibly describe the plot of land set aside for the AA cultural Garden "lovely"! The monument cannot simply be one dimensional. It should be something that represents the past, present and future. I think it's a bad idead. I don't get the need for this in Public Square. Put it in the African American cultural garden on Martin Luther King Jr Drive if there has to be one. You are suggesting altering the plans for Public Square now for this? What is a bad idea? an African American monument or the location? Why shouldn't an AA monument be on display at the heart of metro Cleveland? The location. This is what the Cultural Gardens were designed for. Why shouldn't any other race, religion or cultural then have a monument on display in the heart of metro Cleveland then? Who in particular are you comparing Mr. Morgan?

Cleveland has been built my many races, cultures and religions. That's why there are the cultural gardens; all the different races, cultures and religions that built Cleveland.

Another great idea would be to replace the '80s trash receptacles around the Rock Hall and anywhere else where they still bring the streetscape down.

I think it's a bad idead. I don't get the need for this in Public Square. Put it in the African American cultural garden on Martin Luther King Jr Drive if there has to be one. You are suggesting altering the plans for Public Square now for this?

I'm not crazy about the sky blossoms either. However, the mall needs some enhancement to attract people and retain its grandeur. The senior games ''flame'' has worn out its welcome as it completely mars the current vista of the mall. It's looking worn-out anyway. Rehab it and move it elsewhere.

But what about the E&Y workers who do live near the lines on the East Side, or who are a short drive to one of the Blue/Green line lots? Why aren't these using the WFL for the through ride near their homes? The Blue and Green lines are easily accessible, by foot, bike or car, to a wide swath of SE Cleveland and the east/SE suburbs, with a significant number of apt/multi-unit dwellers at Shaker Sq and along the Van Aken line who are steps away from a Rapid stop. Wait for a WFL train!? They run every 15 minutes all day and into the night (last train leaving South Harbor at 12:05a every night). Even better, riders can have or learn the trains' simple schedule and arrive at FEB station right before their trains. The result? No waiting! Inconvenient transfer? How so? The WFL-to-Red Line transfer could hardly be easier; it's a level, short walk and totally temperature controlled (you can wait on large, old-style train station wooden pews inside glass-enclosed, well-lit, toasty warm areas for your train) which is great news during those subfreezing Cleveland winter days. Compare this transfer to those rail-to-rail transfers in other cities where people have to endure long stairs or escalators and/or walks through long, sometimes poorly lit, dank and unheated tunnels. Spoiled Clevelanders often like to rationalize why they don't use transit rather than simply using it, when they have it much easier than other cities. This plus the fact that rail-to-rail transfers are common for other places, so why should it be seen as so difficult here? Also, while WFL trains depart every 15 minutes, rush hour Red Line trains depart for the West Side every 8 to 10 minutes and, currently, eastbound Red Line rush hour trains are every 10 minutes at least until the Red Line's Tower City center track is repaired (or maybe longer given the growth of ridership in University Circle in recent years). The trip from FEB to Tower City is about 5 minutes. From TC to UC/Little Italy, it's 14-16 minutes. Again, what's so inconvenient about this? WFL-to-bus? I know of at least one E&Y employee who transfers from the WFL to the #26 bus to Lakewood every day... and loves it. Some other E&Yers transfer to other Public Square bus lines including the HL. There's a long escalator up to the Public Sq level through, once again, warm, cozy, and safe Tower City mall, with the square itself only steps away. During inclement weather days, some HL riders wait inside TC's grand/beautiful portico until their bus comes. Again, where's the inconvenience? On the surface this is true, but misleading. Even though the referendum passed by the voters 2-to-1 in 1953 was, in fact, for the subway loop you mention, planners clearly projected a University Circle connection line branching off the loop to be constructed either in tandem or soon after the subway loop was built. For this reason, planners called for the subway tubes to be stacked along E. 13th Street with the Playhouse Square station to be built on 2 levels (note the 8th Image in the link, below, which is cutaway graphic for the 13th Street leg of the planned subway with the stacked tubes). This would allow for tunnel turnouts to be built into the north and southbound tunnels allowing for a grade-separated junction for a U. Circle branch; it probably would have been at or near Chester Ave. See the the 5th Image link, below, especially the 1955 map plan of the Praeger-Cutting-DeLeuw Plan B subway proposal. http://clevelandhistorical.org/items/show/361#.VmaCXPm-2m4 That's because of the heavy losses of downtown offices and, hence, jobs due to closures, mergers, and simply corporate and company losses either to the suburbs or to other cities and states. Standard Oil/SOHIO/BP which had thousands of employees downtown is, now, totally gone; merged and moved to Chicago. And that's only 1 example. What about Eaton which high-tailed it to the Highlands a few years ago? However, despite bottoming out in the early 2000s, rail ridership has steadily climbed, I suspect, because of residential and entertainment/restaurant growth downtown and in-city neighborhoods that are walkable to rail stations, including Ohio City, University Circle/Little Italy, Detroit Shoreway and Shaker Square. Thus while the park n' ride suburban commuter has declined in recent decades, there's been some growth among the more traditional type rapid transit riders who feed into rail stations with their feet. There's your answer: far fewer workers downtown than in the past. Cleveland's sprawl is not helping its local transit system. I use transit and have all my life so 15 minutes here and there is not a big deal with a transfer thrown in but to people not used to transit, it's a pain. Traffic is not an issue in Cleveland so people opt to drive and park downtown for work. Transit has to be convenient in cities like Cleveland; residents always have the option to drive especially if a rail station is not close enough to warrant its use.

Let's take care of Cleveland's front lawn 1st. This is a first impression location for visitors and the past few decades has not helped. Strong core will create tax dollars and opportunity for neighborhoods. Cleveland's appeal as a place to visit and work is gaining ground. What type of neighborhood investments are you thinking of besides the ubiquitous ''roads'' investment or ''job training'' programs which at one time were also known as public schools. I certainly don't consider the new version of PS a replacement with a slightly different park.

You're not opposed to development around stations?? That's good! I hope you're also not opposed to people eating food, drinking water and breathing oxygen. They're all quite necessary. If we're going to be serious about increasing the utility of our rail lines, then we must purse the cost-effective extensions that the FTA is willing to fund. The Red Line extension is the only studied extension in the Greater Cleveland area that the feds are willing to invest in. And if we're truly serious in Greater Cleveland about addressing University Circle's worsening traffic, or addressing the city's second-worst ranking in the USA in poverty, then we have to reduce the spatial disconnect between jobs and job-seekers. The Red Line extension will make a big dent in that. The Red Line isn't going to shut down, and any shutdown of the Blue and Green lines isn't going to last long. GCRTA can't afford to pay back the feds for the 10's of millions they've invested in federal funds over the past 20 years on the rail system. And by the way, the rail system has already been in operation for decades. The oldest section turned 100 years old in 2013 and the newest section, the Waterfront Line (which wasn't shut down, emphasizing the durability of rail), turns 20 years old next year. It will be around for many decades more. Frankly, I am having difficulty understanding what your objections are and why. They aren't justified by the issues and data. My comment about TOD was in response to you stating that I made a blanket statement against TOD by not wanting the transit hub on the W 3rd lots. Eating, drinking and breathing are all quite necessary but TOD is not to Cleveland's RTA since it is in the nascent stage of addressing this. The WFL was funded by the city; leave it to the White Administration to build a train to nowhere. There were no federal $$s involved? Even Cinci'streetcar landed some Fed money. So, RTA has never done a rail expansion in its 40 years since the airport extension was CTS. So, I question RTA's trustworthiness and object to Euclid extension because it's based on assumptions the area will attract riders. Bottom line: I love transit systems and want Cleveland's to expand and attract locals and new residents to use it. I just want it to get done right and any objections or issues raised.

Similar objections made when the AmeriTrust tower was supposed to be built with its parking garage on the northeast part of these parcels. A separate office high-rise structure was proposed for the location you mention. Objections were that there would be a ''canyon'' issue on W 3rd. Of course, that was 25 years ago and your point is still valid.

Why is there there a fear of crime related to transit (esp the rapid) being extended into the suburbs or in this case Little Italy?

I don't have a problem with the development around stations just the push for Red Line extension to Euclid. Rail lines do not last for decades; the WFL was closed and, as you provided, the light-rail and red line are in jeopardy all together.

Never said the Red Line has little impact on Ohio City, just that it didn't lead the development there and is not the reason for the development. The issue at-hand was bringing the Red Line into Euclid with the hope that it will lead development. There isn't a great track record for RTA on this point and for the City. Red Line has 1 downtown stop; the Waterfront Line has stops but are not useful for day to day use since, in RTA's wisdom, it dead-ends the line at the Muni Lot. Maybe if Cleveland develops some serious traffic issues the demand for RTA use will increase and people will pay for better and more extensive service. No, I can't argue the point. The Red Line has not spurred much development. Uptown is the most substantial and, hopefully, it will be followed this spring by the ground breaking for Intesa right which will be next to the new LI station. In Ohio City there has also been proposed the mixed-use retail/apartment building at Lorain/W. 25 intersection backing up to a rebuilt Red Line stop... We know that Cleveland went on the cheap and killed off the downtown subway in the 1950s (and similarly 1990s) which would have led to a dual-hub type extension up the Euclid corridor to Univ. Circle. But it didn't happen and Cleveland, like a most American mid-sized metro cities, opted for less expensive rapid transit routing (along RR ROWs, freeway medians or, simply, along street surfaces like old-time streetcars (hello Baltimore)) without a through-the-core subway route (ie, Denver, even with it's projected 100-mile new rail network has pretty much done the same thing as Cleveland in this regard). And of course as we've seen in Cleveland, wide freight ROW's with their industrial siding customers, thwarts much residential and/or mixed-use development. Little Italy-University Circle, W. 25 and some other stations, like W. 65, Cudell and W. 117 are the exceptions where the Rapid lines do, in fact, run close to populated neighborhoods... and we're finally seeing some TOD development/plans at these locations. Hopefully we'll more. But we need to build upon the strengths of the Rapid we've got (in the context of the region where it exists) and not what should have been built. Park-n-ride has been a successful formula for the Red line. Of course, I'm hoping a Euclid extension can spur some pedestrian-oriented development along it's 6.5 mile route, but even if it immediately doesn't, I don't think this should be a deal breaker. The park-n-ride aspect of such a line and the positive impacts it would have for congested University Circle, Downtown, W. 25 and even the airport, would make the line well worth it even though, according to KJP, such a line doesn't score well because of the small amount of walkability it may be projected to generate. ... and as for the Waterfront Line, I didn't say that it's super useful as it currently exists (or more importantly, the situation that currently surrounds its stations), but that it's stations are considered to be downtown... and as for the WFL being useful, I can't explain why the vast majority of workers in the buildings close to and accessible to the WFL line aren't using it... I personally think they're foolish for not doing so, but to each his/her own... You can't convince me that workers in the new 20-story E&Y office tower should thumb their nose at WFL trains when a station stop is literally across the street from their building. The availability of cheap parking (for now, until FEB Phase 3 gets built) is not a reasonable excuse in my book. Ditto for workers at places like North Point, the Federal building or City Hall, to name a few others. The WFL, as it exists today, is not conducive for workers that are not living on or near the lines on the east side. A worker, even at E&Y tower, has to wait for the WFL train, do an inconvenient transfer and pay an additional fare, unless a monthly or all day pass is on-hand, wait for the red line train, ride to, say, brookpark, then drive to name-your-suburb here...just drive, traffic and gas prices are not an issue. Can't imagine this daily routine esp with RTAs iffy service. It's good to know the past so it's not repeated in the future. The 1950s subway was not a link to Univeristy Circle; the Dual Hub concept is a 1980s creation that ultimately let to the HealthLine, not a rail line. The 1950s subway plan was an underground loop with stops at Playhouse Square and E9th/Superior etc. The key point is the powers that be at the time thwarted what the citizens wanted, and Higbee's had a hand in killing the subway as well. The park-n-rides are useful to a point but those stations are the west side have far fewer daily cars than the past. I think a Red Line extension to Euclid is a mistake. If anything, we need to build out the light-rail system and Cleveland's current TOD is at least some progress in that area. I wonder how many techies will take the Red Line to and from work?

A downtown waterfront line loop would be much more than cool and fun. It would offer direct CBD workers, visitors and tourists access from Gateway to the Flats. How about traversing Playhouse Sq or E 9/Euclid to the East Bank Flats on foot? Not exactly convenient but then again the rapid transit lines were never really convenient. The line/s already exist; they just need to be tweaked to go through the CBD. That's not possible with the Red Line.

Never said the Red Line has little impact on Ohio City, just that it didn't lead the development there and is not the reason for the development. The issue at-hand was bringing the Red Line into Euclid with the hope that it will lead development. There isn't a great track record for RTA on this point and for the City. Red Line has 1 downtown stop; the Waterfront Line has stops but are not useful for day to day use since, in RTA's wisdom, it dead-ends the line at the Muni Lot. Maybe if Cleveland develops some serious traffic issues the demand for RTA use will increase and people will pay for better and more extensive service.

I agree wholeheartedly... there would be great benefit. Laketran has always expressed interest in cooperating with a Red Line extension/terminus in Euclid. There are several potential uses in addition to "regular" work commuting; special events, overnight parking for those interested in using this as part of an intermodal strategy (i.e. short trips from the airport - right now I park at the Brookpark station, but if a Euclid Red Line park and ride existed, I would consider using it). However, the amount of money this would take would be astronomical compared to the funding received. This would likely have to be an issue for voters. If it came down to a vote, I find it unlikely that the citizenry would vote for an infrastructure change that not everyone would use. Citizens have voted for more extensive transit for the city and region. The derailed downtown subway in the 1950s approved by voters and the vote to create RTA in the 1970s. RTA was the empty promises entity for a regional rail system. Today, I'm not sure voters would trust the RTA as there is a stigma with it and urban transit in general. The ''there's no benefit to me'' mentality is much more common as people don't use transit as they once did. When RTA was created there were upwards of 120 million riders; today, maybe 48 million.