Woodward

http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=100753 It's post #11 in this thread on the skyscraperpage forums. I checked out the city-data site too and didn't find a 45228 zip....

What is California? I don't understand your question.

I was shocked, after reviewing a listing of the nation's highest household income zip codes, to learn that metro Cincinnati's is actually within city limits. I'd just automatically assumed that almost every midwestern city's richest neighborhoods were small suburbs. The 45228 zip code has a household income of just under $183k, quite impressive. Ohio's other showing on the list was the Cleveland suburb of Gates Mills, which btw is less affluent than the 45228. Is this the affluent Indian Hill neighborhood in Cincy?....please forgive me for my lack of knowledge of all things Cincy. Congrats Cincy on keeping the mega money within city limits. What are the rich Cincy suburbs like? What has kept the super rich within city limits as opposed to a suburb?

I wasn't aware Cleveland still had an image problem. I know in the past that it was "the mistake by the lake" but I thought since the city cleaned up it's act, it's been known as a national urban renewal success story. Some relatives of mine visited Cleveland a few years ago for a Browns game. They live in the suburbs of Detroit. I listened when my uncle came back telling how Cleveland was so clean and a real neat city. After listening to him rave I had to see Cleveland for myself and I came away impressed. I've heard of others say great things about Cleveland too. So could Cleveland's image 'problem' be solely among residents of metro Cleveland? I don't think there is nearly as much division between Cleveland and it's suburbs as there is between Detroit and it's suburbs. And that puts Cleveland in a very good position for growth, as I think the biggest pool of potential future residents to the city will come from Cleveland's suburbs. And I don't think any city that isn't Miami, NYC, Chicago, or some west coast cities should spend any money or time trying to advertise itself to tourists. Cleveland won't be a tourist mecca for a while, if ever. They are nice to have and add a little life to the city and some extra revenue, but the real meat and potatoes are the people who will live in the city.

The first time I drove into Cleveland from the west on I-90, it was a very humid, hazy summer morning. The metro seemed to transition rapidly from rural, to suburban, to urban. Then as the Key and Terminal towers came into view, I was overwhelmed with excitement. These two towers do way more than make a statement for downtown Cleveland, they take it to another level for a first time visitor. Part of the awe was the poor visibility that morning, I'd say maybe 2 to 4 miles max. So the towers just seemed to materialize out of thin air. The Cleveland metro doesn't need any suburban towers to make a statement. The downtown skyline makes suburban Cleveland look dull and boring (at least on the west side), and is all the statement that the metro needs.

I'm talking whitewater rafting/kayaking, rock climbing, spleunking(exploring caves), hiking, and other fun stuff. Not necessarily fishing or hunting. So where are the best places to do these things in Ohio? Is there even any whitewater in Ohio? What other fun outdoor stuff is there to do in Ohio? That PP Bridge climb in Cincy sounds really cool, so go ahead and suggest unconventional outdoor activities like that bridge climb if you know of any. Thanks Ohioans from an adventurous Michiganian (Michigander?)

Colday and DaninDC, I take it you both have been to Campus Martius Park? I think it is much too early to say that the only reason Cmart attracts people is because it is "newish". That is a specious statement. While I'm not so sure that the park is one of the 12 best on the entire continent, it has done a phenomenal job of bringing a very diverse crowd back into the heart of downtown Detroit. Also the investment and development surrounding the park on all sides will ensure the park's success into the future. As for Cleveland's public spaces, I think they are on par with Detroit's other downtown parks as far as what purpose they serve. Public Square is nice and framed by downtown's spectacular architecture of the Terminal, Key, and BP towers but there isn't anything there to draw in the masses on a regular basis. The malls are nice but likewise have no big draw. Voinovich Park and Rotary Plaza were pretty busy when I visited, being surrounded by the tourist traps. There is no reason downtown Cleveland can't have it's own version of Campus Martius Park, if god-forsaken Detroit can create such a place, than nearly any American city could.

Pray Clevelanders, pray for Detroit! I know this isn't UrbanMich.com, but a Rock Financial headquarters in downtown Detroit would be sweet. And Detroit has been a shining star in the midwest as far as suburb to city relocations. What is the city doing right? Not sure, truthfully. GM moved from within the city, but brought in at least 2,500 workers from the suburbs. Compuware moved in a little over 3,000. Onstar, Saab, EDS, and Visteon about 3,000 combined. The renaissance zone designation is definately a boost. But this has been in place for a while, so companies aren't running over each other to take advantage of the tax breaks. Land could be cheaper in downtown Detroit than certain burgeoning suburbs, I believe Compuware rec'd their parcel for $1. Also, two of the Campus Martius sites have underground parking garages built by the city to stimulate development. Infrastructure improvement also has to be noticed and taken into account. New water mains and roadways, and a magnificent public square at the heart of Campus Martius can only help spur spin off investment. Redico, the real estate company that took over for Kern Woodward Associates, also has done a great job of attracting tenants. I think I heard that Kern's "middleman" costs proved to be to much in the years that they were in control of the Campus Martius sites and that led to potential tenants balking at the added costs. Redico is doing something very right, for Detroit at least. It also helps having one of the world's largest corporations set up shop in your downtown. GM has a lot of clout and influence on their suppliers and customers, and GM's renovation of the Renaissance Center has been nothing short of incredible.

I really do wish Rock Financial/Quicken Loans would pick up and move to downtown Cleveland from where it's based now, which I believe is Livonia, a large inner ring Detroit burb. I'd rather have a gigantic corporation be based in the downtown of another city than in a suburb of my hometown metro. It's really wierd how similar Cleveland and Detroit are, yet Cleveland has a much better reputation and so much more synergy about it's downtown than Detroit does. When TRW Automotive moved it's headquarters from Cleveland to metro Detroit, they set up shop in Livonia. I bet the TRW execs would laugh at the notion of a downtown Detroit hq. And Rock Financial doesn't have an office in downtown Detroit.