CleveFan

An ironic and haunting song to bid goodbye to a local guy who had his moments on the national stage but was more of a legend in Cleveland than anywhere else. Some of us of a certain age in “his town” heard Michael’s music many times in the soundtrack of growing up. We might’ve missed out on much of his music from later years - we had grown up and moved on to other concerns - but many stayed connected via Michael’s media work particular his drive time radio show on WNCX. But we’ll remember those MSB hits that Kid Leo used to play on WMMS. Michael - and those days, gone too quickly, for sure.

Thanks @Boomerang_Brianfor making us aware of this podcast with Dan Whalen and a deep dive into the Intro project. For some, maybe not a lot of new information - but especially for those that are not as close to the project - a really excellent interview. If all Cleveland developers brought Mr. Whalen's passion and commitment to excellence vis a vis "Intro" - the city would be very fortunate. His comments about the need for Cleveland to take a more proactive and creative role in supporting the West Side Market (paraphrasing that) were interesting. I'm not in the best position to comment on the West Side Market other than as a visitor - but it is certainly a wonderful national attraction for the city, not to mention just being a super-cool way to enjoy the food and culture of Cleveland. (At least one major travel website ranks it in the top 10 of greatest food markets in the United States.) I'm just not sure how it is faring over the last few years and specifically, coming through the pandemic. But when you think of the synergy between a soon-to-be thriving "Intro" and the landmark WSM just across the street- it's a perfect anchor for a distinctive and dynamic Ohio City. I hope that Cleveland's local leadership and the citizenry do everything possible to support and expand this great institution. It's really exciting to see all the development going on in the area and the possibilities for the future in/around Ohio City seem incredible. Importantly, when you look at any new significant Cleveland development projects, such as an Intro - you're reminded that they are not only valuable on their own merits - but perhaps especially in how they benefit their neighbors. I think the Intro project is going to be one of those that is even better in reality than it looks in its best renderings - especially in terms of the energy it infuses.

They were at 11-12 stories before- couldn’t they have actually tried adding a few stories and tried for a TMUD credit? End of the day, the most important thing is the design’s effectiveness and appeal. This isn’t the typical area to move to - though it offers a vibey unique setting, it has some challenges in terms of access to typical neighborhood offerings. The higher floors would’ve probably been an easy sell on the market. Whatever it is, the new design better be pretty compelling.

Gotta love that blue glass. If that facade had been a brown color, for example, I think it would’ve felt very imposing to the surrounding neighborhood. This look feels much lighter and open despite the bulk of the building.

Hopefully, some greenery would be considered historic -that might add warmth and a nice contrast of color against the building. It could be nicely decorated particularly at the holidays and add a bit of privacy.

They'll be watching to see how phase one leases - and, hopefully, it will be a mad success, quickly leading to a green light for phase 2. And a second Intro would rise quickly. It was a cool surprise to see that an even taller version of it may be forthcoming. That Ohio City skyline is going to look a lot more grown up in a few years if you include this project, throw in BridgeWorks and hopefully, future development. Now, if we could somehow get that Viaduct Tower back into the state of play!

I know it's been a long, long haul with Nucleus - and most forum members are fried hearing anything speculative about it - but how cool would it be if, in the end, Nucleus not only survives but recaptures some of the flair of that dramatic Jenga Tower. Honestly, I did think renderings of that most famous version of it in the Cleveland skyline looked as subtle as the Justice Center on steroids... In my neighborhood, there are Jenga towers in Jersey City and lower Manhattan - and I'm not a big fan of them here, either. But man it would be a nice "problem" to have the design of a 50- something story Nucleus to debate - especially if we know this time it's really happening! And it would be very ironic if it, at the end of the day, it eclipsed the height of the SW HQ. Now, with the TMUD in play, I guess we can at least reasonably think it's a possibility. If it resurrected looking more like version 3.0 with the office/apartment buildings separate - that would really add some great density and activate at the street level. I'm definitely still rooting for some version of it to finally get built.

Apparently you’re not in the minority! Stark’s website still has the least attractive model of them all, in my opinion, (version 3.0) on the development portfolio page.

Yes, I believe it was to be “The Canopy Hotel” and then the developers decided not to go forward.

I’ve always thought the Ohio Bell Building would be an amazing hotel conversion if done right - I don’t know if it would be a particularly difficult building to convert. Probably would be too large not to be a mixed usage project. I’d love to hear news on that front in the near future. .

Hopefully this is just the final quiet before the (good) storm for Nucleus. My hope (based on nothing but hope) is that Stark “settles” for a one tower mixed usage model that becomes more vertical than the last update ( was that actually 4.0?) and more distinctive - but not all the way back to the Jenga version. Of course, it would also be really nice to get a couple new twenty- some story buildings across the way from The Beacon. Hopefully, Stark still wants to make something of a legacy statement in downtown Cleveland.

Regarding a new hotel as part of the SW campus, I’d be surprised if we don’t hear something in the short term. Last year, @KJP reported that SW already had enough training sessions occurring to fill 100 hotel rooms a night for a year. And that number was expected only to increase. With vaccines expected to be available to all Americans by the summer, a new normal will return - and with it, a return to in person meetings, trainings and so on. If you had just invested in fancy downtown digs, would you rather send all your guests “across the square” ( or further) for accommodations or keep them in your own super modern urban campus? I would think SW desires a “home base” modern hotel to pair with its equally modern offices. And that scenario will be extremely motivating for a high end hotel developer - a guaranteed baseline of bookings year round, despite weather. And hopefully, that pre Pandemic trend of annual visitors to Cleveland will return as well - it had reached some 19.2 million in 2019, nearly doubling in a decade. That may take some time, but development is based on the expected future - not the temporary present. I would’ve loved to have seen that new hotel on the Jacobs lot -now that we know the main HQ is set back - especially if it was the scale of the 600 room Hilton - but even if smaller - it would’ve definitely increased pedestrian activity on the square. But as long as it’s part of the SW campus, it will be a big win!

Wow - thanks for sharing that video (and pics) @ExPatClevGuy I don’t mean to take the detour off of Random Development and Construction- but that’s a really interesting piece, for those interested in music and Cleveland history. And I think you’re spot on about the venues inside Public Hall deserving more attention and promotion than they generally get in CLE. Just another jewel of the city.

It’s hard to believe the city doesn’t take better care of street scapes particularly at/near some of its own most historical and unique properties. That venue could easily be a host to one of those nationally televised town halls you see during political season.

It looks fantastic. I’d be interested to know if any of the Cleveland news teams did a piece about it and to see that video. And, if not, why the hell not?

I looked at the Cavs lineup the other night and just got so disgusted - I mean, half the team is out! K Love has spent more time in a suit on the sidelines than he’s played since LeBron left. Retrospective I know, but the Cavs never should have given him that new contract. And now, not playing Drummond - what kind of a message does it send the players, the fans and the league. Think his value is going up day by day? This franchise did nothing without Lebron the first time and so far, other than a promising 20 first games this year- they’ve been perennial contenders for the most lottery balls. Yeah, “be the fight” - sorry, I’m not buying it.

Comcast in Philly - now that’s an urban campus! And an interesting comparison. Comcast leases 1.1 million square feet in their 58 story building - not the whole building, but roughly 90%. Recently, back in this thread - someone had asked for examples of corporate HQs that were in mixed usage situations- well, Comcast Centre tower is one. It includes a restaurant and some retail in addition to a couple other smaller firms leasing the remaining space. What the SW “base building” is going to look like is fascinating - but what becomes of the parcels reserved for future usage is equally important. I know a comparison to the Comcast campus is a heavy lift - but Let’ s hope that the SW campus ultimately yields more big news in the years to come.

I'm definitely with @Pugu on the "beat Pittsburgh" sentiment, lol - even though it doesn't seem likely at the moment. But if @KJP's usually accurate reporting holds true, we have reason to think we can get a 35 story building, which just might edge it up to the 4th tallest in the city, especially if there's any decorative crown. As for color, the possibilities are potentially dramatic if SW decides they want to make a statement. - at least, by night. Dallas' Bank of America is the icon in their skyline (it's also the tallest, which helps) but even less vertical high rises (our new Hilton comes to mind) elevate their presence at night via lighting. Come on, SW - be creative!

I just don't get the idea of the 2-3 story "learning center/museum" on the public square lot - why not just incorporate that into the HQ? Maybe I'm seeing the NEO trans map wrong, but the tower seems to be setback on an angle towards West 3rd street - and I don't see that on the SW site where it seems flush to the street. Seems like really positive news with the notion that the rectangular glass box might not be literally what they want - that the previous massing was just representative of the total square footage. If there's at least some shaping or even curvature they're leaning towards - that will likely add height and more interesting dimensions. Also, the idea of incorporation of some color could be really cool. They also state there will be communication with the city's planning commission - so maybe they'll be a chance for some meaningful feedback prior to the final design submission. Great news that they intend to start Q4 of this year!

The Viaduct had to be the sexiest proposed building in Cleveland since ...um...well, a long time. I really believe that if there’s a way to make it happen - whoever does it will create a phenomenal success - people will be tremendously attracted to that building. If only I had an extra 100 million...

Color-wise, I would’ve liked it more in a two tone scheme - I feel we’ve got enough of that dark grey in the environment already. The “distressed” bricks help out a little with the green in the window boxes - balconies would’ve been even better! Still, a good addition!

Just imagining the City Club apartment building on that parcel really underscores how Euclid is transforming into a much more colorful vibrant Avenue. It’s going to be great fun watching the crane and the building rising!

Opinions will surely vary on this proposal versus the previous - but when you “zoom out” - especially looking east down Detroit to the downtown core - this building appears more “urban” with more presence - an extension of the downtown vibe westward. (Especially in the context of recent and proposed substantial vertical development in the area) The setback seems respectful of St.Malachi’s importance although that juxtaposition remains far from subtle. The restaurant with its accompanying plaza area should increase pedestrian activity. I’m not crazy about the slightly darker tone of the higher portion - but overall, This design is more arresting and reminds me of very contemporary high rises one sees in many other large cities. It will be a very appropriate contributor to the extension of downtown’s influence. (think “ way cool” when lit up at night.) I’m not mad about that at all!

I’d be super stoked if the stars ever aligned for Dan Gilbert to acquire the Indians - the team needs ownership that will spend what it takes to attain a championship and he’s demonstrated he has that mettle. Still recovering from his major stroke and given how serious it was - I suspect Mr. Gilbert will be doubling down on his commitment to his hometown Detroit. I actually wonder how long -term his plans with the Cavaliers are. Then again , I’m sure he’d love to build them back to a championship contender without #23.

Last visit in town I had dinner in the neighborhood and was impressed with the vibe and vibrancy there. An interesting area with real urban appeal and I hadn’t realized how close it is to the scenic lakefront! The higher floors will be able to take advantage of great views. I really love the incorporation of greenery in those sharp courtyard plazas (which will benefit lower floor appeal and curb appeal) plus the green higher balcony area. Relaxed contemporary feel with the textured brick and big windows. Looks like a huge asset to the block! Hope we can change @YABO713’s neighbor’s mind!