CleveFan

Always love seeing the city from the ROHF/Science Center. - it really looks very modern from that perspective. Wish there was just a little more in the way of a "boardwalk vibe" down there. It would probably be a very popular walk from those attractions in the decent weather months if there was just a little in the way of small food shops and such.

A cool new perspective by JonesDrones - the view to SW from the Hilton. Someone had said the other day that SW should’ve been taller and didn’t match the stature of the other big 4 - but this pic presents otherwise Big city look!

Without apology to those on this forum who are saying “wouldn’t you rather have this current iteration of Bridgeworks rather than nothing at all?” … If this Geis design doesn’t get pushback from the commission and an aesthetic upgrade - I would answer “In this case waiting might actually be better than building”. It’s out of step with the recent exciting designs in Ohio City (like Intro and Church And State) That specific location deserves something noteworthy. This design - to quote Huey Lewis, “sometimes bad is bad”.

Hopefully they "go taller" with SW2. Meaning, instead of 300" - 500'.

Maybe It's time for some big news with details.....

That 4th picture down from the top in Ken's excellent article really demonstrates better than any words could - just how separated from the city that the lakefront is - due to the highway and the tracks. Here's wishing city planners and all the movers and shakers that are working on bringing the city down to the lakefront every possible step in that direction.

Amazing what a big city vibe SW contributes to the skyline, and the signature roofline is still not completed. The traffic adds a lot, too! Now if we could just get a 500-600’ new Justice Center Tower (standing vertically Geowizical!) (photo by JonesDronesCle)

Great reporting @KJPbut the lack of response here speaks volumes. My initial reaction was one of disappointment that this isn’t happening downtown - but after reading the article I better understand what is motivating the Haslams in this direction. Now the question is, are they intent on building a nearby suburban stadium too? I guess we’ll find out in the near future - but meanwhile, do we have any Urban Ohio sleuths with connections to Mayor Bibbs or to the Browns? Inquiring minds wanna know..

Super lazy job by ESPN on their Cavs/Knicks broadcast using old photos of downtown for their city shots - no sign of SW at all.

Some more interesting drone shots from JonesDronesCle - night time perspectives.

Great shots. Can’t wait till SW loses those window shades!

Is the design staying as that same sort-of institutional gray thing?

Still remarkable to think how our skyline has so greatly improved over the last year by this one mega project. Another great JonesDrones photo off Instagram from a couple days ago. And to think, there could very well be a 2nd HQ tower of formidable height added to this picture in just a few short years. (And I’m wondering about how that “skyline-changing” residential -hotel project might fit into this picture! 😉) And let’s get that AT&T Building redeveloped and lit up- it’s a potential gem. But I digress….

I’m certainly not entirely opposed to another attraction on the lakefront but I do think that most “younger” people need shopping (of some sort) and dining to add to their experience. Football might bring someone to the lakefront 10 times a year - but a museum or a Science Center will not. I like Ken’s reasoning above that 1000 apartments and some places to dine might benefit the land bridge and lakefront traffic more than a stadium. And what an absolutely cool neighborhood it could ultimately become. I still see the possible move off the lakefront as the best scenario for the city of Cleveland to activate its lakefront - and outdoor recreational- based activities are not enough in our climate.

Another new skyline shot co-starring SW - posted on JonesDrones IG.

This is a best case scenario, IMO. - The Browns stay in the city of Cleveland and benefit downtown businesses because the stadium is so close. - It, in effect extends downtown southward. - It creates an opportunity for a new lakefront - hopefully with “real” development. - It allows for maximum use of mass transportation from all sides of Greater Cleveland. - It could create a sports “central complex” where Soccer and CSU sports are also housed. - It ensures that Browns games don’t have to be played in Columbus or elsewhere during a transition. -It creates space for a ballpark village that could become another downtown tourist attraction - Financially, though some on this forum won’t like anything but 100% of costs paid by the Haslams - it seems “doable”. - It actually benefits USPS based on Ken’s reporting - It probably somewhat minimizes the winter wind effect of being literally on the lakefront. And just think, plenty of national TV flyover shots of our growing downtown still in play. Thanks @KJPfor the exciting scoop.

If Browns stadium stayed right where it is - with a virtual rebuild, would it be possible (financially and logistically) for the Haslams to build a signature tourist-attraction restaurant/club "into" the stadium? If done right, it could be novel and unique attraction providing a great view of the field even on non-game days. Visitors to the Science Center and ROHF would have a secondary attraction to visit after a museum visit. I don't know how financially lucrative it might be (or not be) but certainly the Haslams could diversify the possible uses of the stadium with some out-of-the-box thinking. I've long felt that Cleveland really needs an "Inner Harbor" type destination adjacent to the Rock Hall and Science Center - something for a younger generation that wants as much to shop and dine as they want to look at museum exhibits. Something to keep tourists in the area longer, spending more money in our city. The more we can diversify the experience on the lakefront for visitors (and residents) - the more powerful the inducement to come down or come back to the lakefront downtown. And, as more is offered in the immediate area - the more each individual attraction benefits from the proximity of others tourist destinations. By the way, if the model posted by @NorthShore647 is ever actually realized - it could be one of the most beautiful fly-over stadium views in the country. I haven't been a proponent of a lakefront stadium - but I'm trying to imagine it with all the possible benefits it could provide. I hope that the attractions just north of the stadium offer retail/dining options in addition to park-like recreational offerings. (I forget the details of what has been proposed there but remember it emphasizing outdoor recreation - problematic in our current climate.)

Lovin the skyline more than ever with SW in it! And hopefully, another substantial tower to the west of HQ1 coming soon! Courtesy JonesDrones on IG Reels.

I can hardly wait to see the Bedrock development down on the riverfront - the areas close to the river are slowly transforming and the possibilities are very exciting for the future. As others have said, so much character in the area and hopefully, as more attractive new developments are built along/near the river, it will give Cleveland yet another new and interesting perspective for visitors and residents alike.

Sceeenshots from cool new Instagram reels by JonesDronescl.

Great pics, @Silent Matt You've been giving us a lot of cool shots! I selected just a few from your post today (2/9) just to offer an opinion I think your pics show- that being: A tower built above the parking garage would've been a great place for SWHQ2 - especially if it does rise as high as 500' as might be possible. It would've left that view from the west "open" for HQ1 and would've added even more of a presence around Public Square. I know it's wishful thinking, but it might've been even more impactful at that location. (Don't get me wrong - a new significant tower between HQ1 and Rockefeller Building will still be very sweet!) The other thing I'm thinking is that HQ1, as a building, is really growing on me. I liked it from the start - but I'm really growing to love it with time. I think it turned out to actually be a perfect height too - as it's bulk almost requires it to be a bit shorter than the Terminal Tower from an aesthetic standpoint. Bottom line is we're fortunate to have a big company like SW investing in the city and changing the optics (and the skyline) for Cleveland. Just my two cents.

I’d like to add my congratulations - as many others have rightly done - to @KJPfor his outstanding reporting (as usual) on this story and putting media outlets like The Plain Dealer to shame, frankly. Ken, you also sounded great on WTAM. I’m a proponent of the stadium staying downtown. There’s still a prestige factor in having the stadium whether or not it’s a major economic driver - and there’s an unmatched excitement and energy in the city when a big game is happening downtown. Certainly, although limited in number, the downtown hotels, restaurants and related businesses have huge days and weekends on those 9 or 10 seasonal (or playoff hopefully) dates each year. But I think the Haslams are deadly serious about moving to Brookpark based on two main premises - money and control. I’m sure they have a master spreadsheet that compares possible costs and income in the two locations with a number of all- important variables - such as open air versus dome and the possible income sources from related enterprises they could own and host - including hotels, attractions (think “American Dream” next to Giants Stadium in New Jersey). At first, when I was thinking about this possible move - I thought, “maybe this is actually not bad for the city “ imagining a whole new neighborhood on the stadium property However, in the WTAM interview, Ken said that the land there is classified in such s way that it can’t be sold to developers for condos and hotels, etc. If I understood that correctly, how could the city really develop much there? Would it turn into a park area? That’s my concern - what can actually realistically happen with that site? If the answer is “not a whole lot” then I’m right back to thinking that the lakefront site is best developed with the stadium as the centerpiece similar to the recent renderings we were shown. Maybe @KJPor others with greater knowledge can explain the possibilities or limitations on that site for future development. Finally, can someone explain why a dome can be built in Brookpark but not downtown? Isn’t that primarily because that’s how Haslam wants it? Or are there other financial and/or logistical dynamics?

The more I listen to Ken on this WTAM interview, the more I think this is a real intention by the Haslams. It puts all the pressure on the city to come up with lots of money for the Haslams (that they’d rather not have to pay). The Haslams figure “we either win on the front end or we win a few years down the road.”

@KJPto be on WTAM shortly after the 4 pm news supposedly

Agree with @zbaris87 This is more than a leverage move. Control of the overall site is surely the Haslams goal. They can build a couple new hotels, new restaurant facilities and possibly retail creating a ballpark village of sorts and fully control the design. plus, the stadium will be all- new, not a refurbishment and I believe that is the preference for the Haslams. I also do not understand the finances and can only assume that the Haslams are willing to invest more significantly in this site if they have more room to develop profitable enterprises on their new land in the way they prefer. It’s going to suck to hear those TV announcers saying “From Brookpark Ohio..,,instead of from downtown Cleveland”. I also feel a sense of sadness that the energy of Sundays in the fall that you feel downtown will be lost - and, no doubt, a blow to downtown restaurants and bars - and probably the hotels as well. The opening of the lakefront land is the one potentially “winning” aspect for Cleveland - but that still will require someone to actually come up with a plan and eventually the financing to create the new lakefront district that will have to follow. But how long will that take?