CleveFan

Great tip Pleco - great views indeed.

So funny how there’s a synchronicity to how people think sometimes. Just last night, after processing the down-sizing of Nucleus, I thought of how being a fan of downtown Cleveland construction could be like being a Cleveland sports fan. Growing up with years of sports futility- championship dreams leading at best, to heart- breaking near misses followed forever by cruel video replays. It reminded me of the excitement of bold, Manhattan-like skyscraper visions - Ameritrust, Progressive and now, Nucleus -skyline transformers that might’ve been -but for a series of unfortunate events - all now relegated to the “cancelled projects” file. I thought the comparison might resonate for others but after logging in, I found a very similar observation had just been made (All credit to Mildtraumatic.) Does anyone have a rendering of what Cleveland would’ve looked like with all 3 aforementioned towers in the current skyline? I know it’s pure fantasy - but it would be fun to see. And yeah, , a 1200 foot tower might be a bit much in our town - but it would be a nice aesthetic problem to actually have. I just don’t happen to think we’ll see that from SW- or anybody else in the next decade or more. Key Towers’ reign wil probably be a very long one.

When you think about the chances that Nucleus, in its 54 story version, was ever going to get built - juxtaposed with the renewed possibility that we actually replace two ugly surface lots, in a key location, - of course, we’ll take this new project without much hesitation. But as others have said , when you consider how Stark had described this project -“an iconic Terminal Tower for the 21st century - world-class and skyline changing” (all phrases used by Stark) - this is a real disappointment . Understanding that the new images are not final renderings, in my opinion, these buildings are not compelling or even especially attractive. This project still probably contains enough square footage to produce a 50-some story tower at a significantly reduced price tag from Nucleus 2014. I get that many, perhaps most, Forum members would rather have two 20-25 story structures , but there’s powerful symbolism created by the rise of a new skyscraper that challenges a city’s tallest towers and becomes a metaphor for that city’s growth. Honestly, I would’ve preferred to live with one remaining surface lot (hopefully to be built upon in the near future) in exchange for one new, skyline-changing tower like what they’re building in Detroit.

A very comprehensive report with a lot there to be processed - among other takeaways it underscores the low number of non rental downtown residences. I celebrate the growth in downtown population, but my concern, is that many apartment owners evolve towards ownership - and we just don’t have many attractive downtown options in that regard.. For growth trends to be sustainable downtown in the long-term, we need to create compelling opportunities for buyers, not just renters.

The Q is going to look amazing - it will really give the city an even more “progressive” look in the Gateway district - coupled with the more open look at the baseball park and The Beacon’s eventual overlooking modern shimmer - too say nothing of the experience inside the venue itself. I think this project is definitely worth every penny, especially considering the many years of NBA and special events to come.

By virtue of its Playhouse Square location, and formidable height ( just a couple feet under 400’) the Lumen will easily be the most impactful addition to the Cleveland skyline in two decades, since the Federal Courthouse Building (the 4th tallest courthouse in the country) began construction, in 1999. The view of it from the south side of Progressive Field (see the “What’s new in Cleveland” tab on ThisisCleveland.com for that perspective) will really extend the downtown eastward.

It’s gonna a lot of fun watching this building rise -on the heels of the Beacon and the Hilton before that. We’ve kind of gotten used to having a big crane in the downtown skyline lately - and I’m sure we’d like this trend to continue. But what will be the next new downtown tower? Any predictions?

They’re estimating it could be an $800 million project - let’s hope that’s not a renovation.

The fake lake is hilarious - instead of working with the real dynamic vistas that exist - they’ve oriented the development largely inward to its own suburban style pond. I’d love to see that much development but - I think Murray Hill expressed it perfectly - defeat snatched from the jaws of victory.

Thanks, as always, to KJP’s camera for the latest, great shots of The Beacon project. When does the metal cladding start?

How would a new Justice Center be financed? Would it come down to new taxes and would it then require voter approval?

The new definition of transformational -15 stories or more, costs at least $50 million , is 350,000 square feet or more, is mixed usage and recoups the tax credit money invested That’s not exactly epic proportions, and smaller in scope than the original defnition, which required 20 stories, or more. And 350,000 square feet- well, in terms of a comparison, the Terminal Tower, which Stark references when putting Nucleus in context, and which began construction in the year 1926, is 577,000 square feet. The December 18 PD article by Michelle Jarboe states that Nucleus is already “scaled back”. Wouldn’t you just love to see that rendering? One more thought - the idea that the house just “ran out of time” on HB 469 is weak. The great city of Cleveland deserves better. Some phone calls to the Ohio Senate might help. Here’s hoping that Nucleus is still very much alive and not too much smaller at all.

It’s hard to imagine any surviving grand vision of an iconic “Nucleus” that might’ve been symbolic with Cleveland’s skyline 100 years from now ( Starks words) with a significantly scaled -back, shorter, and smaller version of it built in supposed “phases” over who knows how many years - what we’re hearing is now the likely best case scenario for Nucleus thanks to the total lack of vision and support by Ohio’s state senate, the lack of a smart compromise by the Cleveland Schools and the lack of the right partnership and collaboration between the city and state’s so-called leaders. This is a complete fumbling of the ball by the powers that be - an unrecognized and wasted transformational opportunity for Cleveland

What a cool project! Congrats to Ohio City -seems like there’s real energy there and this should only add to the momentum downtown being generated by all of the building conversions and big new projects like The Beacon and The Lumen.

Here’s a New York City take on the Nucleus tower , completed in 2016....

Well stated! I bet most Urban Ohio followers would usually be heartbroken if a 600’ tower got cancelled - but Nucleus - no, it’s like the 21st century version of the Justice Center. I’m not even a fan of “.Jenga Towers” in more dense settings where they can “blend in” . There’s one in Jersey City ( which is blowing up like Miami) and it’s ugly there too. i guess I’m hoping that the Nucleus project goes forward with a streamlined version featuring the same kind of height. As far as its viability, I think Stark is still all in on this. We saw how long The Beacon took to happen - so 3 or 4 years isn’t that long of a delay in Cleveland terms. Stark’s website still messages that they’re out to change the Cleveland skyline. The Beacon, a nice project, isn’t on that scale - I think Stark really wants to build something that joins the big 3 In terms of scale and impact. Hopefully, the state legislature can provide the kick- start that the failing Cleveland Schools could not.

I’m down for another 20 Lumen-sized buildings!

In the City Club thread, we were speculating on how tall their possible new apartment building, rumored to be in development, could be. KJP had commented that the “Beacon tower is about 307,800 sf. That's an average of 1,645 sf per unit.” His math is right if 187 units there are evenly divided into that total square footage number. I’m not a math person, but it got me looking at the Beacon website- there are now floor plans for the units there. I count at least 29 different floor plans - which seems like a lot of diversity for a 187 unit building. 16 of those 29 are 1 bedroom apartments- the rest 2 bedrooms. The smallest is 803 square feet, - the largest is 1959. For a new construction apartment tower, some generous sized units. The largest one looks especially sweet! Love those floor to ceiling windows all around!

It seems typical for the City Club Apartment projects to have close to 300 units - and the Minneapolis building looks to have a much bigger footprint than the Euclid site - while still being 17 stories high. The Euclid address would probably require significantly more height to get close to the 300 unit mark - assuming that size project. I believe The Beacon has 187 units in its apartment tower, which is 19-20 stories (on top of its garage). So, if It happens, We could easily have another twenty-some story tower on the block. City Club Apartments seem to generally be mixed use projects - but that could mean just a restaurant on the street level.

Awesome if true

Sky - I was wondering about that little comment, too...

They’re all over the place in Manhattan, especially midtown - given Cleveland weather, they make some sense.

Agree with MrClifton - the Ohio Bell building doesn’t get the love it deserves. A good scrubbing and some creative lighting is definitely in order to highlight the building’s classic Art Deco look. And how cool would an apartment be where you could watch the Tribe win a World Series, in person, without buying a ticket!

Thanks for those updates on the legislative scoreboard, KJP. So based on a few recent posts, it sounds like the original Nucleus “may be” shelved, but a newer plan ”might be” in development. It seems logical that no real revision will be put out there until the Senate makes their vote. If they ended up losing the shorter tower and the expensive bridge hotel, seems like the cost of the project could be significantly reduced- while still giving the city a new 600’ tower. (Hopefully a refined version of the brutal Jenga Tower). If there is any info on a “scaled-back” version, I’m sure everyone would LOVE to know about it. Hearing no specifics after all this time makes me think that there’s simply nothing officially on the drawing board just yet. It’ll be fascinating to see what a new Nucleus looks like if a scaled- back version does emerge. That might even end up being a blessing - though I’d love a new project of this scale - I never felt the original Nucleus felt quite right visually in the Cleveland skyline.

This site is very quick to cut off- topic postings; I guess there’s no way to cut off posts based on assumptions and out-of-date whisperings. But then again, the rumors get us all excited ....