CleveFan

I totally agree with Clvlndr and Surf Ohio - why have that office space down on the lakefront, very disconnected - an "island" away from most of the retail, restaurants and shops that workers would easily access across the tracks, in downtown. That lakefront proposal would be a dark zone after 5pm and become its own self contained "office park" - an awkward, if not ugly juxtaposition to the elegant Science Center, RHOF and even Browns Stadium ( I hate that stadium location too but thats off topic) Although I'd love that part of lakefront as a dynamic space for tourists and locals to visit, dine and shop in , I'd gladly take a neighborhood of 1,000 apartments, originally imagined. just not this office concept that seems to be on the table. This is one project I'm really hoping does not happen.

Thanks KJP I had missed that post by FreeThink. Wow that Cumberland proposal looks almost industrial and extremely unattractive - I wish that development on downtowns lake front was more hotel, tourist and/or entertainment oriented - Perhaps a unique mixed use dining/retail center along the lines of say, Inner Harbor in Baltimore. I know we have the Flats kind of serving that function as well but I think Cleveland is still missing the true potential of its fabulous lakefront. Seems like the rock hall and science center would greatly benefit from shopping areas adjacent - not an outlet mall but something unique that could hold people for lunch or dinner and shopping. Rather see the office space go vertical in any other areas of downtown.

Can someone explain why so little is going on in terms of development on the lakefront? There were some very cool renderings or ideas that never happened - I guess we got a much smaller apartment building and a Mexican restaurant behind the rock hall but scaled way down. And then there was the ugly outlet mall that I thought was completely misplaced being on the lakefront- ugh. What efforts to create something really special on the lakefront, if any, are going on at this point?

That hypothetical future high rise in the Flats as updated by KJP would be perfect on that site - it does look very "Vancouverish". Hope that gets built in the near future and more like it along the river. Imagine what that neighborhood could become! Cleveland is developing some distinctive neighborhoods and areas for tourism that are really attractive and I hope those with big plans and dreams keep pushing ahead to make the reality.

Shakin my head - Griff is gone, no replacement and the Cavs are bragging about resigning Korver - (a no show on offense in the finals and a bad defensive player) and now Richard Jefferson!!! - Guess we'll have the oldest bench in the league. And for those that are penciling in the Cavs for the finals again - consider that we've all gotten used to an injury- free LeBron. But what if that changed and he went down (especially late in the year?) We've got to take some scoring pressure off LBJ by adding one more real game changer. Kryie's generally brilliant (well, most of the time) but Love sometimes disappears offensively in big games - I really think we need one more major scoring threat - Now that PG and Butler have gone elsewhere, I'm rooting that Carmello signs on. Talk about adding some firepower... I know he's had some "issues" in terms of defensive effort, but playing alongside LeBron would take care of any "attitude problem". Cavs have to get better - not just hope for better results from the same team. Being champs of a clearly weaker conference is not what you settle for with the best player of a generation - 1 title in 10 seasons with LeBron here - not good enough.

The incredible shrinking skyscraper is down to 5 or 6 stories? Lol - "why bother?" ( as Bette Midler once said) I don't like parking lots either but this location is much too important to be some fairly inconsequential structure. I'd prefer to see the proposed bridge hotel section eliminated along with the second shorter tower (for now) in order to allow the higher building, perhaps in an evolved form, to rise. I'd like to see the "Jenga tower" be less bulky and create a "fewer apartments per floor" scenario. I think that would be incredibly enticing to buyers and Nucleus would become an "if you build it, they will come" project. I could envision one terraced tower with a wider base and lower floors for the office component with narrower upper floors for those completely unique apartments with perhaps all corner units. I know this is complete speculation from a non-expert but isn't that part of the purpose on the Forum? I just hope that this project is being looked at from some different design and purpose perspectives because the original Nucleus seems to have too much weight to lift off.

Perhaps but if LeBron is looking to leave that has a lot to do with the desirability of the franchise.

I think the Cavs better Pull out all the stops to land Paul George (or someone on that level) - even though it may be a one year rental - it may well be their last chance at a title and a change in the developing narrative that Cleveland is no longer a destination of choice in the NBA Because where there's smoke there's fire- and theres increasing smoke that this coming season will be Lebron's last in CLE - LeBron is always a step ahead of everyone - not only on the court- but off it as well. His main motivation is his own career - not a city- he despises Dan Gilbert and the Lakers are making msjor moves to bring the King to Lala land to build a new super team. If the Cavs can no longer lure a Jimmy Butler or Paul George it's because the word is out - LeBron's desire to remain home has faded with the front office confusion LBJ has fulfilled his commitment to northeast Ohio by bringing home s title - his interests are on His future in 2018 and that will probably be in LA. I hate to say it but the same basic Cavs team as this year will be unable to improve and the tea leaves at the moment are that this coming year will be the end of the line for the LeBron era here. Of course, I hope I'm wrong but this storyline is "the world's worst kept secret" according to some of NBA reporters who are usually accurate.

gonna be way cool to see at least two tall cranes don't own over the next couple years with The Beacon going up down the street...hopefully it will be 3 at once with Nucleus - sorry, getting greedy!!

Yahoo! Great news! The tower looks beautiful - love the blue contemporary look and Of course, the location is fantastic - should make PS even more dynamic. I agree this balances/extends the skyline nicely. Congrats to Cleveland!

Heard an interesting interview this week on WFAN in the New York market, where I live - featuring Atlanta Falcons owner Arthur Blank. As I listened to this ultra-smart, excellent communicator and megabusinessman (Home Depot, etc.) I thought - if only the Browns had been fortunate enough to get an owner like him - everything would be different. Everything in the Falcons' organization's mindset considers the fan perspective - and really values the opinion of the fans. THis is especially true of the recent new "Mercedes-Benz" stadium in Atlanta, which will be probably the finest football stadium in the NFL. It doesn't seem like Hazlam and the current ownership have ever connected with the Browns fans and ever seemed to care much about what they think and they certainly don't communicate well, IMO. Kind of a tangent to that - a late March CBS report says that the Browns apparently hate their current uniforms (as do many of us) and that they are considering a change to a "white helmet" when the Browns next opportunity to change uniforms occurs - that would be 2020. (The Browns briefly had a white helmet back in the 40's, I believe.) I wonder if they've bothered to get the fans opinion on that....

I can understand how the hotel market could be saturated right now - but even if that aspect of Nucleus was eliminated couldn't that still mean (at the least) that the Jenga Tower part of Nucleus could still rise with the dimensions originally planned? Between the office segment and apartment (or condo) demand I would think there would still be enough demand to result in one new skyscraper. I'm not sure how the office and residential components coexist in Nucleus but wasn't the hotel in " the bridge"? I would be interested in the more informed speculations of you experts on a possibly smaller redesign of Nucleus if the hotel piece has become problematic.

Wanted to weigh in on the posts of May 19th comparing favorite skylines between Cleveland Cincy Columbus and Pittsburgh (primarily) I think Cleveland's skyline is unique in that Key Tower is significantly taller than even the second tallest Terminal Tower - and it more than doubles the majority of high rises in the heart of the downtown. That factor along with a relative shortage of 500' high towers creates the feeling of gaps in the skyline which you don't feel with Pittsburgh or Cincinnati. So it's "balance" and "density" that are a part of the reason why Cleveland seems (from certain angles) a bit "thin". Though Cleveland has the tallest building at 950 feet there are only 3 other towers over 500 feet compared to Pittsburgh with 10 towers over 500 and even Columbus with 6 over 500. Imagine how much more impressive Cleveland would be if it added even a couple plus 500 feet towers - especially if one was, say Terminal Tower-like in height. I agree with those who say that height isn't everything - but height is a game-changer. Think of Philly before the zoning change that allowed towers to eclipse William Penn's hat. I think most would agree, however that Key Tower and the Terminal Tower are both world-class iconic buildings.

That's what happens when you get too cocky - yeah Cavs will win the series but what a bad loss by the Cavs - LeBron out of sync tonight

Interesting to note how many years passed between construction starts of the over 500 feet high towers Looking back historically, we are due for another over 500 feet high tower - It did take 37 years after the start of the Terminal Tower construction for Erieview Tower to begin rising- but then only 19 years until 200 Public Square started and only 6 more years to the start of the Key Tower. Now, we're at 29 years and counting since the last over 500 footer - seems like Nucleus is our best hope for the next big I'd love to see another 80's like phase where we add Nucleus and that Jacobs lot tower within a decade.

So when might we finally see the crane for 515?

I'm also very supportive of the city council's vote for the Q upgrades- and I remain unimpressed with the naysayers who say "we can't invest in a sports arena when our neighborhoods are so needy". We've got to find a way to do both - it shouldn't be an either/ or argument. The impact on the region - not just downtown- from not only the Cavs but the many events at the Q is huge. And those "regular folks" from all the neighborhoods are helped as people needing hotels, restaurants and other services come here. This is a job creator as well as a quality of life and strategic decision. Cleveland will remain a major market by hosting the sports, entertainment and conventions and big events that only happen in major cities.

Like "Htsguy" (a day or two ago in the thread for Jacobs public square lot) I was taken aback by KJP' s word "stalled" referring to the Weston superblock Project - though I hadn't seen any groundbreaking news, KJP's comment That the public square lot might be developed before the Weston project was very surprising - Last things I had seen in the forum late last fall Weston was buying up any remaining parcels Of land for the Superblock - so now I'm wondering what (if anything) may have happened - are there significant Problems with the project? Or is it still moving forward albeit behind an originally overly optimistic Timeline?

Ok anybody just a little worried now after two abysmal losses to Atlanta? Everybody still think they'll just "flip the switch" in the playoffs? Other than LBJ I don't believe they're mentally strong enough this year - hope I'm wrong....

It's gonna be awesome to have a tall crane downtown again Congrats to Stark & everyone in Cleveland that is making the Beacon reality i hope that Weston project is not far behind

I think the new color palette looks more contemporary - But it looks like the lighted balconies on the 21st floor are no longer there - One rendering shows only one lonely balcony lit I also like the elimination of the word "the" in the lettering on the top this building will add some much needed density And it will be great to finally see a crane again!

The 2 story version is a major buzzkill. Hard to believe they "didn't have the money" for a nice development on this prime real estate. What a disappointment.

TOTALLY agree with "InlovewithCLE"'s comments about the investment in the city necessary to keep it relevant. The amount of people who visit the city, who spend money in the city's hotels, bars and restaurants after sports (and other entertainment) events at the Q make this upgrade very easy to justify. Cities without sports teams that are thriving are largely in warm weather areas, such as Vegas and Austin - not in the northeast or midwest - and by the way, Vegas is on the verge of adding big league sports anyway. I also have to shake my head at the tired old argument about not having money to fix potholes so we have to be outraged at this kind of civic investment. You think NYC doesn't have potholes? It's the art, culture, entertainment and sports that are a significant reason that Cleveland is a special place - and absolutely yes, a reason to live in Cleveland or move to it. And no disrespect to Akron or even Columbus - but they are not major league cities - and Cleveland is. In order to stay big league, investment in the cities most important sports facility is a total and complete no-brainer. When our city invests in itself - great things happen. The whole RNC process showed us clearly what could happen when we upgraded the city's convention facilities, public square, airport, etc....To me, this is the same kind of forward thinking for the 21st century that simply is necessary. I hope the discussion going forward focuses on design suggestions - not on whether or not this is a good idea. And if Nucleus happens - this will be an impressive and dynamic neighborhood in downtown for many many years to come.

Well, with the score 7-0 Cubs....I'm browsing the forum - Progressive Field ugly? No way - still one of the great parks in baseball... and a bit of an improvement tonight in Indians/Cubs fans ratio - maybe only 25% of the park is Cubs fans....geez..

Gritty, classic win by the Indians! Awesome! BTW, it should be illegal for Indians fans to sell their World Series tickets to Cubs fans for Game 6 (and/or 7) next week... yeah, yeah - I know it's their first time since 1945 and Chicago is only 5 hours away - but it was very disappointing to see all those Cubs fans in Progressive Field in games 1 and 2. Come on CLE!