CleveFan

Just think, if we'd had Urban Ohio back then - we probably would've had around 175 pages of the "New Justice Center" thread.

Yes, an amazing shot, @ColDayMan The city somehow actually looks bigger from that distance and fares very well in comparison to Detroit.

I'll ask again. Just curious

Has SW surpassed Erieview Tower yet?

From that side of town, you can really appreciate the size and impact on the skyline most fully…

They went bulky and intentionally not to be “too tall” with HQ1 - yeah hopefully they design HQ2 to be a bit taller than originally planned (or that we think it will be currently) There’s no reason not to get at least a 350 footer (think Beacon) - and I’d LOVE if it pushed towards 400 or a bit higher . That would be a nice step-down from the main tower to the Rockefeller and a nice presence overall from most any angle.

Great news all around. And just for tower lovers - even at the low end of the possible range described in @KJP's story , 15 stories, you'd get something at least as tall as City Club - and at the higher range of 20 stories - something along the lines of the Beacon - assuming at least 15 feet per story. So, in other words, a tower of some substance that would further balance the west end of the downtown skyline. I realize the human capital and investment into downtown is the main point - but just from an aesthetic standpoint - I think it would be a very good look for that part of town. Build it SW!!

Great news - and the bottom line is - the more residents we can put into nice digs Downtown - the better.

What @marty15said….

It’s in the center of the core of the city - I guess we all have different mindsets about what that should look like. Sorry if I was too melodramatic for you @Ethan - I really dislike when people critique others’ word choices here - I’m expressing a concept which is my right on this forum.

It would be beautiful in Berea or even midtown - not next to SW!! super disappointed if they’re really thinking of tearing down the Justice Center- which for all the hate it gets - is an impressive big city brutalist tower - for this small town vibe in the center of the downtown core. So tired of odes to the past architecturally - Smh.

And without even presenting an alternate vision of what this city - and specifically our lakefront - could become - could aspire to - I guess we’re supposed to just accept that an 800 million dollar retrofitted updated factory of sadness with new landscaping is good enough for poor old Cleveland - it’s the max limit folks! Great leadership would be/is required to allow a better vision be imagined, seen, discussed (yes I’m talking about costs) and then given to the people for their input. Might be surprising what people might support - what could be done - if we actually gave people a chance to see possibilities- to think outside the accepted limits - to aspire to greatnes like a mid 20th century industrial city once did. I know we’re smaller and I know that in some ways we’re struggling - but This city has the potential to have an amazing 2nd half of the century - if we do what our parents and grandparents generation did - think about what we could become - not what we are currently limited to.

Disappointing Cavs home opener but - to the main point - SW in the skyline on the NBA TV League Pass

I like the new towers!

Looks so good, @Pleco - now I find myself wanting "more" - I know, greedy of me - just bein' honest. C'mon @KJPgive us an unexpected new tower to look forward to after this one is done!

Guess it wasn’t that critical since some of us check Urban Ohio multiple times per day anyway! Thank you 🙏

Hey @Silent Matt- I checked my email and have not been receiving my SW notifications either. Not sure when this started.

I hate to sound in any way negative, but I just wish they would put forth a vision of the stadium lakefront parcel without the stadium on it - revealing what possibilities could then be developed. Letting us imagine that paradigm. We’re about to make an immense decision about the future of the city - as a lakefront city and hopefully a destination for residents and visitors alike. I feel like if people could actually see a vision of what could be done on our lakefront - without the dominating presence of a large stadium - it could excite our population base and move the needle to where the funding for a new stadium location might be possible. But we’re starting with the fundamental and limiting construct that moving the stadium is impossible - so what we’re getting is 90% driven by that “reality”. Do we really see multiple thousands of people walking down from Public Square or Euclid Avenue to use a land bridge on a regular basis to walk around the new plazas outside the stadium? The new summer-ish renderings are nice , an aesthetic improvement over current reality - but I fear that, for the vast majority of days during the year- we simply won’t have many people taking the long walk from the heart of the downtown to a lakefront where there is still little to actually do there. When you look up the “best urban waterfront cities” in the country -a common theme is - a variety of things to do. Think of places like Baltimore’s inner harbor, Washington DC’s wharf, Chicago’s Navy Pier, Coney Island, NY, the San Francisco pier - all attractions to waterfronts offering much beyond being near the waterfront. Our new lakefront can’t be a beach - we know that area doesn’t support a beach - it’s an urban downtown waterfront. But Without more residential components, restaurants, entertainment and shopping options - I fear it will remain a largely underused place, except on game days. I’m pleased to see the latest plan now showing. Some residential and hotel component - I just wish the area could really be envisioned as a blank canvas for development that brings many people to the water’s edge throughout the year - but this plan is largely an aesthetic upgrade to the current waterfront - not a substantive reimagining of it unfortunately.

Still don't see much of a connection between city and lakefront even with this latest plan. The smaller land bridge kind of reminds me visually of that old theme whereas the wider land bridge did a better job of disguising that problem. DOn't get me the wrong, a new landbridge like this definitely will facilitate pedestrians heading back and forth- but it doesn't change the reality of lakefront and the city street grid being separate from each other - on either side of a big highway - at least, visually, in the new renderings.

We’re talking about downtowns lakefront.

....

I’d be just fine with something on the scale of Lakewood’s Gold Coast - the good life 24/7 for new downtown residents with ocean-like and (for higher floors, at least) skyline views - Add a boardwalk along the way for everyone to enjoy - don’t let Burke be a reason to limit our potential. North Coast baby!

Wow! That’s gonna be way cool!

I’m not saying we didn’t deserve to win today - the Browns played with toughness and grit - but the football gods finally gave them a few lucky breaks - like the missed 41 yard field goal by the 49ers and a couple questionable defensive calls against the 49ers on the Browns’ last drive. And why so many 49ers fans in our house? I was getting some Cubs’ flashbacks to the 2016 World Series! “ Destination Cleveland”might’ve been happy, but it’s hard to imagine so many SF fans flew into town for this game. I hate seeing our home field crowd looking like an L.A. home crowd!

A really nice moment from the new SW promo construction vid in this screen grab This really shows how the new HQ was designed to be a very similar in scale to 200PS across the square - and the resulting symmetry between the big 4 is going to be very effective.