jdm00

Any updates from today's meeting re: the Wasson Line?

Yeah, that explains a lot. When I was there I didn't really think of DT as encompassing all that. So I guess it's really just a question of what part of downtown is the focus.

As an outsider, my view has been that there has been a decision--conscious or not, I don't know--focusing on developing the Arena District and Short North in the past 20 years of development in C-bus, with less emphasis on downtown. I worked for a summer in downtown Columbus in 2005, and having worked in downtown Cincy the summer before, I was really struck by the differences. When we had happy hours or get togethers they were always in the Arena District or Short North and not downtown. DT seemed very focused as a 9-5 workplace with other places filling in gaps of nightlife, etc. (Not saying it's good or bad or comparing it qualitatively--it was just very different.) I think the park looks like a very nice use for City Center and that it can be very beneficial going forward.

That looks great. Hope to get over there for lunch sometime this week.

^^Are the OTR restrictions really the result of "suburban style ordinances" or because of the historical district guidelines? I actually like the small signs, though it would be cool if more were lit like Senate.

I'm not sure why you keep mentioning the BBB--which is a pay-for-membership organization, as I understand it. That's like saying they aren't a member of the Chamber of Commerce.

Wait, what? I don't think that's the set up. Everyone is guaranteed to be on a night game at least once each year with the addition of the Thursday night games, but I don't think there's any guarantee about 3.

yup, Streetcar will help bridge that. I agree. I think that capping FWW would be an even bigger help, psychologically. Toby Keith's is no farther for lunch for me than Izzy's (in fact I'm guessing it may actually be closer), but with the highway, it sure seems farther.

^I was there on Sunday, so it's entirely possible I just missed it. Also it was not like the street was really broken up or closed off or anything, which is probably a positive in the long run.

No updates. I went over to where the groundbreaking was the other day, but it looked like the dirt had been replaced. There wasn't active construction going on. I will take a look around this weekend. Maybe I can get some photos if anything is going on.

I don't know how much lunch crowd they will get there. I went to lunch at Toby Keith's last week. It's a nice space, and the food was fine--certainly up to expectations. There were some folks there, but it was certainly not crowded for lunch. But I work on 4th street, as close to the Banks as you can conceivably get, and on the walk there my co-workers were talking about the distance. That walk over Fort Washington Way is, at least psychologically, a big distance to downtown workers.

I stand corrected. The point remains, however. Sam's was on Ridge and became a Home Emporium. It is now empty, though the outlots have both an Aldi and a McDonald's (which was newly-built last fall replacing the one across the street). There was a Wal-Mart around the corner on Highland (you would go right into the parking lot if you get off at the Ridge/Kennedy exit going south on 71). It is now gone; I think it closed when the Wal-Mart in Fairfax opened. There is a Home Depot in the same shopping center, which remains open and (near as I can tell) plenty busy. I think that abandoned Wal-Mart is where the flea market (?) is.

And to add to that, I thin it's VERY doable for a couple that has two cars to move downtown and only need one car.

I walk from OTR (Vine at 14th) down to 4th street every day, including on days like today (quite the downpour). Some days it would certainly be easier to drive, but I don't think it's worth the expense (it would cost $180 for a parking pass right next to work) and the exercise is nice. I understand why others might still drive. Even living in OTR and working downtown, it's very difficult to be car free. There are things that you want to do that require auto or bus transportation. When you already have the car, it's easier to keep it and just use it less (which is what I do). I think you can sell people on that idea: you may still need a car, but you will use it much less, and save money on gas, etc., by living downtown. Then, you can bridge from a sort of "half-car" culture to maybe a "no-car" culture.

I'm sorry, what mass transit is there in Charleston SC? I have been there, it is a beautiful city, but I didn't see anyone get around in anything that wasn't a car or a horse drawn carriage.

They haven't "officially defaulted." There is quite a difference between what they are doing and a true default. They are not out of the woods, but they aren't "officially defaulting."

I don't know--my experience is a lot different than some of those described above. I work at 4th and Sycamore, and co-workers and I go various places for lunch, for example--the Banks, up to Court street, over to the Square--because there is such a great variety. And I invariably seem to run into people who work near me when I go to these places. I think there is a good amount of walking done by a lot of the folks working downtown.

You've used this "food desert" statement to describe north of Norwood (Pleasant Ridge) before. You know there's a Bigg's and Aldi about 500 feet outside the Pleasant Ridge border, right? And that the Meijer and (soon to be) Target with a grocery are just down Ridge at the Center of Cincinnati--certainly closer and easier to access to much of Pleasant Ridge than the Norwood Kroger? And don't forget the Blue Ash Kroger--folks down Ridge toward Amberley have very easy access to that store. I agree that there's not a lot in the way of grocery stores in Evanston/Avondale etc., but to keep claiming that Pleasant Ridge is somehow in a "food desert"...I just don't see it.

I think it's tough to have a lot of expectations for the project at this point. We haven't seen anything concrete yet to get excited about.

I agree that what is thought of is not big enough when it comes to a large apartment building. Downtown doesnt have any high-rise apartment buildings and it is desperately needed. I am not talking about some mid-rise building that is compact and short for apartment living, we have that; very boring, I want a view. What we need would be not just one, but several high-rise buildings in downtown and this site can offer the start of that. I remember when I wanted to move downtown it was so disappointing because I didnt have any options to live in a high-rise apartment. The real estate was not there. I was told that if I wanted to have something like that I would have to live on one of the hills to have a view or live in the Lytle apartments on the river. I didnt want to live on the river, I didnt want to live on the outskirts of downtown and I didnt want to live in an apartment building that was only a few floors up from street level. I wanted to have a view! Actual city living. I did not even have the opportunity to even choose since there isnt any. If the DH office portion wants to stay mid level, then I say fine, just at least do the apartment portion right and give high-rise living for us so we have an opportunity to live life like that. We are out there and want to live in the high-rises, just give it to us please. I don't think Jake was talking about the residential portion of the Fifth and Race site. I think it was the point that if there is, in fact, a Kroger store built as part of the Fifth and Race development, it would make sense of the OTR Kroger to close, which would lead to a nice parcel on Vine that could be developed residential.

They are really doing a nice job with this.

In addition to the matching funds, I have to think that the psychic benefits of using the previously built subway tunnels would be incalcuable. Imagine some folks not having the ability to point to the subway failure in their arguments about Cincinnati.

^What is the likelihood of that happening? Forgive my ignorance, but what entity would be overseeing something like that? OKI? The city or state?

^Not for $300k with a need to renovate.

I think the goals of the streetcar vs. light rail would be quite different. The streetcar is as much an economic development tool as it is a transit tool. You don't build streetcars to move people over long distances. With gas prices apparently rising, and the streetcar showing that projects like this can be done, now is the time to thing about actual commuter-style rail for the region. I'm sure such thinking is already going on--just wondering what is actually happening to move the ball forward (if anything).