justsomethoughts

^ I truly applaud the transit advocacy, certainly riders and RTA need a voice. But now I see we are complaining about closing off Ontario, too! Sorry, but I'm not too sympathetic to that. Walking an extra block is not that rough. Everyone can use a little exercise. RTA is not a door to door service. Never has been. Never should be. It is not limo service. It is not Uber. Inherent in public transportation is that a rider will actually have to walk a little even 1-2 blocks. And for some riders the move of the bus stations, may actually shorten their walk, not increase it. What if a rider's destination is actually closer to the new stops? Because for many riders the new stops are actually closer to their destinations. Are the advocates upset at this fact too? Because this is a reality and fact as well. As far as compensating RTA...I did not know that the RTA owned the roadways and thus if they are changed for the overall benefit of the city and it's visitors, RTA should be compensated. That being said, RTA and PS should consider a "Friends of the Park" membership to raise money. Of course, members who donate should get some minor benefit in return!

There is simply no argument against keeping Public Square unified to make the Square more enjoyable, more beautiful and most importantly more safe than turning it into two Public Rectangles. To argue the contrary is simply being argumentative and close-minded. There have been minimal to no true complaints by RTA riders about the rerouting and no loud voice about RTA commuters being late to work because of the re-routing. The dollar impact to RTA is a concern but the math is rather fuzzy. At the absolute very least, the Square should be unified all weekend Saturday-Sunday and from 11:00am to 2:00pm Mon-Fri so that the lunch time folks can enjoy a peaceful Square and not inhale carcinogenic exhaust fumes while inhaling their lunch. In reality; however, the pedestrian risks during rush hour will become confusing with the Square becoming two Rectangles. There is a reason the Square was opened as a unified Square - because it is obviously better that way! That's common sense. Ask any recent visitor if they think the Square would be better with a bus lane carving through the middle of it and they'd look at you like you were nuts! I favor protecting and encouraging walking over the very minor RTA inconvenience. Why is there no massive bus lane running through Millennium Park, Washington Square, Union Square etc...? Because it makes no sense!

^ I believe the design of these bike racks is to place your front tire in the slot and then lock your wheel; however, I am not 100% certain. If this is the design intent the bike can still be stolen without the wheel. The sharp edges of the bike rack don't make sense if the purpose is otherwise as they will scratch your bike's paint.

Already seen numerous motorbikes ride through the Square, cyclists riding on the paths causing near accidents with pedestrians, cyclists grinding their pedals on and damaging the new cement forms and wood benches, the lack of any clean-up of the stain on the cement forms, no visible security, no police presence, trees that are looking too dry, the lawn starting to brown, the beds are too dry..... Already, there seems to be a lack of on-site security/park workers to control behavior and a lack of maintenance. Incredible error in staining the wood benches, after they were installed, thereby damaging the cement. Very odd that park rules are not posted. Should consider not allowing cycling on the diagonal paths. Looked great from the start....hopefully they raise the remaining couple of million dollars for maintenance (both ongoing and preventive) and hopefully there is the foresight to establish park rules and post them at prominent entrances.

^ Respectfully, how does having a bus stop moved just 25-50 yards add up to hundreds of thousands of dollars? Is there an unbiased study on this. There is no significant fuel usage increase nor man hour increase.

^^SixthCity "Quick question - does anyone have an opinion about the roof of the cafe?" Yes, should have been a green roof, as previously discussed on this thread. I am very impressed with the signage that gives recognition to the very generous corporate donors. These carved stone pavers are tastefully done with no intrusion into the aesthetic. Great job! This should silence all of the negative Clevelanders who were so concerned about this and who paint too broad of a negative brush against all corporate entities. Without them, this park would not exist. Kudos!!! If anyone can post photos of these I would greatly appreciate it. (I've only seen a few on other websites) Read more: http://www.urbanohio.com/forum2/index.php/topic,6560.2520.html#ixzz4Cb3Hkic5

^ Agree! The current traffic situation is not awful. Looking at the webcam at all hours, the traffic is not that bad and it is empty on the weekends...thus the bus lane should certainly be closed on the weekends. Already saw a guy on a mountain bike jump on to the concrete benches and wood benches and ride his bike on them with his pedals scratching the cement and wood. No security in site to police the Square....why am I not surprised. Chicago's Millennium Park is rife with Police and private park security and park workers to monitor behavior. Public Square needs to curb this crap ASAP.

^^^"The Terminal Tower's twitter account tweeted this photo earlier today of what appears to be an invitational banner to be hung in place of the art installation on Public Square. Read more: http://www.urbanohio.com/forum2/index.php/topic,6560.2485.html#ixzz4CHFdaDI8" That photo from the Terminal Tower's Twitter account just proves that the design of that cafe was incredibly careless - an afterthought that was changed last minute. All of those exposed mechanicals, exhaust pipes and Roof Top Units should have been hidden under a 100% green roof. There would not have been any real cost difference and the $3 million from the Northeast Ohio Regional Sewer District to improve water run off should have and could have funded this. Inexcusable!

Sherman Cahal Premium Member "I hate to inform you, but the stain was applied before the benches were installed. The planks were stained from the manufacturer. When exposed to the elements, the stain will bleed out - it's a pretty common event to happen. I've assembled plenty of these benches and can attest to this somehow new phenomenon to you." hahaha! Sherman, respectfully, you are 100% wrong. Sorry. I hate to inform you (to use your words). If properly done, this should not happen. If they were stained off site, the common practice is to let the stain dry and "cure." The next step is to either apply a sealant which prevents bleeding of the stain or to spray the benches to wash out all bleeding PRIOR to installing them so that the benches do not stain and damage the concrete. Neither of these two crucial post-staining procedures were done and this then results in damage to the new concrete and more billable hours to fix the mistake. Settling for mediocrity due to ignorance is laughable. Read more: http://www.urbanohio.com/forum2/index.php/topic,6560.2450.html#ixzz4Bgj5ibxm

Common sense would have the crews apply stains and protectants on the benches BEFORE installing them. Common sense would be to apply the stain to ALL surfaces of the wood and not just half of the surfaces. In this case, the underside was not treated and this is where the water damage will be the most significant as gravity exists and this is where water will come to rest, soaking the wood surface. The wood should be treated uniformly on all surfaces. Here they only treated the exposed surface of the installed benches. Pure stupidity to not stain and seal ALL surfaces BEFORE installing them. The benches should be uninstalled and the underside of the wood surface should be stained and sealed properly - otherwise the useful life of these will be cut in half and obviously there is no precedent for preventive maintenance in Cleveland. The width of the Bus Lane carving through the square was so much wider than I expected - it looks as wide as a four lane highway - rather wide for one lane of buses but may be nice for Farmer's Markets and Art Fairs. I also noticed yesterday, that the beautiful white picket fence in the Huntington Bank plaza that faces public square was being fixed - they were reattaching loose aluminum pickets. I asked the crews when and if this was going to be replaced, as it looks ridiculous and they flatly said "No!" Though who knows how informed they are.

Just visited Public Square. Looking nice but rather surprised that they did not take the opportunity to clean and touch-up the Soldiers' and Sailors' Monument. It is incredibly filthy with black soot. The sandstone is simply dirty and has not been adequately cleaned since it reopenned 6 years ago in June 2010. It is a glaring omission in this great new park. Perhaps this much needed cleaning is in the works, but I highly doubt it. (Same goes with City Hall. The exterior facade is representative of a complete lack maintenance and filth - it too is full of grime and black soot - and I'm surprised it was not cleaned in preparation for the convention, and more importantly, just cleaned as part of a regular maintenance program.)

TPH2, Thanks for the photos! The concrete forms have several grooves that create a nice design element and I assume are a skate deterrent. Do you know if true skate deterrents such as Skate Stoppers will be installed? In the vein of preventive maintenance, it would be prudent to install them before the damage occurs. And they actually look nice too! Photo is of the new River Walk in Chicago which has large concrete forms for seating and landscape borders, all with skate deterrents. One block of the River Walk was late to install them by about 1 week and the concrete got extremely damaged by skate boarders.

^^ Personally, I think the park should have been renamed. There is much precedent for this in other cities when they renovate or build new city parks. As the Public Square neighborhood is now becoming more residential, such urban parks become quite crucial for city dwellers whose growth is so vital for downtown. These new urban parks don't need to be meccas for protests and marches. Especially when there is a large vacant lot right next to PS where the protest stage could have been located. Oh well, I guess we should just let the brand new $50 million space get trampled on and vandalized and be sure to protect the vacant city lots and parking lots because it's in the constitution - which I believe was written by authors who felt women shouldn't vote and slavery should be legal - but as HtsGuy pointed out above, I'm no constitutional scholar ;-)

So excited to see the completed project and truly hope the materials and maintenance can hold up. Amazed and disappointed (and dumbfounded) that the City has decided to immediately make the new urban park/square the focal point of anger, protests, marches, controversy, and negativity instead of a tourist, resident and city-worker place of enjoyment, beauty, serenity and entertainment. MUST READ: http://www.cleveland.com/rnc-2016/index.ssf/2016/05/newly_updated_public_square_wi.html#lf_comment=514991888 INVITING the protests and marches to establish their home base in Public Square immediately after it opens will potentially destroy the park's first impression, as it is televised nationally (and internationally) full of angry anarchists and protesters and damaged by the inevitable. There are so many city owned surface lots and vacant lots where a protest stage could have been erected. To use the new beautiful public square as the epicenter of protests is simply dumb. No way Chicago would permit this in Millennium Park. No way would NYC permit this on the HighLine as soon as it opened etc. The immediate damage to the park is certain - to the physical space, landscaping, hardscape and perhaps equally important to its spirit and the revitalization that it represents. What a shame!

^Wow, that was a fast reply! Thanks so much. Hopefully it gets done with some good landscaping.