cbussoccer

Lancaster is still a self-sustaining community with its remaining employers (see the Anchor Hocking post). But as the Columbus metro area has grown, it is probably at least partially functioning as a commuter exurb of Columbus now. Especially if you look at how close Lancaster is to Rickenbacker. At only 10 miles away, you would think a significant portion of Lancaster residents are employed in the thousands of warehousing & distribution jobs at Rickenbacker. I agree that it's pretty self-sustaining. You can pretty much live in Lancaster and never have any need to travel up 33 to Columbus. However, many people do for jobs that are a bit better and higher paying than what is available in Lancaster. I know of many people that live in the Lancaster area, but have good pay jobs in Columbus. People tend to move out to the area because they like the more country feel and they can get more for their money. It's certainly more self-sustaining than a Marysville, but then again it has twice the population of Marysville. Lancaster has their own mall, pretty much every major grocery store or restaurant chain, a historic part of town with shops and restaurants, fairgrounds, and any government services you might need.

You said it would be a 39 mph train. That is not correct. You said phasing suggests that following phases do not happen with passenger rail. That is not correct. And if you make erroneous assertions like these and present them as opinion, then I can certainly understand why you believe that this forum does not handle opinion well. I said it would average 39mph, with a top speed of 79mph at its inception. That is a fact. Future phases were contingent on receiving future funding. That is a fact. Those are facts that apparently offend you.

The facts I stated were not wrong just as the facts that you stated were not wrong. We just had a difference of opinion, something that this forum does not handle well.

I love how you tell me to continue this conversation in another thread when a) I didn’t even bring it up, and b) you are the one that felt the need to “correct” my “false information” and turn it into a big debate. Sorry for having a differing opinion though. Please correct me next time my opinion differs from yours.

So $400M to implement a passenger rail that would have been a worse travel option than driving would have been a good investment?

So you think a significant number of people would spend 5.5 hours every day on the train plus the time it takes them to commute from their house to the train station? I don't. But the next phase of improvements, bringing the CLE-COL travel time down to 1.5 hours (and less from a suburban station) would start to change the economic dynamic in Ohio. Key words: "Next phase" That was the issue, not some conspiracy theory to enhance Columbus and kill of Cleveland, or evil republicans being mean. It was the fact that we were going to spend $400 million to implement a train that would get you from one city to another no quicker than driving, and then we would maybe make it better in the future if we could get everything figured out later on.

This was a false narrative pushed by those intent on killing it. I worked very closely on this project, and the 6.5 hour travel time was based on NO IMPROVEMENTS to the rail corridor. Many of my friends at the state level were very angry at Amtrak for publicly releasing this because they knew that the opponents of this project would use it as the final travel time. The actual travel time with $400 million worth of improvements was five hours, with 2 1/4 hours from downtown Cleveland to downtown Columbus, and 2 hours flat from the SW suburban Cleveland station to downtown Columbus, for an average speed in the low 60s mph. Furthermore, this project was only the first step, with the trains designed to accommodate top speeds of 110-125 mph. The project would have including the engineering funding for the next step, to upgrade the 79 mph service to 110 mph. The funding for upgrades like this was available through a $35 billion federal low interest loan program with another $1.5 billion in grants available this year. So had the project been built and the planning undertaken for the next phase, the state would be making funding applications to reduce the Cleveland-Cincinnati travel time to 3.5 hours and the Cleveland-Columbus travel time to 1.5 hours. Sorry but I had this correct this ongoing misunderstanding that should never have been misunderstood, if not for Ohio's toxic politics that have done nothing but shot itself in the economic foot. It's why the entire state is being held back from its potential, not just any one city. I'm well aware of all of the future potential improvements. The fact was, spending hundreds of millions of dollars to implement a useless system was not feasible. I would love a legit high speed rail connecting the three Cs just as much as anyone else on this message board, but all politics aside it was a crappy plan. With the $400 million in improvements to reduce the travel time to 2 1/4 hours, that means we would have just spent $400 million to implement a passenger rail that gets you from point A to point B in the exact same amount of time it would take you drive from point A to point B. It's just not feasible. Now, I fully understand the argument that future improvements could have made the the speeds higher and the travel time shorter, but that was contingent on future funding, among many other things. That's a high risk endeavor. Come up with a plan to get a legit high speed rail right off the bat and I'm all for it, but this failed plan did not accomplish that.

So you think a significant number of people would spend 5.5 hours every day on the train plus the time it takes them to commute from their house to the train station?

Are you looking at metro area numbers? If not, I think that would be a more appropriate method of comparing the cities.

Another way in which the State of Ohio has been favoring Columbus over the 2C's and Dayton: By killing the 3C rail, it kindof forced people to move to Columbus if they found a job there and previously lived in Cleveland or Cincinnati. I live in Cleveland and was once offered a job by a company in Columbus. As I certainly would not want to live in Columbus, the only way to do it would be to commute from CLE. The train would have made that possible. But driving 4 hrs each day makes it less practical. So for people who can't say 'no' to an offer, they are forced to move to Columbus instead of living in their preferred city. You are aware that the proposed train would not have transported you from Columbus to Cleveland any faster than hopping in your car and driving down 71, right? The train would have taken 6.5 hours to travel from Cincinnati to Cleveland averaging just 39 mph and topping out at 79 mph. But yea, this was all just a big conspiracy to make sure that Columbus gained population and Cleveland didn't.

And Pataskala, or Etna to be more specific. There are a ton of warehouse jobs there too with Amazon and various others. Columbus isn't getting Clevelands hip young professionals. Our blue collar workers are moving to fill your warehouse and factory jobs. There's a lot of population and migration data out there that supports this. I'll post as soon as I can find it. Hmmm, not sure about that first simply based on my personal experiences, but if you have data I would love to see it. OSU is full of Clevelanders, many of whom stay in Columbus after graduation. Logically speaking, I don't buy the idea that people who work in warehouses are moving from Cleveland to Columbus for a new warehouse job. It's hard enough to move 20 minutes to the suburb next door, let alone move two and a half hours down 71 for a new warehouse job. Again, this is solely based on my experience and using logic, but if you can find that data I would love to see it. Your personal experience and use of "logic" couldn't possibly know or understand the intricacies of intra-county people/demographic migration. Impossible. Relax there sport, I understand that. That is why I was asking for your data. It doesn't make sense to me for the reasons I laid out, and as a result I want to see the data. I'm not saying you are wrong, I'm simply saying I want to see the data to prove you are right. Until then, all I have is my personal experience and my logic. The irony of someone making an assertion without data and then calling you out for questioning it based on the fact that you didn't give any data. I, too, would like to see the data. Most of my college friends were from the Cleveland area and only one of them ended up back there. Multiple are in Columbus now. It's anecdotal, but until I see data otherwise it's all I got. This isn't a knock on Cleveland either. I love Cleveland and would love to see it retain more college grads and even attract people from around the country. I do think it suffers, though, in that it doesn't have a major state university. Lots of folks from all over Ohio go to OU and OSU and then end up in Columbus because of proximity and networking. Over half of UC grads stay in Cincy for the same reason. CSU just doesn't have the same pull across the state. Exactly. I was very upfront with the fact that I didn't have data, only my personal experience and logic, but I would be interested to see the data that this person was speaking of. Also, I was not trying to take a shot at Cleveland. I love all three of the big cities in Ohio and I see no reason to bash any of them. I simply trying to have a conversation about population in Ohio since, ya know, this is the Ohio population trends thread.

Yeah, like 5. Hardly any warehouses pay more than about $16/hr for starting positions. Thousands have left the cleveland metro area for blue collar work in cbus. Literally thousands. Factory/warehouse as well as other positions in all of the different trades. Some of those jobs pay well over 16/hr. What we would like to see is the data proving that Columbus is getting the blue collar workers from Cleveland rather than the young professionals like you initially suggested.

And Pataskala, or Etna to be more specific. There are a ton of warehouse jobs there too with Amazon and various others. Columbus isn't getting Clevelands hip young professionals. Our blue collar workers are moving to fill your warehouse and factory jobs. There's a lot of population and migration data out there that supports this. I'll post as soon as I can find it. Hmmm, not sure about that first simply based on my personal experiences, but if you have data I would love to see it. OSU is full of Clevelanders, many of whom stay in Columbus after graduation. Logically speaking, I don't buy the idea that people who work in warehouses are moving from Cleveland to Columbus for a new warehouse job. It's hard enough to move 20 minutes to the suburb next door, let alone move two and a half hours down 71 for a new warehouse job. Again, this is solely based on my experience and using logic, but if you can find that data I would love to see it. Your personal experience and use of "logic" couldn't possibly know or understand the intricacies of intra-county people/demographic migration. Impossible. Relax there sport, I understand that. That is why I was asking for your data. It doesn't make sense to me for the reasons I laid out, and as a result I want to see the data. I'm not saying you are wrong, I'm simply saying I want to see the data to prove you are right. Until then, all I have is my personal experience and my logic.

And Pataskala, or Etna to be more specific. There are a ton of warehouse jobs there too with Amazon and various others. Columbus isn't getting Clevelands hip young professionals. Our blue collar workers are moving to fill your warehouse and factory jobs. There's a lot of population and migration data out there that supports this. I'll post as soon as I can find it. Hmmm, not sure about that first simply based on my personal experiences, but if you have data I would love to see it. OSU is full of Clevelanders, many of whom stay in Columbus after graduation. Logically speaking, I don't buy the idea that people who work in warehouses are moving from Cleveland to Columbus for a new warehouse job. It's hard enough to move 20 minutes to the suburb next door, let alone move two and a half hours down 71 for a new warehouse job. Again, this is solely based on my experience and using logic, but if you can find that data I would love to see it.

There are some "hip" advancements in agriculture and state-level government operations, I guess. I'll agree that Columbus has had more job growth than Cleveland in recent years, but I've never heard of Columbus, OH being perceived by anyone as a 'hip' city, especially when compared to Cleveland. If I had to rank the 3C's--it would be CLE, Cinci, Columbus. I love Cincy and Cleveland both, especially Cincy (I live here after all). But among my peer group (late 20s, early 30s) Columbus is definitely seen as the most hip of the three, hands down. It's really not even close. It's a hot destination for young professionals from all over the Midwest and even the east coast. When I lived on the east coast and said I was from Ohio I often heard people saying they wanted to check out Columbus because they've heard good things. That was never the case with Cincy or Cleveland unfortunately. The old "cow town" reputation of Cbus is pretty unknown among people under 35 I'd say. Interesting...again I love the diversity of the pedestrians on the Columbus streets...but I’m curious what makes Columbus more hip? I found that a lot of what short north had wasn’t that different than otr/Pendleton has (as far as the density of bars and over priced restaurants are concerned) ...expect short north is way father gentrified than otr. To me, what made the area seem hip was the people, and from many of them that I talked to were students at osu. Again, there is more to Columbus than the SN. I know a ton of people that spend every weekend in the SN and I know a ton of people that never go to the SN. There are also many more factors that effect population growth than simply the "hip vibe" of the city. Columbus is very easy to navigate around. Columbus is relatively cheap. Columbus is convenient for recent college grads of one of the largest universities in the country. Columbus is a very easy city to live in. All of these factor into population growth. If you are simply going to focus on how hip the city you are going to miss a lot of the reasons that are driving the growth.

I would imagine most mid-size cities like Columbus or Cincinnati have concentrated pockets of street energy. Indianapolis has Broad-Ripple, Austin has 6th Street, etc. Obviously you're not going to find that in mostly residential neighborhoods away from the core. And I actually don't think the Short North caters to mostly OSU students. In fact, it seems to be the opposite where a lot of the people coming to the SN these days are older suburbanites. I think the SN caters to a good mix of folks. You can find a hangout spot no matter what your age is. Once you go north of the Kroger on High Street you get into the area where pretty much everything is catered to OSU students, but that is not part of the SN.

There are some "hip" advancements in agriculture and state-level government operations, I guess. I'll agree that Columbus has had more job growth than Cleveland in recent years, but I've never heard of Columbus, OH being perceived by anyone as a 'hip' city, especially when compared to Cleveland. If I had to rank the 3C's--it would be CLE, Cinci, Columbus. I love Cincy and Cleveland both, especially Cincy (I live here after all). But among my peer group (late 20s, early 30s) Columbus is definitely seen as the most hip of the three, hands down. It's really not even close. It's a hot destination for young professionals from all over the Midwest and even the east coast. When I lived on the east coast and said I was from Ohio I often heard people saying they wanted to check out Columbus because they've heard good things. That was never the case with Cincy or Cleveland unfortunately. The old "cow town" reputation of Cbus is pretty unknown among people under 35 I'd say. Truth. Also, let's not pretend the SN is the only "cool" place in the city. Pockets of downtown are really starting to become popular with the younger professional crowd. Grandview is like a young professional's paradise. Even Easton, for as much crap as us Urban-obsessed weirdos like to give it, is incredibly popular even with the young professional crowd. There is far more to Columbus than just the SN, and if you only limit yourself to the SN you will completely miss how it is that Columbus is booming.

And Pataskala, or Etna to be more specific. There are a ton of warehouse jobs there too with Amazon and various others.

Based on this comment, it sounds like the last time you visited Columbus was at least 10 years ago.

I'll add that college grads from OU, Kent, Akron, and BGSU who used to end up in Cleveland in large numbers are increasingly ending up in Columbus. There are more jobs that college grads are looking for there, the weather is better, and it's perceived as being a more hip city. Add Miami to this list. In my experience, at least in the finance and business world, Columbus companies recruit Miami just as hard as they recruit OSU and OU.

^ That is exactly what I've always thought. It almost looks like it was built next to a taller building and then the taller building was torn down.

It would be amazing if that narrow surface lot on the north side of this building could get developed. It's one of the few remaining surface lots on High, and in a prime location.

Keep in mind that there are numerous scenarios in which both cities could end up with a team when all is said and done. There are numerous rumors floating around from credible sources that the future of the Crew (or an MLS team) in Columbus will not necessarily be determined by what happens in Austin.

^ It will be interesting to see how these two areas will compete for events. I would guess that the volleyball and cheerleading competitions will remain at the convention center and this development will offer up indoor space for sports such as soccer that require a much larger playing area.

Huge development news for Delaware County. A "multi-billion dollar" entertainment development is planned to break ground in December on 350 acres near the Tanger Outlet Mall. https://www.bizjournals.com/columbus/news/2018/06/28/billion-dollar-plus-amusement-park-planned-on-350.html