westlake10

To your first point, I'm a little confused. Are you implying that tax dollars should not be used in such a way that benefits the taxpaying public in a measurable and efficient way? To your second point, what exactly are the parameters you are using to define the justice center as "falling apart"? How about some specifics instead of emotionally charged rhetoric? They better be catastrophic issues to justify the MILLIONS it will take to replace such a structure rather than renovate or simply cope with it as it is. To your third point, it's absolutely absurd to suggest that spending millions (billions?) to demolish one of the largest buildings in the city and construct a brand new building to serve as justice center as well as regional jail is 'saving the taxpayers money'. This is the absolute lie that all big government types use to push their plans through. Show me one good example of a government project that ran under budget and can be shown empirically to save taxpayers money in the short and long term. I know you don't like my attitude toward these government entities and projects but to be frank it is people like me who will end up footing the bill for this kind of stuff and at the same time I'm faced with the reality of having to leave the city with some of the highest taxes in the state once I have children because the schools continue to be pathetic despite all the funding they squander.

For the love of god why does the topic of a new Justice Center keep arising as it does in the article linked above? How do we as taxpayers stand to benefit? The justice center serves a simple and utilitarian purpose and does not produce any return on investment.

Maybe the space can be utilized as an isolation chamber for the Cleveland City Council. I envision a virtual reality or possibly an augmented reality space where council members can discuss the generation and implementation of new regulations and taxes with virtual citizens and special interest groups. This way they can satisfy their desire for power and influence while simultaneously preventing such enactments from actually happening, thereby solving Cleveland's #1 issue which is population stagnation and loss. I'm hoping this can all be done in a green and sustainable way, naturally.

Honestly parking is the biggest issue with FEB whether it's Jan or July. Despite all the hopes and dreams, people simply do not want to take public transit to the restaurants and have so so many options in other places where parking is easy and free. Keep it free year round and offer more parking in more locations.

Holy hell those $/sf. numbers are high. Hope they sell for ask.

Yep, sounds just like student housing ? New construction is a funny thing. I'm not sure how much experience you have with it, but my limited knowledge and research points to a few key takeaways regarding new vs old. What defines new construction more than almost anything is emphasis on energy efficiency, preventing water ingress, and sustainability. The reality is that most newer types of construction are of good "quality" when using these parameters but don't have the same "solid" feel of older builds because of the materials that are being used to meet these parameters. Add to that the ever-increasing cost of conforming to gov't regs and inspections and you have some of the problems you mention at the Edison.

I can only imagine that the success of the Edison was the culmination of a few favorable factors including but not limited to the good economic timing, a fresh, up-and-coming neighborhood, the recent revitalization of Edgewater Beach, and the fact that the Edison has a pool. One thing I notice about the Edison which is different than most other projects in the area is how closely it resembles typical "upscale" college apartments surrounding OSU in Columbus. I think it's possible that recent college grads looking to continue that same lifestyle they're comfortable with felt right at home in the Edison with its quads and inward oriented units. Battery Park Lofts I'm sure will end up fully leased but it does seem to appeal to a slightly more mature crowd than the Edison. To me, BPL doesn't quite have the gravitas of The Shoreway which is an absolutely impeccably designed and executed project that constantly has a waiting list to get into.

Not surprised to see the architect of this project is the same one who did Battery Park Townhomes. On their own the design is okay, I just wish these architects would switch up their design language from project to project. I get that they're trying to have a "signature" look but these new ones are just going to only contribute to the oversaturation of the housing market in Gordon Square while not contributing anything interesting architecturally.

I agree with you guys above that the construction methods for the Edison (and I can only assume the Phase 2 addition) are not built to a 200 year standard. Look around at other projects and other cities for that matter in this area and you'll see much of the same. Columbus is probably the best example where there are plenty of housing communities very similar to the Edison. I'm obviously not a developer myself so I can't say with certainty what keeps these people from building more "lasting" structures but I can only assume they build what they can in the rent climate in which they are developing. Maybe if we were in NYC and an 800 SF unit was renting for $3600/mo then you'd see some higher end construction techniques and finishes but Cleveland is obviously not there and probably never will be. I can however say from first-hand experience that there are some select developers in Cleveland who really are building high quality residences that will stand the test of time. Some of these would include the Fairmont Creamery, The Shoreway in Battery Park, and W25th Lofts. Granted each of these projects utilized existing structures and built out from there so it is not totally analogous.

I think there are some really good points made above. KJP is completely on-point in regard to the expense involved in hiding the parking structure. It's so easy to nitpick behind a computer screen and people act like developers just bathe in money and that these projects have a virtually unlimited budget. They don't. I also agree that it looks like freaking college housing. It's almost appropriate in a way however because most of the residents of the Edison for example have just graduated from college and still want that "college housing feel" (based on how fast the Edison leased out upon opening). Personally I think it is ill-befitting of the neighborhood and I'd love to see something a little more industrial looking or at the very least something pursuing a "capital A architecture" design aesthetic but who are we to say? None of us have done the types of studies or research that the developers have so let them do their thing with the land they purchased.

Yes you're completely right. The abandoned, condemned, and dangerous homes being demolished are tooottallyyyyyy inhibiting people's ability to settle in Cleveland. Nailed it.

I stand corrected regarding ridership then. I walk around my place of work downtown near Public Square and my impression on bus ridership is based on what I see there which are buses carrying maybe 10-15 people at a time. Perhaps Gordon Square is different (although I have to laugh at the people assuming I live in Westlake. I live on W. 74th so I'm intimately familiar with the are). Regardless, I'm still far from convinced that the RTA system is the most cost-effective use of taxpayer dollars and I'm sure many will disagree with that. I'd be happy to debate it in PMs since this is a development thread.

Reality is that there's no good justification for RTA expansion, especially in that area. You already have these gigantic buses typically carrying two or three people which is highly inefficient. Cleveland is simply too drivable to make sense for mass transit. There's plenty of parking, very little traffic, etc. I still don't quite grasp the fetishization of the RTA on this forum.

The parcel map doesn't seem to give full indication. What's also interesting to me is that the former railroad spur parcel was acquired by the same firm building the Cyan Park townhomes. The ROW goes behind the NRP Group expansion site, behind the park itself, and curves NW toward the intersection of Breakwater and West 65th, thus providing the possibility for a dedicated hiking/biking path to Edgewater Park. But it also creates a boundary around the parcels along the south side of Breakwater Ave which haven't sold in years but appear to have new ownership names associated with them. I click on parcels in this area regularly and don't remember these names being associated with these parcels. So perhaps what happened here is what mjarboe[/member] wrote about recently -- instead of buying land, companies are buying the companies that own the land. BTW, the Breakwater Ave parcel just east of the SE corner of West 65th lists to CROWN CASTLE TOWERS 09 LLC whose mailing address is a UPS Store mailbox in Cannonsburg, PA, near Pittsburgh. WTF. Your assumption about the park to beach path in the w58th area is correct. I've hears firsthand that the plan (along with the renovation of Herman park) is to create a bike/walking path that connect the Herman Park area to the pathway going to Edgewater

The SuperElectric art piece just went up on the corner of Lake and Detroit the other night.