YABO713

Query: is there some person or entity who could recruit a Gilbert type (if not Gilbert himself) to back such a project? The Loop, esp the Huron subway version, would directly impact Gilbert's casino in a positive way. In all honesty, I think people would resist if it were Gilbert just because he has his name on it. I think you'd need a Beth Mooney via Key Bank or a collaboration of prominent Cleveland companies with their HQ downtown - MedMu, SW, Jones Day, Squire Patton Boggs, Forest City, or AmeriTrust.

As of right now, NuCLEus is mythical. It would be like engaging in a discussion about the Loch Ness Monster or Big Foot and not discussing the human psyche that feeds the belief and disbelief.

1) KJP[/member] - great info 2) There isn't any real momentum for this project, is there?

tj111[/member] I love that Churchill quote. There's also the story that Socrates uses in "The Republic" against direct democracy... If you had to take a ship on a transcontinental journey, and you were not allowed to choose your captain, would you rather have the general populace vote on who should captain your ship, or rather a panel of nautical experts? Johnson himself isn't the brightest, hearing him speak next to Zone, Reed, McCormick, and Kelly really makes that apparent. However, he is a tremendous manipulator, he knows how to play to feelings. That's all this is and that's really all his opposition to the Q amounts to. Opposition to a local billionaire will score big points in most neighborhoods in Cleveland, even in instances when it will benefit locally owned business.

I noticed that. I wonder if it is being done this way for structural purposes.

I literally saw men in hard hats in the garage in May.. curb that enthusiasm for the time being. But, I have faith in down4cle[/member] and he has dispelled the rumors of a late-fall or early winter groundbreaking.

Stupid question - what is BF

So can we get back to talking about the building....

Anyways, back to NuCLEus... has the design remained the same?

I support Jeff Johnson because I, too, know nothing about economics.

Agreed on all counts... But the swinging the bat portion is what should get him into the HOF, not the trashy low-life portion. Otherwise Ty Cobb and Honus Wagner might not be there either.

*looks out window toward Euclid Ave, taps fingers on desk patiently awaiting a crane to impede the view*

The focus needs to turn on sustainability. Volume will continue to grow, but without equity Downtown there is always the possibility that we are left with one Hell of a bubble. It is a bit of a "chicken or the egg" situation, though - developers won't spend money on a condo highrise or conversion until the down payments are there; the down payments won't be there until more comps are available.

^to be perfectly candid, my girlfriend had told me I'm late June she was followed by a group of 5-6 men who wouldn't stop following her along the river (to where the fountain is across from Nautica) until she was on the phone with 9-1-1. I know these stories are usually overblown, but she's a particularly thick-skinned person. The fact that she even had to call really told me she might've been in trouble. EastEnd lost much of its management team over the winter and has since taken a turn for the worst. Otherwise phenomenal location, though

I seldom do this, KJP[/member] but I disagree with you. I think a move to purchase is a sign that they're committed to revamping the building. It's becoming more and more unusual for companies to actually own their HQ, and acquiring the property, in my opinion, shows a doubling down of sorts on the Rose Building.

K&D needs to start adding equity downtown to match their rental portfolio. Without it, they risk major fluctuations with a rental bubble

Went down to FEB last night... on the whole, I still love it; however... 1. The traffic situation - even with reduced parking - was COMPLETELY out of control. I walked back to Stonebridge and had to wait 15 minutes outside for my friend who took a lyft from Beerhead. 2. There might be a need for greater security. We were sitting on the patio at Beerhead and out of nowhere, a group of 10-12 people walk up and take out camera equipment. Then I spot a woman in lingerie dancing while being filmed in between Beerhead and Coastal Taco for what appeared to be a rap video. Midway through, a group of 12-15 motor cycles rolled through, also as part of the video. This attracted quite a crowd, a portion of whom began fighting with each other and, at one point, led to a group turning and sprinting from the situation, which caused a small panic. I don't want to sound like an old fogey, but I don't think allowing freelance music videos in the middle of walking paths is a great way to encourage people to barhop

WHAT A BUNCH OF SQUARES. SQUARESVILLE, I TELL YA

If they did a "piece-by-piece" conversion to condos, those would be bought FAST. I know I've caught flack on here for saying this, but the apartments still have a high vacancy rate relative to downtown. Any Trulia search will always show 5-10 units available at any particular time which, for downtown, is not usual

Well now that this page is done being locked for no reason, down4cle[/member] how confident is your source that it will break ground in August? Additionally, going to be interesting to see where they place the crane.

^i just think people get so caught up in carrying over the (well founded) fight against the 1% that they end up losing sight of who has the most to lose.

Look, Dan Gilbert is now a multi-billionaire and I get that he shouldn't need help... But our personal grievances with the sourcing of finance - particularly the absence of private funds - ends up hurting those that need it most. Okay, so we go on a moral crusade to ensure that Dan Gilbert doesn't take tax payer money that could be spent elsewhere. I completely get that and, to an extent, I support it. But a war on the 1% often has the bottom 10% on the front lines. It's über drivers, hotel workers, local venders, waitresses, stage hands, private security, and the like who will pay for this if the financing doesn't pass. Thereby leaving us void of a sizeable tax amount to the county. Were we morally just in our fight? Sure. But I assure, Dan Gilbert will be fine with or without the renovations; I'm not sure I can say the same for local business.

I'm normally not "just shut up and fall in line" guy, but business owners will be FURIOUS if these people cost the city an all star weekend

Boy, they sure showed him! :x Right? One of my secret career ambitions as I get older is to institute and East Coast style preparatory academy in Cleveland, dormitories and all. It's impossible for even the best seed on the planet to grow on asphalt. Ideally, I'd love to have one on the West Side, in a neighborhood like DS, and one on the East Side. But, that's a topic for another thread and I digress.

I agree with you--they just don't need to be right on Detroit Ave with a view of the lake and downtown. If CSMD sold the property, or perhaps thought outside the box to do a multi-use facility via an outside developer, they would bring in more money for the students of the district. That's a great point. Outside investment gives the best opportunity for local kids to thrive. I was speaking with a friend from college who teaches in CMSD. He told me his biggest challenge is keeping his gifted students safe on the way to and from school. Specifically, he has a student who gained admission to Vanderbilt, and on acceptance day he wore a Vanderbilt sweat shirt to school. He was knocked unconscious on his way home by drop-outs who thought his apparel was a boast that he was better than them.