snakebite

Pessimistic? Sure probably, but I don't think he hates the city, sounds far more disappointed than happy that we can't keep things Downtown. Theres some good stuff going on like what Dan Gilbert is doing, the SHW building, some other building rehabs, the possible soccer stadium and I'm confident David Blitzer will in time be an asset to Downtown, we do actually have some positive local political leaders too. However between these various losses and the constant lingering threats over the years when leases come up like Gray Media, Amtrust, the FBI, the struggles to fill empty/underutilized buildings and the many empty surface lots, my feeling is we are sort of just about attemping to keep our heads above the water. Heck its been hard enough to keep city jobs like the Police HQ down there. What is equally tough though aside from development is outside of places like this and a handful of other outlets like Signal Cleveland, is the mentality of most people, they don't understand or even care. All they know is the strip mall convenience life and the fear mongering about crime and traffic/parking Downtown. To be fair, I don't think this suburban mindset is entirely unique to Cleveland, its not like we are the only metro area having this problem.

I see the "Fraternal Order of Police of Ohio" have endorsed the project. Pretty bottom of the barrel lengths to evidence support for the project. Most cops I've come across even those who work in urban areas are about the worst when it comes to understanding urban living. Most seem to live a very suburban even rural lifestyle, drive pickup trucks etc.

No new routes due to start just now either. This is why I can't get too excited about the airport overhaul. It's lipstick on a pig. NEO is a stagnant market and just as so when it comes to commercial aviation. CAK is also in the background with its share of low cost traffic and is plodding along with mainline service of its own too. We have two airports basically affecting each other instead of one strong offering and it's going to hold us back as much as the crap sprawl and disinvestment people are pushing in Downtown. We don't help ourselves.

There's definitely appetite for more airport parking, within the context of the wealth within the NFL and major mixed use development however the revenues generated from this are a drop in the ocean. Certainly not the generational opportunity that has been touted. I thought they would have announced some smaller retail/bar & restaurant commitals by now as opposed to larger office tenants or something like that, even concepts off their own back like the Browns gym or a bar and grill with some famous players name across the front. Either the demand truly sucks or their public intentions aren't the reality.

That's what I mean. She clearly should be nowhere near that position. Her influence on this matter has made the organization look unfit for purpose so I totally support ostracizing them until they can get their house in order. I have to say I am rather sceptical Dee Haslam became involved in GCP for the greater good and not to advance her families business interests in the city, so they get what they deserve for being so gullible to even allow her to railroad her way into things.

GCP got played, useful idiots to the Haslams, but they've now cut their nose off to spite their face. Enjoy the consequences.

Spending more money is their last resort lol. They are going to foot fans with the bill in the name of PSLs and maybe try to stinge a loan from the NFL stadium improvement program. And I say f*ck em, many of the fans cheering for this are the same ones going to be complaining when they are asked to fork out four to five figures for the right to buy a season ticket. They will just hang off post June 30 to avoid jeopardising this.

Yeah, I'm still half expecting them to reduce the stadium to basically a clone of the new Buffalo Bills one. Listening to "Browns backers" who want tailgating space and the tradition of outdoor football or something, however they spin it. Most PSL projections do not seem to live up their expectations. Even in the trendy cities. However I don't doubt they'll still do it as opposed to just putting more of their own money in if they can avoid it. The average person will almost certainly be priced out unless they are willing to make some sacrifices, nevermind for their season tickets.

Oh I feel really bad for the businesses on W 6th and the hotels at the north end of Downtown. They definitely are going to feel a pinch. Despite the way NFL stadiums get s**t on in terms of their economic spin off, there is research that shows on the weekend of games hotels in close proxmity to stadiums tend to see their occupancy surge, but south of Euclid, I think that area will be alright for the most part and won't suffer too much. Downtown and Cleveland as a whole though is approaching a real fork in the road. The approach to development in this city over the next few years is going to define whether we continue to drop in the sphere of national importance or instead give ourselves a fighters chance to compete, we are not a megalopolis or a booming sun belt city, so when we do stupid stuff like this it infuriates me as its so self defeating and if this becomes the path we continue on we are in deep trouble. I can't believe the audacity of HSG to ask for public assistance for a project which plans to dump another 500k sq feet of office space and another 300k of retail into a stagnant market. Thankfully I sense a lot of people in local government are as bitter about this as I am, and you can channel that anger the right way. This circus with the Browns has taken up far too much focus and when it is put to bed it should allow full attention to go to the likes of the Gateway District, the river and lakefront (getting rid of Burke), actually putting more focus into filling in the Warehouse District lots and so on, but we need to proactive from the second they say cheerio. And whilst I'm thumping my keyboard, tell them to get stuffed when they come begging for stadium maintenance and improvement cash.

Its pure horse crap, but I gotta give them credit in some sense for their persistence. I feel like the simpsons episode where the kids nag homer incessantly to take them to mount splashmore and he eventually just gives into them for an easy life. Thats how I'm starting to feel, as much as I despise this project and hate how much it could hurt the region. I'm sick of them, they've worn me down. Its clear they want no part of the city and even if the Governor puts the skids to this (as he should) I am doubting they will come back. Bibb and Ronayne are 100% right in my eyes however to fight the corner and remain diplomatic, if in the end its gets built with no county or city money and more of their own then I suppose it could be worse. And the second this nonsense is over they need to redirect their focus and start putting the pieces together for a Gateway District development which will blow this absolute joke of a project out of the water.

My perception of what Thunder Bay may have been is nothing like those photos. Looks like a blighted small town somewhere in the Plains or off route 66.

Man HSG are really digging in their heels the last week or two about falling back to the Lakefront option. If this fails its coming across like they'll do anything to avoid the status quo.

Wondering if someone can clarify. Are all of the lots and garages I've included in the highlighted red area either owned by public bodies like the city or country or owned by the teams, their owners or their various arms length development companies? Same with the yellow, although I find those to be a little more detatched.

Breeze adding five new routes too, to Daytona Beach, Fort Lauderdale, Jacksonville, West Palm Beach and Wilmington, NC. I guess my dream of one strong centralized airport for Northeast Ohio is fading further and further into obscurity. CAK is now holding its own for low cost leisure market stuff and is hanging in there too with American and United. Could see a New York route or Delta returning in future also

The way I read the comments last week by HSG is that its gotten personal and things look completely fractured with the city and thats not even a plan B at this point. I hope I'm wrong, but I think its more likely they come back with a site in an adjacent county or the Brook Park plan is stripped back at this point if the current proposal doesn't make it. Both Haslam and Jenkins said they are putting all their efforts toward building an enclosed stadium in Brook Park, and team officials said talks of renovating the current stadium are in the past. Jenkins said talks to renovate the current stadium have stalled.

Public Square has been enhanced so much in my view by the addition of this building closing it in.

Reading the replies to any story concerning this on social media now has turned me into such a condescending, smug prick and I'm not even ashamed to say it anymore. The vast majority of the general public have no understanding about the dynamics of this, the economic environment, funding, the demographics of Northeast Ohio, they just don't have a clue. I'm glad guys like Chris Ronayne have been resilient enough to blank out that sort of noise and give in.

It reeks of Jimmy, but in the 5th round? F*ck it, no loss if he doesn't pan out. I'll cut him some slack on this one. I was actually more annoyed they didn't stick with Hunter and traded down for an interior lineman at #'5. Reminded me of that draft under Eric Mangini and then when they traded out of Julio Jones for more mediocrity. I think I am just scarred from a history of trading out of top spots and wasting mountains of picks, although with the analytics obsession I am far from convinced a lot of these will pan out. Its went too far one way for me.

Would like to thank the admin for merging my old and new accounts on here! Was a pleasant surprise. Gotta admit I'd stopped using my real email account on non professional/personal stuff like forums, not because I want to post slanderous comments or troll people behind a fake ID and get away with it, but I've had my stuff leaked in data breaches before and also ended up with my personal email where I want important things getting bombarded with spam and phishing crap so would rather just keep things separate, but have since learned my lesson not to use throw away stuff and have an e-mail address solely for the other things now!

It's always baffled me the lack of TVs in the concourses under the stands, quite annoying when you want a drink or food during the game. Even most minor league stadiums have those!

Love this project. Excited to see what sort of tenants they can attract.

The article doesn't really go into detail about the purpose of the meeting beyond speculating about the upkeep of both venues really but I can see one of the fallouts of the Browns being confirmed at Brook Park would be the city and even county support doubling down on developing the lots and garages around the Gateway venues. I'm sure Blitzer has the option acquire a further stake in the Guardians next year too. This is pretty much unfolding in Atlanta just now. They are building a development on empty lots next to the Mercedes Benz Stadium and State Farm Arena called Centennial Yards with Arthur Blank who owns the Falcons and the MLS team and Tony Resler who owns the Hawks as two of the main investors, and a lot of the initial premise of the development was to position it as a response to the Braves battery development they built after leaving Downtown Atlanta out in suburbs. Wouldn't rule out a similar outcome here. You can see shades of Blitzer and Gilbert being able to work together with the COSM venues. This is all conjecture obviously but given the deteriorating relations between the city and the Browns I also can see an element of saying f*ck you we will give the other two teams financial backing and stifle what you're doing there at the same time. It's an interesting side story for sure.

Kelce meatheads more in touch with the situation than some elected officials are. Kinda scary actually!

They will get one Big 10 championship every 10-15 years if they're lucky nevermind a Superbowl. Maybe Ohio State plays a game there once a decade or something too or the Bills play a home game once in a while because of bad snow in Buffalo. A couple of concerts a year. It'll barely do anymore events than the current place, and non football events such as conferences, parties weddings etc in the suites will drop massively because of the s**tty location IMO.

Hes not even giving the relocation posturing to force their hands in Columbus, hes actually telling them hes willing to stay on the lakefront. If the decision makers still force through this bond issue after him coming out and stating he is willing to take a much more fiscally responsible deal this then God help us all.