snakebite

Thanks for the updates. I really like St. Louis and feel it gets an unfair rap in the national media, it also saddens me how a lot of the big companies have abandoned Downtown. It has some great walkable neighborhoods and a really rich history, I can relate to it and find it very similar to Cleveland. Living in KC I used to hear constant St. Louis hate (which is laughable as KC itself is very unimpressive) Its my type of city over these places that have popped up overnight like Nashville, Austin etc. The business community there need to really start supporting the developments Downtown and come back from the suburbs. Hopefully stuff like this helps.

I see the Commanders new stadium is likely to be a dome. That "furthest east" dome argument literally dead already, as if it wasn't some fake news propaganda to begin. We are going to be stuck in no man's land if this happens. Indy, Detroit and Minneapolis will get the big stuff through the winter and in the summer Pittsburgh and Cincinnati will get them with outdoor Downtown stadiums. Although I'm half waiting for the Bengals to spitefully ask for their suburban dome now too just because. I'd have more respect for these politicians railroading this through if they just openly said they have been bribed to support this. There is no logical argument whatsoever for this project with the use of public funds.

Jimmy's mindset is I might be dead in 10 years, I'm not waiting for that. Thats what it boils down to.

Its really cringeworthy watching the continual begging and lies for the county cash. Absolutely shameless.

Just finished up watching that. Regardless what happens in the end Chris Ronayne has come out of this very well in my eyes. We are lucky to have him. Listening to him felt like he reads this forum ha.

I think they see the airport and it's surrounding hotels, parking etc as more of a hindrance than a help. They'll sell it as a positive but deep down the current design suggests otherwise to me.

When St. Louis was attempting to keep the Rams with their riverfront Stadium plan, it was also designed to be flexible for soccer and smaller attended events which allowed the upper decks on each sideline if I remember being blocked out (can't readily find renderings). Atlanta is the same although indoors and obviously more glossy than anything that would ever be built here. That is something I feel should be pitched on the lakefront plan as the women's stadium idea just now seems to be more or less ignoring a men's team. I also just don't see the soccer experience being optimum at a suburban site nor in a dome; Indy tried it and it fell on its ass. It's a guaranteed 17 competitive home games (based on 2024 USL Championship format) largely through the NFL off-season and a market easily capable of drawing average attendance of five figures at the right location. I wouldn't even care if Jimmy owned the team if it was on the lakefront. I believe we shouldn't turn our nose up at minor league sports if the situation is right, maximizes use of our facilities and brings foot traffic that otherwise wouldn't be there.

Are there no journalists worth a f*ck or with the guts in this town to call out the complete fake news bulls**t that is constantly peddled about all these extra events they claim they will get in the dome? The scary thing is there are hordes of braindead morons on social media who truly believe this.

The Browns envelope district.

Correct. Starbucks are a known commodity and as large as they are now they generally do not place their stores in rundown areas, whether urban or suburban. The demographics of their customers are far higher than the other mega chains. I am not a particular fan of the drive thru aspect nor Starbucks in general, infact their coffee sucks in my opinion, but when I see a Starbucks in an urban area I generally think of it as being relatively vibrant with steady foot traffic and the attraction for many is the vibe within their stores as much as anything. If all we can have is smaller independent businesses we are unwittingly making the area less adaptable and at risk of vacancies and difficulty in leasing and regenerating when various economic and development cycles occur. Infact, I think OTR in Cincinnati somewhat suffers from having next to no chains. There needs to some give and take in amongst the snobbery and stubbornness.

Nonsense to have a blanket ban of chains. Chains become chains for a reason and often that is because a small business became popular and grew. The chains coming in however should be reflective of the areas character and demographics and which fill gaps in its offering. A fast casual like a Chipotle is absolutely a fit in Ohio City where as a KFC or something obviously isn't.

The funny thing to me is I would imagine demand and the market rate for lakefront development, whether it be luxury apartments, a high end hotel, class A office space would generate much greater revenue than any of the mixed used stuff at Brook Park. That's the whole premise of this isn't it? Lining the Haslam pockets Generating more revenue for the team. You could really charge a pretty penny for medium to high rise development in those spots. I still feel strongly this will go ahead with perhaps a redesigned downsizing of the stadium plan and nothing but parking.

Some good points, I would agree if you take public transport out of the equation which is the better option. I mean that site personally is not my cup of tea either, its still in the suburbs and in a small municipality which I would heavily question if it could provide adequate funding for this but as far as demographics, surrounding uses etc theres no question which stacks up better if you're just doing straight up suburb v suburb. A site like Independence though because of containing more immediate competition and actually having basic sidewalks on its periphery would be a bigger risk to their plans to control every bit of revenue, even if its just some chain crap on individual parcel plots. I think this shows its also not merely just an anti-urban mindset, Haslam after all did develop Astor Park in Columbus. Its simply about controlling and squeezing every last cent whether its a Lakefront site or one in Independence. He sees both of those as having adjacent threats and ultimately that is part of Brook Park's undoing because it just really is not an appealing place without an NFL stadium and thus it has major questions about its sustainability. They've been so determined to prevent anything interfering with their theme park that they have forgotten theres a reason in the first instance that it is just not a desirable place otherwise. They've cut their nose off to spite their face, they didn't pick Downtown or even a decent suburb. They picked an isolated pretty s**t area thinking they could create this walled off palace with no competition and now they're reaping the consequences of that decision at this time which is a stalemate in paying for the sham.

Man the structure of soccer is so frickin clunky in this country and we are not getting into the MLS consideration. The USL should be our prime target.

😂 Oh yeah, the authenticity of the dogpound, in the soulless, sanitised, corporate world of modern NFL stadiums, they are all for the average joe huh. F*ck me. Sadly though there are some people dumb enough to lap that absolute tripe right up.

I think the revenue projections are potentially a tad optimistic. Operators might squeeze their payout odds a bit more to make up for the additional tax which then potentially drives people to offshore books or out of state.

Quite right, it should have been a Qdoba.

What an embarrassment. Thank God the new stadium will have Superbowls and Taylor Swift concerts or we would have nothing.

Very concerning when I can write more accuracies on the back of a postage stamp about this project than very well paid public officials.

I gotta be honest, regardless of local difficulties in specific markets and bending cities over a barrell to push leverage in funding, I don't see any relocation in the NFL for a while yet. The NFL wants stability, they don't want to go through the whole LA thing again which has had its fair share of problems, whether its the Rams and the league being sued or the Chargers or Raiders struggling to build fanbases. They don't want owners fighting over market share and at each other's throats. Even if some big private money from Austin or something offers a team a palace of a stadium, theres so many intricate factors which mean something like that is probably not going to happen. Theres more chance of expansion than relocation at this juncture IMO.

Think they are partially driving a hard bargain because of the Browns wanting the new build dome? I don't see a scenario where one team gets more than the other in a monetary sense from the state. Its all too close together.

I think at the levels of Trump, Vance (even if hes from Ohio) etc they are more concerned with the national outlook and that is selling that US Steel is still American owned and operated, thats been a big schtick of the Trump regime, bringing American entities back under domestic ownership as opposed to the Far East or whatever, rightly or wrongly. I don't think they are too bothered whether the operational HQ is in Cleveland or Pittsburgh. Thats more for state or local levels. Maybe if it was the rust belt losing out to the sun belt or something they would get involved (I still doubt it), as they've rode the coat tails somewhat on gaining votes in areas that have suffered deindustrialization at the expense of new money cities, but to big time politicians in DC, whats the difference between CLE and PGH? I am being somewhat facetious but might as well be the same place such is the level of ignorance and disinterest of some.

Yeah I agree. I don't even think its anyones fault at a local level as such if this happens in terms of dropping the ball or whatever. They're based in a prominent tower Downtown and the local political leaders are fighting like hell for that part of town as we know recently. If they were HQ'd in some dreary office park off Rockside Rd or whatever then I'd say what do you expect basing out of there versus the tallest building in Downtown Pittsburgh, but its a much bigger issue outwith local politics or business.

For all the bluster and preacher like shouting of the CEO, the threat of the HQ moving is pretty real I feel as outlined by other posters, with or without him. US Steel is such a karat for Cliffs that they would happily move the HQ in order to acquire it. If thats something they need to concede to get what they want, then so be it. Often with Fortune 500 level companies many of the top execs have little ties to the home market anyway, they move where their career takes them, so whats it to these people to move 130 miles away to Pittsburgh? I don't want to jump the gun and write an obituary like its a formality as this could go several ways just now, but if lets say the takeover happens this year and is approved by 2027 or something, ten years on from that I would 100% bet the headcount and average earnings of those working at 200 Public Square is significantly reduced from today. No matter how politicians or the new consolidated company sell it publicly if the merger occurs anyone who follows this stuff knows how the losing market in these deals often comes out. And yet we are being asked to subidize another 500k sq feet of office space at Brook Park. Just madness.

I can't imagine the Board of Directors or Upper Management at Cliffs are happy about their CEO publicly acting like a raving lunatic. I suspect he will be long gone before this reaches a conclusion.